JD Drew

[Emmz]

The contract was for 5 seasons. You dissect all 5 seasons. Overall' date=' he failed expectations 60% of the time. And even when he exceeded them in 2008, he still didnt play 110 games. He effectively stayed healthy and excelled for one season. That's not enough to say he was anything but a disappointment[/quote']

 

1. That wasn't the topic of the current discussion.

 

2. Even if you factor in 2011, he's still above average, and he still earned 80% of his contract value going by WAR converted to dollars.

[Emmz]

You guys are delusional. "But he had a .825OPS over his contract!!!" Seriously' date=' the fact that his average is that low, yet he had 2 seasons where it was over .900 is telling. He was a complete bust 60% of the time.[/quote']

 

Lol, you want to judge him by his entire contract, but yet you don't want to discuss the average of the contract? You're a f***ing hypocrite.

[redsoxrules]

1. That wasn't the topic of the current discussion.

 

2. Even if you factor in 2011, he's still above average, and he still earned 80% of his contract value going by WAR converted to dollars.

 

They dont get it . :dunno:

[Emmz]

Everyone has posted the stats. Can't you read! Or don't you want to? I am not going to repeat what has already been presented. In the final analysis Drew was a mediocre ball player who had one exceptional month.

 

Distorted, cherry-picker stats. This is almost comical how you guys can actually view your argument as rational.

[Emmz]

They dont get it . :dunno:

 

There's no reasoning with Drew haters. Everyone on internet baseball forums knows about the Drew threads, and it's funny because the only people who think Drew sucks or is below average are the same guys who think RBIs are a valid stat.

[SCM33]

Try again ,

 

actually dont , cause you'll come up with an answer that isn't related to what talking about.

 

Actually, the fact that his year by year rankings pretty much show us that he wasnt elite for the position on a year by year basis, which is all I am saying.

 

Why do you get so angry when people talk about JD Drew? I mean, I know you had his avatar (believe it was you) up at one point, so you have some sort of weird allegiance to him.

 

He was a sabremetrics wet dream. He got on base and had pretty good slugging numbers and was also the best defensive RF weve had since Dwight......even if his approach was maddening because he was anti-aggressive even in spots when it called for it.

 

Jacksonian is saying he sucked. I am actually taking the side of "averages" that you and Emmz are taking, and I am saying he was very good.....but Im also playing a little devils advocate and saying he isnt elite based on where he ranked year by year.

 

Again, relax.

[SCM33]

There's no reasoning with Drew haters. Everyone on internet baseball forums knows about the Drew threads' date=' and it's funny because the only people who think Drew sucks or is below average are the same guys who think RBIs are a valid stat.[/quote']

 

I DIDNT SAY HE SUCKED!

 

So I hope thats not directed at me.

[Emmz]

Us being unrelaxed is your delusion, sorry. I'm discussing, not ranting. I'm making logical arguments, and your side is spewing foolish nonsense. If you want to factor in the full 5 years, but don't want to factor in his average OPS in those five years, that's hypocritical. I think I rest my case, whether or not you guys agree, the stats side with me.

[SCM33]

There's no reasoning with Drew haters. Everyone on internet baseball forums knows about the Drew threads' date=' and it's funny because the only people who think Drew sucks or is below average are the same guys who think RBIs are a valid stat.[/quote']

 

Joe Carter should be in the HOF, because in a 12 year span....he had over 100 RBIS 10 times and he averaged 107 RBIs a per year for his career. Who cares that he only got on base at a .306 OB% for his career.

 

Joe Carter......the ultimate defense about why the RBI is overrated.

[Emmz]

Actually, the fact that his year by year rankings pretty much show us that he wasnt elite for the position on a year by year basis, which is all I am saying.

 

Why do you get so angry when people talk about JD Drew? I mean, I know you had his avatar (believe it was you) up at one point, so you have some sort of weird allegiance to him.

 

He was a sabremetrics wet dream. He got on base and had pretty good slugging numbers and was also the best defensive RF weve had since Dwight......even if his approach was maddening because he was anti-aggressive even in spots when it called for it.

 

Jacksonian is saying he sucked. I am actually taking the side of "averages" that you and Emmz are taking, and I am saying he was very good.....but Im also playing a little devils advocate and saying he isnt elite based on where he ranked year by year.

 

Again, relax.

 

No one's mad, well I'm not. I'm discussing. I'm making sound, logical arguments. My opponent not so much. He wasn't just a sabermetrics wet dream, he was a normal stats wet dream, as are most sabermetric wet dreams.

 

He was one of the best RF from 2007 to now, and one of the most underrated players in baseball.

[SCM33]

Us being unrelaxed is your delusion' date=' sorry. I'm discussing, not ranting. I'm making logical arguments, and your side is spewing foolish nonsense. If you want to factor in the full 5 years, but don't want to factor in his average OPS in those five years, that's hypocritical. I think I rest my case, whether or not you guys agree, the stats side with me.[/quote']

 

The JD Drew argument is always extreme one way or the other.

 

Each side has their reasons to dislike him, or love him. Like I said though, I am indifferent. I am not sad to see him go....but if he had a season left its not like Id be pissed. I dont really care. All I care about is getting production out of RF this year.

[Emmz]

Joe Carter should be in the HOF, because in a 12 year span....he had over 100 RBIS 10 times and he averaged 107 RBIs a per year for his career. Who cares that he only got on base at a .306 OB% for his career.

 

Joe Carter......the ultimate defense about why the RBI is overrated.

 

RBIs aren't overrated, they're useless. Joe Carter was good, and put up HOF numbers, but RBIs isn't why.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol' date=' you want to judge him by his entire contract, but yet you don't want to discuss the average of the contract? You're a f***ing hypocrite.[/quote']

 

I judge him by the fact that in 3 of his 5 yrs, he was a bust and in 2 of his 5 yrs he was as advertised. How is that not a bust?

[jacksonianmarch]

1. That wasn't the topic of the current discussion.

 

2. Even if you factor in 2011, he's still above average, and he still earned 80% of his contract value going by WAR converted to dollars.

 

WAR converted to dollars is the most overrated stat of all time. Going by that, Lackey was worth $7 mil this yr. Does that sound right to you?

[User Name]

Drew was a good player, and suffers from what i call "The Theo effect". No need to bash him, no need to defend him.

 

He wasn't as good as the stats show because of a lack of playing time, but not as bad as fans' rhetoric may indicate because when healthy, he was a force for most of his contract.

[SCM33]

Drew was a good player, and suffers from what i call "The Theo effect". No need to bash him, no need to defend him.

 

He wasn't as good as the stats show because of a lack of playing time, but not as bad as fans' rhetoric may indicate because when healthy, he was a force for most of his contract.

 

Which is why I said you have people who either love him, or hate him based on what they believe is important in terms of evaluating a player.

[jacksonianmarch]

Okay, let me break it down for you so you can understand it....

 

What did you expect from him coming in?

 

He was paid like a .900OPS player at the time. The expectation should have been that he average near .900 for the 5 yrs. Maybe you say, okay, he'll start out as a .900OPS player then fall gracefully in his final 2 seasons. But he started out sub .800, then met expectations twice, then slipped significantly in 2010 and fell off a cliff in 2011. Excusing the last 2 seasons of a 5 yr contract is absolutely assinine.

[jacksonianmarch]

Drew was a good player, and suffers from what i call "The Theo effect". No need to bash him, no need to defend him.

 

He wasn't as good as the stats show because of a lack of playing time, but not as bad as fans' rhetoric may indicate because when healthy, he was a force for most of his contract.

 

Apparently 40% is what constitutes "most" on here

[jung]

He was a very good player. He just was never on the field enough to matter except in a few rare and well recorded instances. I think a good many people are indifferent to him now because we just got used to him not being there. Every once in awhile we would check in to see which hangnail was bothering him this time or which toenail was bruised beyond his ability to stem the tide of pain but beyond that ya' nearly fell over in surprise if you saw him trotting out to right field in the first inning. For others his clear lack of "toughness" made him a real lightning rod I think in part because this was nothing new. Drew was known for being soft and I think many right angled their anger at the FO right back at Drew for having ignored that well documented fact.

 

Hard to argue with his output "when he did play". However it probably would not take more than an averaging of his income over total number of at bats or games played or any other measure of units or time and not want to throw up. Just think how bad it would be if the Sox had not won one during his stay here remembering that he did suddenly find a way to contribute down the stretch run and into the post season that year.

[Emmz]

Beckpedaling Jacko is backpedaling.

[jacksonianmarch]

Beckpedaling Jacko is backpedaling.

 

Wait, what? You mustnt know what the term backpedaling is. You must just be making s*** up, as usual, to defend your defenseless posts.

[User Name]

Attack the posts, not the posters.

 

Peace please.

[Emmz]

Wait' date=' what? You mustnt know what the term backpedaling is. You must just be making s*** up, as usual, to defend your defenseless posts.[/quote']

 

You were cherrypicking stats, then you realize you're a hypocrite and find a different way to spin it.

 

This is a new breed of Drew hate. It was understandable when he was hated for not playing a lot of time, but to hate on the time he did play, that's different, and kind of hard to take seriously. That's about where this has been going.

[Emmz]

WAR converted to dollars is the most overrated stat of all time. Going by that' date=' Lackey was worth $7 mil this yr. Does that sound right to you?[/quote']

 

 

Because he got a bunch of wins, there's flaws in every stat, this is one of the flaws, try to find a good player example, and get back to me.

[SCM33]

He was a very good player. He just was never on the field enough to matter except in a few rare and well recorded instances. I think a good many people are indifferent to him now because we just got used to him not being there. Every once in awhile we would check in to see which hangnail was bothering him this time or which toenail was bruised beyond his ability to stem the tide of pain but beyond that ya' nearly fell over in surprise if you saw him trotting out to right field in the first inning. For others his clear lack of "toughness" made him a real lightning rod I think in part because this was nothing new. Drew was known for being soft and I think many right angled their anger at the FO right back at Drew for having ignored that well documented fact.

 

Hard to argue with his output "when he did play". However it probably would not take more than an averaging of his income over total number of at bats or games played or any other measure of units or time and not want to throw up. Just think how bad it would be if the Sox had not won one during his stay here remembering that he did suddenly find a way to contribute down the stretch run and into the post season that year.

 

Well said.

 

I never expected anything from him, because I never knew if hed be out there. When he was, he was pretty productive.

 

Again, I am not sad hes gone, I will not miss him....but I am not joyous hes gone either. He was just another player to me. I just want production out of the RF position.

 

A comparison about JD Drew to another player (whom I actually LOVED while he was in Boston). Jose Canseco in 1995 and 1996 (OPS of .933 and .989). I loved that guy when he was in Boston, but everytime I turned on the game....I half expected for him to be out of the lineup....eventually, it was shocking to see his name in the lineup. I think that happened with Drew, but over a longer period of time until some fans just got tired of it and forgot about him.

[jacksonianmarch]

I was pointing out that for 60% of his contract, he was a below average player. If you look at the numbers, his actual production, you know, the objective portion here, he was below average in 3 of his 5 years. That is indisputable. How can you then defend his on field production when 60% of his seasons in Boston were below average? It is mind boggling

[User Name]

This is really annoying. Please stop.

[jacksonianmarch]

 

Because he got a bunch of wins, there's flaws in every stat, this is one of the flaws, try to find a good player example, and get back to me.

 

Completely and totally wrong. Wins have no part in the equation.

 

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2010/2/14/1308722/viva-el-war-pitchers-part-1

[Emmz]

Drew was a good player, and suffers from what i call "The Theo effect". No need to bash him, no need to defend him.

 

He wasn't as good as the stats show because of a lack of playing time, but not as bad as fans' rhetoric may indicate because when healthy, he was a force for most of his contract.

 

100% agree with this. Even with how good he played when he was healthy, I do realize that it doesn't mean that all those missed games disappear. I get that.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's like banging your head against a wall. So now, if you suck 60% of the time, you still played well. It's mindboggling