Management Changes in 2012

[SoxSport]

I've noticed superstar players never have tended to be very good managers, if you notice, it's usually lesser known ones that didn't play every day, Francona, Ron Washington, Bobby Cox, Tony La Russa etc.

 

 

I wouldn't put Francona in the same category as the others. He's only as good as the team he manages. That's his history dating back to the Phillies. And I don't know if he made the majors. He is very close to getting fired--depending on whether they make the playoffs.

 

LaRussa and Cox have earned their stripes. Washington isn't there yet.

[Derikgoulet1995]

I think that we should have tek as a player manager he would defiantly make better descisions

[SoxSport]

I think that we should have tek as a player manager he would defiantly make better descisions

 

Tough to say, since we don't know how much of a leader Tek has been the last couple years in the clubhouse. The media doesn't talk about stuff like that. I think it's evident there hasn't been much leadership among the players. Tek is still wearing the "C" but Pedroia is the obvious leader, if there is any. Maybe that tells you something about the clubhouse.

[La Munson]

I wouldn't put Francona in the same category as the others. He's only as good as the team he manages. That's his history dating back to the Phillies. And I don't know if he made the majors. He is very close to getting fired--depending on whether they make the playoffs.

 

LaRussa and Cox have earned their stripes. Washington isn't there yet.

 

Was more so listing a list of well known managers who didn't play much in the MLB, I wouldn't even put Francona close to the likes of La Russa, Cox, or even Ron Washington.

[Trillz808]

Hi new to this I think alot of this season has fallen down to front office not willing to get us a starting pitcher and to stupid mistakes by tito i feel someone either F/O or Tito will be lookin for a new job if we dont win today and make it to post season lemme know what yall think

[iortiz]

Theo's head is officially in jeopardy.

[redsoxfan3]

As much as I want to put all the blame on Francona, he was only given what he had to work with. You have Lackey playing like s*** all season, Dice-K gets hurt, and Buchholz gets hurt. That only gives us two reliable pitchers. The Bedard pickup was a decent last minute pickup. He should have started Aceves down the stretch, it wouldn't have hurt anything, although it would have taken one our most consistent relievers away from the pen. You really can't blame him for the Bard and Papelbon collapse. Correct me if I am wrong, but they both cost us at least 5 games in September. You really can't just go away from them, especially in the clutch. You can blame him for the decisions, but you can't blame him for the players failing. Look for better management, but if the front office thinks Francona is the best option, then so be it. Just get better players for 2012 and get this team back into the playoffs. We all KNOW we are capable of winning the World Series, we just need to have great offseason pickups and come back on a mission in 2012.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I want somebody fired and I want them fired NOW. Someone needs to go. I don't give a f*** who it is but I want someone to get the boot. This is ********.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Francona is gone. No question about it.

 

Seriously though. Dennis. Eckersley.

 

Give that guy a job. He would be an incredible manager.

[a700hitter]

I like the idea of Fisk. He's as no nonsense as they come. He knows the game and he would demand that it be played the right way. He's a very intimidating presence. No one would mess with him. Heck, when he was a young player the veterans were scared of him and they gave him respect. Surround him with some really good coaches and you will never see this kind of collapse. You'll see a much more professional outfit with a killer instinct.

[Emmz]

Fisk is the type of guy who'd end up breaking the record for ejections.

[Palodios]

As much as I want to put all the blame on Francona' date=' he was only given what he had to work with.[/quote']

 

What he had to work with was a very well built team. Into April/May, he ran his starters into the ground way too early, and everyone wonders why the rotation fell apart. When a coach increases a pitch count by 30 pitches between starts for a pitcher-- like he did for Buch/Dice-k-- they're going to get hurt.

[Emmz]

Tito is the guy who needs to get fired. I'm sorry, but he's the person in management most directly responsible for this collapse. They were his players. Theo just hired them all, and while he should be feeling some of the blame, he is a good GM IMO, and I wouldn't be so quick to fire him.

 

Tito, however, at this point has no redeeming qualities. After this collapse, you have to question his skill as a players manager, which was his only redeeming quality before now. He has always been a horrid game manager, and I think this is the last straw, and I think it's good bye Tito.

 

Thanks for 2004, thanks for 2007, but no thanks for 2011, the biggest regular season collapse in baseball history.

[Emmz]

What he had to work with was a very well built team. Into April/May' date=' he ran his starters into the ground way too early, and everyone wonders why the rotation fell apart. When a coach increases a pitch count by 30 pitches between starts for a pitcher-- like he did for Buch/Dice-k-- they're going to get hurt.[/quote']

 

This team was built to win, our rotation on paper was solid at the very least coming into this season. The lineup was a juggernaut. This is a team that was so good that despite Lackey's bed-s***ing, and Crawford's godawful hitting, was the best team in baseball for most of the year. Had everything gone as planned, this team would have won 100 games and left the Rays in the dust. However, they played like s***, inexplicably, when it mattered most. Our two best pitchers shat the bed like they caught the same bug that Lackey had all season long.

 

Tito is the man most directly responsible for this along with some of the players.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I love Francona but I won't be devastated if he gets fired. Someone has to though after this season. I won't feel bad about it.

[Dojji]

Theo's head is officially in jeopardy.

 

Not quite yet. I think he gets at least one more year to right the ship. It's hard to deny, though, that he's in a certain amount of disgrace this morning, and will have to answer some hard questions to his own bosses.

[Dojji]

I love Francona but I won't be devastated if he gets fired. Someone has to though after this season. I won't feel bad about it.

 

I think your sacrificial lambs are going to be Bogar and Ortiz. The Red Sox ran themselves out of the playoffs, and if there's one material thing you can look at and say, OK, the coaches did that and it hurt us, it's Bogar's job as the 3B coach.

[MANNYHOF24]

Why is it that all of the free agents that the Yankees bring in work, but when Theo opens the pocket book he can never hit it spot on. Is it really harder to preform in Boston then New York?

[jacksonianmarch]

Why is it that all of the free agents that the Yankees bring in work' date=' but when Theo opens the pocket book he can never hit it spot on. Is it really harder to preform in Boston then New York?[/quote']

 

AJ Burnett says hi

[MANNYHOF24]

Also I have finally jumped ship. Tito needs to go. Putting Lavarnway in the 5 hole last night, and then refusing to pinch hit for him in the 8th when he had left handed options is inexcusable. He came up in a huge spot everytime and never came through. Crawford, Drew, Scutaro all should have hit ahead of Lavarnway.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I think your sacrificial lambs are going to be Bogar and Ortiz. The Red Sox ran themselves out of the playoffs' date=' and if there's one material thing you can look at and say, OK, the coaches did that and it hurt us, it's Bogar's job as the 3B coach.[/quote']

 

I mentioned Bogar getting fired earlier in the thread. He should have been gone already. Letting Ortiz walk would be very very stupid, IMO.

[a700hitter]

Fisk is the type of guy who'd end up breaking the record for ejections.

He's not a loud guy or a screamer. He's not much for arguing. He doesn't have to. He's as serious as a heart attack. When he talks, people don't argue with him. He'd intimidate umpires without going over the line.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Also I have finally jumped ship. Tito needs to go. Putting Lavarnway in the 5 hole last night' date=' and then refusing to pinch hit for him in the 8th when he had left handed options is inexcusable. He came up in a huge spot everytime and never came through. Crawford, Drew, Scutaro all should have hit ahead of Lavarnway.[/quote']

 

I like Francona's confidence in players but it pisses me of sometimes. The night before he hit 2 HR so he got stuffed in the 5th spot. Same with Lowrie a couple days ago. He played good for a while and was it cleanup or 5th he was batting? Either way he shouldn't have been in any of those spots. Life needs a rewind button.

[Dojji]

If we had Youkilis on the field neither Lavs nor Lowrie would have been in position to hit 5th. Since we didn't, who else are you going to put there? Scutaro? Reddick?

 

You can't fire the manager for doing things he had no choice about.

[DwightFright]

No one has mentioned it so I will.

'

I'm sick and tired of Bogar being a dumbass giving up free runs and having players like Ortiz and A-God getting thrown out by miles. Get rid of him

Not really sure about the pitching coach Young. It's kind of hard to work with what we have. He's on the lookout.

 

 

But seriously I want Bogar gone this offseason. It better happen

 

If that dumbass had held up Scutaro, we might be playing today.

[SoxSport]

When a GM signs players who underperform, he blames the manager.

 

You don't think he's going to blame himself, do you?

 

It's ass-covering time.

[SoxSport]

If that dumbass had held up Scutaro' date=' we might be playing today.[/quote']

 

We saw a breakdown in fundamentals with this team--especially the last month.

The baserunning was horrible. These guys don't execute simple things well.

Things much cheaper and worse ballplayers do.

 

You have to blame the field management for this. The FO was watching those games, too.

[Reck]

He was probably told he would not be returning to the Red Sox for quite some time. I'm sure.

[jung]

I actually am truly conflicted on Tito. Honestly, nobody has made a recommendation that I think makes sense. If he stays then a number of the assistants have to go.

 

I think Bogar or Young are strong candidates to be gone. Both might be hard to see but one or the other for sure and maybe both.All the conditioning guys have to go.

 

if they do bring Tito back then it has to be conditional on some changes in that clubhouse. If they lay down the law for Tito and he is unwilling to comply, then they will have to part company. However the combination of running a comfy clubhouse and leaving the players to resolve issues without much help (the "they are all professionals" perspective) does not work with this edition of the Sox and many of these guys will be on this team going forward. Crawford is the poster child for this particular issue. Crawford will stay and should stay but he needs help.

 

I don't think Tito has to reinvent himself if he does stay but I would be surprised if upper management and Tito are on the same page. I actually think there is more to media comments that Tito and Theo are not on the same page than anybody inside the Sox has been willing to admit to. In fact I think it goes beyond Theo and it is more of a disconnect between the FO now run by guys that believe in contemporary business practices and Tito in his belief in the player and the player's comfort and responsibility to be ready to play.

 

I have to admit that I have not looked at alternative to Tito but I have heard the general comment that there are not really many good choices right now and when I hear the only names being offered are Eck and Tek, I am inclined to think that maybe there are not many good options right now.

 

Unless he wants to leave I don't see JH dumping Theo. However even there I think JH needs to at least force Theo to define his player personnel process and allow JH to interject changes that he must make as well. In my view, Theo is too reliant on his computerized, numbers based system of evaluation and less inclined to scouting. Hiring what might be considered more contemporary scouting might be a path forward as I don't see Theo suddenly becoming "old school".

[SoxFanForsyth]

We've already got a thread for this.

 

There's a lot of talk about all of that already. Take a look at it, you'll get a lot of different opinions.

 

Well, no you wont. Everyone hates Francona right now.