Francona Apparently Leaving Sox

[Cairns_Sox]

If Tito goes there is no way Theo survives this.

[Dojji]

I'm nowhere near as sure as I used to be that Theo SHOULD survive this. This revelation about the clubhouse is a gamechanger.

 

Tito loses the clubhouse. Let me repeat that. TITO, the guy known around the league as one of the best managers at keeping a clubhouse together, and with a longstanding relationship with several of the team's leading players, he loses the clubhouse. If it was a lesser clubouse manager maybe you blame him, but Tito makes his bread and butter keeping the clubhouse loose, and if he can't do his job, it's because he hasn't been given the material to work with. That's on Theo, and it's huge.

 

As for who I'd replace Theo with? Some might find it an odd choice, but I look ti Mike Arbuckle, the Royals' player development guy. He's done a very good job guiding the current wave of extremely highly rated Royals prospects into the big league roster, and you saw some of them come into their own nicely this year -- Moustakas, Hosmer, Salvador Perez, etc. It's the sort of thing we need to be able to do a little better in order to have a complete team. So I'd definitely look there first and see if he was interested.

[example1]

Apparently Tito was leaving regardless of the FO decision. He said the team this year was not as he was expecting (attitude wise)' date=' pitchers drinking in the clubhouse, general bad attitude and he didn't want any more of it. I guess Tito really did lose control of this team. I'm not liking what I'm hearing about the team chemistry. The problem players need to go in my opinion.[/quote']

 

TW-what's the source for this? I hadn't heard about drinking in the clubhouse.

[Dojji]

I have. And according to what I've heard, the primary culprit was a certain Texan mouthbreather. No source though so take it with about a truckload of salt.

 

If it was Lackey that cost us Tito then so help me...

[a700hitter]

Too soon to have real names, isn't it?

 

However, I wouldn't mind if they got John Farrell from Toronto. He's pretty hard nosed.

No Farrell, please!

[Spitball]

Has anyone mentioned Joe Torre? I'm only half kidding.

[example1]

No Farrell' date=' please![/quote']

 

Okay, just for you, just this once, I will not hire John Farrell.

 

...because you asked nice.

[example1]

Has anyone mentioned Joe Torre? I'm only half kidding.

 

I did. I wasn't kidding.

[Dojji]

What I see here are a lot of wild, crazy ideas with no real chance of success, a fair number of former players that have not defeinitely expressed any real interest in managership, and Ken Macha.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

TW-what's the source for this? I hadn't heard about drinking in the clubhouse.

 

It's everywhere.

 

 

 

And I'd love to have Joe Torre. I always liked him even when he was with the Yankees. And imagine the slap in the Yankees face if he becomes out manager and leads us to like 3 WS victories.

[a700hitter]

Ortiz and Youk don't get along with the other players?

I was puzzled by that too. I thought Ortiz got along with everyone including opposing players.

[example1]

I was puzzled by that too. I thought Ortiz got along with everyone including opposing players.

 

Any chance that's part of the problem? I hadn't thought about it before you mentioned it, but this team could benefit from more Russell Martin ("I hate the Red Sox") and less David Ortiz (with A-Rod before a game "hey mang! Great to see you!").

 

The latter reinforces the Sox self-perception that they are part of some exhaulted group of excellent teams. The former invokes a spirit of fighting underdogism, which is what always served this team so well in the past.

[example1]

What I see here are a lot of wild' date=' crazy ideas with no real chance of success, a fair number of former players that have not defeinitely expressed any real interest in managership, and Ken Macha.[/quote']

 

Chances are it is someone totally under the radar. Few would have supposed Terry Francona when he was hired.

 

It will be an extensive interview process.

[a700hitter]

As for who I'd replace Theo with? Some might find it an odd choice, but I look ti Mike Arbuckle, the Royals' player development guy. He's done a very good job guiding the current wave of extremely highly rated Royals prospects into the big league roster, and you saw some of them come into their own nicely this year -- Moustakas, Hosmer, Salvador Perez, etc. It's the sort of thing we need to be able to do a little better in order to have a complete team. So I'd definitely look there first and see if he was interested.

Doji, this is just so Doji. Thanks for the chuckle.

[YAZMAN]

They should hire Walrus to manage.

 

And it's about time the Budweiser Right Field Roof had a Van Halen cover band on a full-time basis.

 

Seriously, anybody but Valentine!!!

[example1]

Doji' date=' this is just so Doji. Thanks for the chuckle.[/quote']

 

 

He's done a nice job guiding this particular group of players through the Royals system. What about the previous groups of Royals players? Seems like it helps to have a sick collection of top picks all entering the system at the same time...

 

Sox won't have that luxary.

 

Next...

[a700hitter]

Any chance that's part of the problem? I hadn't thought about it before you mentioned it, but this team could benefit from more Russell Martin ("I hate the Red Sox") and less David Ortiz (with A-Rod before a game "hey mang! Great to see you!").

 

The latter reinforces the Sox self-perception that they are part of some exhaulted group of excellent teams. The former invokes a spirit of fighting underdogism, which is what always served this team so well in the past.

Make up your mind. Are they difficult personalities or too affable? Either way, I really don't think getting along with others is a problem that needs to be addressed.

[example1]

Make up your mind. Are they difficult personalities or too affable? Either way' date=' I really don't think getting along with others is a problem that needs to be addressed.[/quote']

 

I think we have to separate "they"

 

I think that Youkilis is hard to get along with and not the friendly type to other teams.

 

I think Ortiz is easy to get along with when things are going well, but a huge biatch when things aren't going well and, all things considered, nto a very good leader because of it.

[a700hitter]

Off the top of my head, I would look at:

 

1.Bobby V.

2.Carlton Fisk

3.Jerry Remy

 

No Ken Maccha (guy is an idiot), no Farrell.

[a700hitter]

I think we have to separate "they"

 

I think that Youkilis is hard to get along with and not the friendly type to other teams.

 

I think Ortiz is easy to get along with when things are going well, but a huge biatch when things aren't going well and, all things considered, nto a very good leader because of it.

I don't think player personality is a problem. The Red Sox major issues are:

 

1. Talent - especially pitching

2. Depth- especially pitching

3. Conditioning

 

That's what needs to be addressed.

[Cocos Disciples]

Since I didn't get the opportunity to start Game 163, how about me for GM? I've won a couple fantasy leagues. I also like Pearl Jam.

[yeszir]

Since I didn't get the opportunity to start Game 163' date=' how about me for GM? I've won a couple fantasy leagues. I also like Pearl Jam.[/quote']

 

You did a good job with the Nationals...

[Cocos Disciples]

You did a good job with the Nationals...

 

Hey a .500 record two years after losing 100 games is nothing to scoff at. I have a terrific track record.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Since I didn't get the opportunity to start Game 163' date=' how about me for GM? I've won a couple fantasy leagues. I also like Pearl Jam.[/quote']

 

But Pearl Jam is boring, and 2nd rate to Nirvana(the yankees of grunge).

 

Do you want he Red Sox to be boring and in 2nd place?

[d-money]

So whose out there to replace Francona?I knew Francona was on his way out after the collapse.Someone had to take the hit.

[d-money]

I would like Bobby Valentine as the next skipper but i dont know if he wants to manage in the big leagues.

[Dojji]

 

He's done a nice job guiding this particular group of players through the Royals system. What about the previous groups of Royals players? Seems like it helps to have a sick collection of top picks all entering the system at the same time...

 

Sox won't have that luxary.

 

Next...

 

Let's not forget that first rounders in baseball aren't nearly the same thing as they are in, say, football or hockey. Besides, many of this crop of rookies (guys like Giavotella and Salvador Perez) aren't first rounders, they're guys we could have drafted or signed. I still think Arbuckle is a good candidate for a team that could use to revamp its farm.

[Dojji]

I would like Bobby Valentine as the next skipper but i dont know if he wants to manage in the big leagues.

 

Valentine would be a terrible fit for Boston. He would work best with some small market squad I think. The big leagues have kind of passed him by.

[example1]

"Francona did acknowledge that this Red Sox team had issues that he thought affected its play. He spoke Thursday about a team meeting he called in Toronto in the aftermath of a 14-0 win on Sept. 6.

 

 

"I'm not sure if anybody knew, because there were some things I was worried about," he said. "I think we were spending too much energy on things that weren't putting our best foot forward toward winning. We spent a few minutes in the clubhouse that day, talking about that. There were some things that did concern me.

 

"Teams normally, as the season progresses, there are events that make you care about each other, and this club, it didn't always happen as much as I wanted it to. And I was frustrated by that."

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7038628/terry-francona-boston-red-sox-meet-reveal-status

 

Christ...

 

When I put the details together in my mind, perhaps someone got too sloshed in the clubhouse during the Toronto victory. One way or another this team had too many divisions, between highly paid and not highly paid, starting pitchers and non-starting pitchers, etc.,

 

In a weird way it makes me optimistic. Those things can be stopped. Expectations for players to be NOT DRUNK on game days, and to be in shape during the season. Pretty basic stuff.

 

Remove the cancers from the team.

[d-money]

If u gonna get rid of Francona then how about eating Lackey's contract.The guy blows!!