The Future of Fenway Park

[mvp 78]

Oh, it won't. I won't be shedding a tear when it finally happens though. For such a small stadium, there are way too many horrible seats.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

That s*** is history. Therefore don't f*** with it. If people are worried about being comfortable at the park then stay your ass at home and watch from the couch.

[seabeachfred]

I promised myself that I wouldn't post on Christmas but this topic just whets my appetite to no end. I hope the Red Sox keep playing at Fenway at least until the Lord calls me home. It was love at first site for me, and the second time I saw it in 2000 I became a Red Sox fan and will be one through all eternity. BTW, my wife bought me six Christmas presents, four of which are Red Sox gifts. No, Fenway is a great ballpark, a great place to watch a game in my opinion. The whole neighborhood around the ballpark along with Fenway itself is just an emotional high. For those of you who are overweight, lose a few pounds if you can and adjust. When Fenway is gone a lot of what makes baseball so eternal is gone too.

[mvp 78]

I'm a 34" waist. RF seats that face CF are stupid. Sitting there is an automatic neck ache. Seats where the pitcher's mound, 2nd base, or other parts of the field are blocked out of view due to structural design is just plain stupid. Girth isn't an issue. The stadium is just outdated.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

The stadium is about to be 100 years old. You have to expect minor problems like that. When people go to Fenway they go for the tradition, the atmosphere, the fans. I've never in my life heard someone say "I want to go to Fenway so I can be comfortable". Fenway is valuable to the Sox and possible the city of Boston as well. Like I said earlier if you want comfort then stay at home.

[mvp 78]

RSFFL, google fenway obstructed view seats. When you live on the other side of the country, I understand why someone wouldn't care. When it's your neighborhood baseball park, it's more of an issue.

 

I love Fenway as much as anyone else. I still remember my first game in 85. I used to walk to the stadium and pick up gameday tickets on a whim. It won't happen tomorrow, but local fans will be better off when a new stadium with more seats and better views is constructed.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I've seen the obstructed view seats. It's not pleasant but it's not that bad either. You have more say than me because you live there nut like I said I'm not a sucker for being comfortable.

[mvp 78]

RSFFL, you'll have a great visit. Just don't buy RF seats (sections 5, 6, 7).

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Being comfortable seems like a 2nd thought when you are watching at home on TV, but in person it's different. Of course it's a great historical place but when you're paying like 50 dollars to have your knees touching the person's head in front of you and your balls start to go numb because your legs have been squished together for 3 hours and your neck is all contorted so you can see the field and 30 people have to all stand up so you can go buy a $10 beer every 15 minutes it really starts to suck. "Stay home if you wanna be comfortable" just doesn't cut it. It's 2012 basically, times change. Build a new stadium identical to Fenway but larger and with better views and just keep Fenway as a Red Sox museum.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

You make a valid point but it doesn't change my perspective on the topic. When I go to Fenway I'll see if for myself but IMO if peple aren't comfortable being at Fenway then you shouldn't go. If the seats sucks so bad then why do people continue to go to Fenway. That park is legendary. We'll eventually need a new stadium but let this ride until it collapse.

[SoxSport]

I remember going to a game in the Harrington era, where there was pigeon crap all over the grandstand seats, and fans were tipping ushers to wipe clean their seats--which were around 25 bucks at the time. Since then, things have changed quite a bit. The place is clean again, like the Yawkey days, but the ticket prices are sky high.

As for the width of the seats, in the old days, the bleachers had just bench seats, so seat width wasn't a problem out there. In the grandstand, I never heard any complaints about the size of the seats then, but maybe they're smaller these days. Or maybe the fans are wider. LOL.

[jung]

Fenway suits the needs of this particular ownership group just fine. Fenway is safe as long as JH is around. However once he sells out the next ownership group will very likely move on. I love Fenway. Have been a season ticket holder there and would not trade the experience of a game at Fenway. However for any ownership group intend on both generating revenue and championships, Fenway is now a liability.

 

The whole monster seat thing is a joke and is yet another bit of evidence of this ownership group and its tendency to lean toward marketing the Sox brand and Fenway park. Paying for monster seats so you can watch the left fielder disappear says those seats are not about baseball. They are about something else entirely. Would you tolerate having no live view of plays back at the left field wall for anything more than a single game just for the heck of it?

 

I just hope the next guys that take a swing at Sox ownership and the whole issue of a new park build one the right way. Seen to many instances where it was done wrong. It is something you live with for 25 years at at minimum so doing it wrong can really suck.

[mvp 78]

Jung, you really hit the nail on the head. The Monster Seats are a marketing gimmick. I was up there for standing room tickets once. It was awesome for BP, poor for watching a game though. They weren't built for extra revenue, they were built to market Fenway. The new seats they put behind home are really cool though. They've done some great things, but there isn't much meat left on the bone for further expansion.

 

Everything about going to Fenway has changed since the new ownership came on. It's not about baseball anymore, it's about the event of going to Fenway (Sweet Caroline and all the other BS).

[Dojji]

http://jdlong.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/wrecking-ball.jpg

 

Sometimes it's time to let your team come of age. Can't go clinging onto ancient history forever.

[seabeachfred]

Jung, you really hit the nail on the head. The Monster Seats are a marketing gimmick. I was up there for standing room tickets once. It was awesome for BP, poor for watching a game though. They weren't built for extra revenue, they were built to market Fenway. The new seats they put behind home are really cool though. They've done some great things, but there isn't much meat left on the bone for further expansion.

 

Everything about going to Fenway has changed since the new ownership came on. It's not about baseball anymore, it's about the event of going to Fenway (Sweet Caroline and all the other BS).

 

I've read your missives about your reservations about Fenway Park and while my feelings are based on emotional appeal, certainly sitting in right field with no real view of home plate minus a neck sprain is no picnic. I've often wondered if they could tear those seats out during the off season, install new and more comfortable seats, whether that might makes things more palatable for the fans. It is easier for me since I get my tickets through Red Sox Destinations and from a friend who manages a hotel in Boston, but, then, again, sitting in the Coca Cola section in April is a quick ticket to a cold or pneumonia. What I like is to go to the standing room section, get a spot next to a post to lean on and watch the game with some real fans.

 

Again, though, it is an emotional appeal for me. I've mentioned that I might be the oldest dog on this board (71), and I remembered as a kid growing up in Queens how I reveled at going to Ebbets Field to see the real Dodgers play. Ebbets then was what I see in Fenway Park today and Fenway has even more ambiance than the old ballpark of decades ago. It is like I'm transported in time when I go to Fenway. The parallels between the two ball parks, the neighborhood and the fans are uncanny. 700 might be able to add something to it. He told me his dad was an old Brooklyn Dodgers fan, and I'm sure 700 has heard all the stories. Well to me Fenway is like being transported back in time. It's just an emotional high for me.

[Elktonnick]

RSFFL, google fenway obstructed view seats. When you live on the other side of the country, I understand why someone wouldn't care. When it's your neighborhood baseball park, it's more of an issue.

 

I love Fenway as much as anyone else. I still remember my first game in 85. I used to walk to the stadium and pick up gameday tickets on a whim. It won't happen tomorrow, but local fans will be better off when a new stadium with more seats and better views is constructed.

 

I remember my first game in 53. We always sat behind the dugout in reserved grandstands The tickets were three bucks if I remember right. In those days you couldn't drink beer in your seats, not that I was old enough but I remember my father getting a quick beer between innings. The park definitely can't compare with Baltimore or Philly for comfort but it does have a special atmossphere that neither have. If they were to replace Fenway, I don't see how it could be done in today's economic environment and keep in downtown Boston.

[jung]

I've often wondered if they could tear those seats out during the off season, install new and more comfortable seats, whether that might makes things more palatable for the fans.

 

There have been several suggestions made about those seats over the years since JH has owned the team. The only problem is that in each case what has been suggested results in fewer seats and it does not appear there is any interest from ownership in cutting the seat count.

[mvp 78]

I remember my first game in 53. We always sat behind the dugout in reserved grandstands The tickets were three bucks if I remember right. In those days you couldn't drink beer in your seats' date=' not that I was old enough but I remember my father getting a quick beer between innings. The park definitely can't compare with Baltimore or Philly for comfort but it does have a special atmossphere that neither have. If they were to replace Fenway, I don't see how it could be done in today's economic environment and keep in downtown Boston.[/quote']

 

The sites that were proposed on the waterfront are miles closer to downtown and would be easier to access. Could even have parking too! Or does that ruin the charm/hassle of going to Fenway?

[a700hitter]

Again, though, it is an emotional appeal for me. I've mentioned that I might be the oldest dog on this board (71), and I remembered as a kid growing up in Queens how I reveled at going to Ebbets Field to see the real Dodgers play. Ebbets then was what I see in Fenway Park today and Fenway has even more ambiance than the old ballpark of decades ago. It is like I'm transported in time when I go to Fenway. The parallels between the two ball parks, the neighborhood and the fans are uncanny. 700 might be able to add something to it. He told me his dad was an old Brooklyn Dodgers fan, and I'm sure 700 has heard all the stories. Well to me Fenway is like being transported back in time. It's just an emotional high for me.

Fenway prior to it's building up behind home plate was very reminiscent of Ebbetts Field for my dad. The first time I went there with my dad was in the early '70's. It was the closeness of the action and the neighborhood feel, and the walking to a ballpark by the fans.

[mvp 78]

Fenway prior to it's building up behind home plate was very reminiscent of Ebbetts Field for my dad. The first time I went there with my dad was in the early '70's. It was the closeness of the action and the neighborhood feel' date=' and the walking to a ballpark by the fans.[/quote']

It messed with the wind patterns too. As far as the renovations, that was the only poor decision. Can't blame this ownership for that blunder though.

[a700hitter]

It messed with the wind patterns too. As far as the renovations' date=' that was the only poor decision. Can't blame this ownership for that blunder though.[/quote'] i didn't say that it was a blunder, so I wasn't blaming anyone for it. It was just more like Ebbetts Field prior to the building of that structure.

[mvp 78]

i didn't say that it was a blunder' date=' so I wasn't blaming anyone for it. It was just more like Ebbetts Field prior to the building of that structure.[/quote']

 

You didn't say it, but I did. Wasn't referencing you in the post, just the structure.

[Gringo]

Ultimately, it's a matter of when, not if. Fenway won't stand forever. So with that in mind, it is imperative that they get the new ballpark right, from the location, to the design, to the name.

 

As I mentioned before, the worst thing they could do would be to build a replica of Fenway Park and name it Fenway Park. It would do a disservice to the legacy and memory of the original. They should build an entirely different ballpark (while keeping it in a retro stye). No Green Monster, etc., just a whole new ballpark, with a new name. Imagine a waterfront location with the skyline as a backdrop?

 

A Brave New World, indeed.

 

That said, I'm all for getting every last game we can out of Fenway. I love it, warts and all.

[yeszir]

Fenway can should and will last another 20 years, at least. After that, who knows. I'm against a waterfront location....have any of you ever ridden the silver line? Maybe if the team can get the city to upgrade transportation to rail I could see a ballpark on the waterfront, maybe in conjunction with some re-development along that industrial canal between the waterfront/southie.

[seabeachfred]

Fenway prior to it's building up behind home plate was very reminiscent of Ebbetts Field for my dad. The first time I went there with my dad was in the early '70's. It was the closeness of the action and the neighborhood feel' date=' and the walking to a ballpark by the fans.[/quote']

 

Well there you have it 700. I knew there was a parallel between the two ballparks and as I've said it was Fenway Park's ambiance and memories of old that turned me into a Red Sox fan 11years ago. You get off the train at Commonwealth, turn left a block, turn left again and as you go over the RR bridge you see the ballpark--and to me it is a wondrous site. At Ebbets Field you left the Brighton subway, turned left and walked two blocks and on your way the ballpark just stared at you. When you consider the fact that both places were neighborhood parks, that crowds gathered around the places hours before the games, that hawkers were selling their hot dogs, sausages and yearbooks way before game time, that fans were talking baseball and you could get into a conversation at the drop of a hat, that fans of the RedSox and fans of the old Dodgers were the most rabid in baseball, well then you had something special re-given to you decades later.

 

To me there is nothing like a game at Fenway and I'm sure posters here younger than me with no memories of the decade after WW II might roll their eyes hearing my drone on, but today I do not consider the NY Mets or even the LA Dodgers the ancestor to the old Brooklyn team. The closest resemblance to them is the Red Sox and I stand on that.

[Elktonnick]

The sites that were proposed on the waterfront are miles closer to downtown and would be easier to access. Could even have parking too! Or does that ruin the charm/hassle of going to Fenway?

 

Given the mess that was the "big dig" and the economy, are the Mass pols willing to spend the money and the tax credits to subsidize a new Fenway? I just don't see it happening regardless of the site in downtown. I'd be surprised that the political will is there right now. That could change, however if and when the economy rebounds in a big way.

 

BTW there is another Major League park a couple of miles away if BU is willing to part with the old "WigWam" (which will never happened) I saw my first Major League game there. My father took me with his little league team to see the Braves play before they annouced their move to Milwaukee. We were among the 250,000 who saw the Braves play that year.

[mvp 78]

Any new stadium should take zero public dollars. Citizens should not subsidize billionaires more than they already do. I think the days of subsidized ballparks have come and gone.

[Elktonnick]

Any new stadium should take zero public dollars. Citizens should not subsidize billionaires more than they already do. I think the days of subsidized ballparks have come and gone.

 

That may be true. But given the evironmental rules and other regulatory hurdles, I don't see how any major construction of a new stadium which will run hundreds of millions of dolars can be done without government support. I am not a developer but I don't see why the current ownerrship would incur that amount of debt without tax credits and other incentives being thrown into the mix.

[mvp 78]

That's chump change to them. They've spent 1.5B on payroll since they've been here. They aren't the little sisters of the poor. By building a new stadium, it increases the resale value of this team. An extra 10,000 seats does a lot for the bottom line as well.

[Elktonnick]

That's chump change to them. They've spent 1.5B on payroll since they've been here. They aren't the little sisters of the poor. By building a new stadium' date=' it increases the resale value of this team. An extra 10,000 seats does a lot for the bottom line as well.[/quote']

 

 

Easy for you to say. Why don't you think it hasn't been done. The land taking alone will be several hundred million dollars in the city. The total costs could easily run into excess of 50% to 75% of the franchise's value. It simply isn't cost effective. If they wanted to make a capital investment of an additional 600 to 700 million, I think they would buy another undervalued sports enterprise such as they did with Liverpool.