Bring back Coco + Ellsbury2RF

[Dojji]

Personally I think a move to bring Covelli back to Boston has a lot to recommend it. He has certain obvious platoon advantages that would help us. He is a great defensive outfielder. And he would probably be able to insert himself into the lineup on at least a platoon basis easily enough.

 

Against LH:

 

LF Crawford, CF Coco, RF Ellsbury

 

Against RH

 

LF Crawford, CF Ellsbury, RF Reddick

 

Unless Coco gets hot with the stick, and then he gets some starts against RHP.

 

With his defense and speed Coco would be a good addition to Boston's outfield, and it would represent a novel solution to the RF controversy to get a great CF and move Ellsbury over. Certainly Ellsbury has the bat to play a corner outfield position. We would still have both Reddick and Kalish to feature as potential platoon outfielders and hide Coco's bat if he needs it as well, and pushing reddick to improve his plate discipline by threatening his playing time strikes me as a good idea anyway..

 

Most important consideration to me though is Coco's attitude, He was a trooper when he was here, and that doesn't seem to have changed since he left, he was a good team guy in KC and again in Oakland. He was one of the glue guys in the 07 run and I think reintroducing him into the clubhouse would help. And his speed would be a useful asset on the field or off the bench, wherever he winds up playing.

 

In all, there's a lot of points where the signing of Coco Crisp to a 2-3 year deal with no guarantee of a starting position smells like a great idea -- assuming Coco was at all interested in signing that kind of deal.

[Palodios]

You know who else is a great defensive CF?

 

Jacoby Ellsbury. Have you seen JB's defensive numbers in center this year? They're off the charts. Why spend all this money, when you could get similar production from Kalish/Reddick? If this team gets a platoon RHP OF, they can do better offensively than Coco Crisp.

[La Munson]

You know who else is a great defensive CF?

 

Jacoby Ellsbury. Have you seen JB's defensive numbers in center this year? They're off the charts. Why spend all this money, when you could get similar production from Kalish/Reddick? If this team gets a platoon RHP OF, they can do better offensively than Coco Crisp.

 

Comparing Crisp and Reddick's numbers from 2011, they are pretty similar actually, although Reddick would probably have better ones overall had he played all year. Crisp is below average at hitting, who has value in baserunning yeah, but don't we already have that with Crawford and Ellsbury (even Kalish has potential to steal a lot).

 

No point in doing any of it, just start Reddick next year and hope for the best, and if he can't perform, there a few guys on the bench who are capable of playing RF, at least for a little while.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah the only reason I would want Crisp back is if we dished Ellsbury for, ultimately, some elite SP (Felix-esque, even if that requires a 3rd team involved).

 

And I think it would be a terrible move to make Ellsbury flop between CF and RF based on the opponents SP. Players need consistency.

[SoxSport]

Kalish would have been the right fielder this year of he hadn't gotten injured.

In fact, he might have avoided his injury if he had played in Boston instead of Pawtucket.

 

He was ready, for sure. They just had Drew, Cameron and other assorted dead horses ahead

of him in RF.

 

Pencil in Kalish in RF, if he's healthy.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah, my name needs a little more relevance.

[Dojji]

Kalish would have been the right fielder this year of he hadn't gotten injured.

In fact, he might have avoided his injury if he had played in Boston instead of Pawtucket.

 

He was ready, for sure. They just had Drew, Cameron and other assorted dead horses ahead

of him in RF.

 

Pencil in Kalish in RF, if he's healthy.

 

I count on nothing from Kalish until he's proven he puts the injuries behind him.

[VA Sox Fan]

Yeah' date=' my name needs a little more relevance.[/quote']

 

That would be cool for you. But Coco back? Seriously? Can't see it.

[Dojji]

Don't understand the level of confusion here. Coco is only going to be a platoon guy under this plan unless he earns more, and he provides a better veteran option to Reddick than most of what you're going to get conventionally. It improves our defense at 2 positions (CF and RF) and injects some speed onto the bench on days Coco doesn't play. The only downside is that it might hurt Ellsbury's trade value, but I honestly doubt it.

[Spitball]

Don't understand the level of confusion here. Coco is only going to be a platoon guy under this plan unless he earns more' date=' and he provides a better veteran option to Reddick than most of what you're going to get conventionally. It improves our defense at 2 positions (CF and RF) and injects some speed onto the bench on days Coco doesn't play. The only downside is that it might hurt Ellsbury's trade value, but I honestly doubt it.[/quote']

 

I am not sure Ellsbury has the arm for right field. His arm is certainly his least powerful tool.

 

Now, if I was certain he'd be in Boston after 2013, I would be happy to see a move to a corner position. Because center fielders have to cover lots of ground to the left, right, up and back, the position tends to take its toll on legs and knees especially. Their bodies also tend to break down from diving for balls. Three of the best center fielders I witnessed, Fred Lynn, Ken Griffey, and Eric Davis, broke down from injuries. The same can be said for Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Kirby Puckett, and Jim Edmonds.

 

But, I think Scott Boras is evil and Ellsbury will likely be gone in two years...so keep him and he arm in center.

[redsoxrules]

I count on nothing from Kalish until he's proven he puts the injuries behind him.

 

 

Funny how you say that but yet you keep penciling in Lowrie in the Lineup

[Palodios]

Don't understand the level of confusion here. Coco is only going to be a platoon guy under this plan unless he earns more' date=' and he provides a better veteran option to Reddick than most of what you're going to get conventionally. It improves our defense at 2 positions (CF and RF) and injects some speed onto the bench on days Coco doesn't play. The only downside is that it might hurt Ellsbury's trade value, but I honestly doubt it.[/quote']

 

 

Dojji, are you not listening? Crisp is not a fit for a team. Why? Because Reddick is better at everything he does, except for steal.

 

Ellsbury UZR/150 15.7 in CF

 

Coco Crisp UZR/150 -5.5 in CF

 

Reddick UZR/150 18.3 in RF

 

Reddick .280/.327/.457/.784

 

versus RHP .280/.325/.463/.787

 

Crisp .264/.314/.379/.693

 

versus RHP .289/.332/.408/.741

 

Crisp cost 5.25 million in 2011, and possibly will be resigned by the A's.

 

Reddick cost 0.425 million in 2011, and is already on this team. The Red Sox do not need to spend 5+ million on bench players.

[yeszir]

Yeah' date=' my name needs a little more relevance.[/quote']

 

It's not about the puffs?

[SoxSport]

Funny how you say that but yet you keep penciling in Lowrie in the Lineup

 

Yeah, but Kalish is coming back from a neck operation. Pretty serious, though he should be OK.

 

Athletes are like race horses--they keep coming back from injuries.

[Cocos Disciples]

It's not about the puffs?

 

*Cocoa. Get with it.

[SCM33]

A platoon of Coco and Reddick? I guess a 90 win team was not disappointing enough, we are aiming for 85 wins with that platoon.

 

Dojji, you have some pretty bad ideas sometimes.

[Dawgma]

COCO? Have another Beer.

 

Blah!

[seabeachfred]

Coco Crisp??????? Are you kidding me? We went that route back a few years ago when Epstein failed to sign Damon and then muttered we would get someone to make us forget Damon. Well we got Crisp and he did nothing of the sort. A great defensive CF, he was a rotten hitter for three years straight before we traded him to the Royals where he lost his job to a guy named Maier before he got injured. He was nothing special at Oakland either. We need a RH hitting outfielder who plays RF and can hit. Crisp can't and he can't give us the offense if we put him in right, and it is about time we stop trying to move Ellsbury around the field. He is our CF, a damn good one and close to being a superstar. Leave Jacoby where the hell he is....PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

[Brennan]

Fred, what gives? Check your PMs once in awhile brother.

 

 

Oh, and to keep the thread relevant..

 

Coco back and move Ells to right?

 

Right after Lugo returns and we find Eric Gagne.

[Dojji]

C'mon guys, you're not actually thinking about this.

 

Coco is a 2-3 WAR player on his defense alone. And he isn't a terrible hitter for a CF. At the very least he would bring an impressive glove, great speed off the bench, and a switch-hitting bat that hits better from the righthanded side of the plate -- things we could use. Things most teams could use.

 

Who was our centerfielder the last time this team won the World Series? Covelli Loyce Crisp. I don't think his skills have deteriorated perceptably since. But leave it to Sox fans to completely underrate defense as a reason to bring in a position plater -- while at the same time railing on the pitching staff. As usual.

 

Considering some of the drek we're sorting through trying to find an answer in the outfield right now, and our desperate need for some righthanded platoon advantage which Coco's always been good for, this is a better fit than you're letting yourselves think it is.

[mvp 78]

I count on nothing from Kalish until he's proven he puts the injuries behind him.

 

This contradicts your Jed Lowrie crush.

[mvp 78]

Last time the Sox won the series, Coco was being benched for Ellsbury.

[Dojji]

This contradicts your Jed Lowrie crush.

 

Or you could say I've learned my lesson.

 

Besides, anyone who wants to bag on my Lowrie crush, had better be consistent when it comes to Kalish. The injury bug hit him very hard this year and he needs to prove he's on the other side of it. Until he proves he's healthy again, expecting him to be more advanced than he was when he got hurt is asking a lot. He'll take time to get up to speed, and we might see him in Boston in the second half if he puts up a good campaign, but the first half he'll spend getting back up to speed at the AAA level -- if he can in fact accomplish such a thing (no reason he can't, but injuries are fickle beasts, as Lowrie found out)

[Dojji]

Last time the Sox won the series' date=' Coco was being benched for Ellsbury.[/quote']

 

Not until they were through the hotly contested ALCS he wasn't. It was more of a platoon situation, as it was the following year -- which year is still the last time we made any kind of serious playoff run, or even won a round.

 

At the very, very least, Coco represents a significant upgrade over the Darnell McDonalds of the world, and I would be really surprised if he didn't steal a few starts here and there with this outfield alignment, especially with his platoon advantage.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, what gives? Check your PMs once in awhile brother.

 

 

Oh, and to keep the thread relevant..

 

Coco back and move Ells to right?

 

Right after Lugo returns and we find Eric Gagne.

 

I've checked my PM's here and on the other board Brennan. I didn't see any from you. Give me a call and I'll fill you in about my battle with Vic.

[seabeachfred]

Not until they were through the hotly contested ALCS he wasn't. It was more of a platoon situation, as it was the following year -- which year is still the last time we made any kind of serious playoff run, or even won a round.

 

At the very, very least, Coco represents a significant upgrade over the Darnell McDonalds of the world, and I would be really surprised if he didn't steal a few starts here and there with this outfield alignment, especially with his platoon advantage.

 

An upgrade over Darnell McDonald isn't much of an improvement since Darling Darnell sucked in the field, on the basepaths, and at the plate. And for the record, Crisp was not replaced AFTER the 2007 ALCS. Crisp went 0 for 5 in the fifth game of that series, failed twice with runners in scoring position, failed twice to lay down a bunt and was benched before the sixth game of the ALCS and when Ellsbury's name was announced in the starting lineup the crowd went wild. As it was Jacoby started all four games of the WS and came close to being voted the WS MVP. In 2008 Ells played a good deal more than Crisp did.

[v2freak]

C'mon guys, you're not actually thinking about this.

 

Coco is a 2-3 WAR player on his defense alone. And he isn't a terrible hitter for a CF. At the very least he would bring an impressive glove, great speed off the bench, and a switch-hitting bat that hits better from the righthanded side of the plate -- things we could use. Things most teams could use.

 

Who was our centerfielder the last time this team won the World Series? Covelli Loyce Crisp. I don't think his skills have deteriorated perceptably since. But leave it to Sox fans to completely underrate defense as a reason to bring in a position plater -- while at the same time railing on the pitching staff. As usual.

 

Considering some of the drek we're sorting through trying to find an answer in the outfield right now, and our desperate need for some righthanded platoon advantage which Coco's always been good for, this is a better fit than you're letting yourselves think it is.

 

I actually agree with you, but I have a bias. I always liked Crisp, and if he's an affordable acquisition, I'd go for it. At the very least, he is a reliable pinch runner. This is all incumbent on his willingness to accept such a role with the team.