Management Changes in 2012

[TedWilliams101]

Can Belichick take a summer off?

 

We need structure, discipline, someone who can control the players and get everything out of them. We need a manager and coaching staff that not only teach good, sound fundamentals, but don't settle for less than perfection. If the players are having trouble or slacking, you come down on them hard. Come in earlier, field balls for longer, run laps if they aren't putting in the effort. It's boot camp time. If the players aren't willing to put in that kind of effort, then get rid of them. We need a hard working team that loves to play the game and is willing to give it 150%, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. Youk putting on weight in the offseason is unacceptable, let alone putting on weight mid-season.

 

Now, maybe those aren't all problem on this team. I don't know. All I know is what we all see on the field and what we see is a lack of fundamentals, a lack of passion/effort, and players consistently faltering to pressure.

 

Another thing to think about: A lot people believe that you shouldn't push players to far or put pressure on them, but there's really 2 trains of thought and they are player dependent. Either 1: You keep telling the team to ignore the media, they have the talent, they can do it, no pressure, just do your job, give 150% and we win. or 2: Put as much pressure on the team as you can through out the season, take the players down a peg and squash that ego, toughen them up so that when they do face adversity and pressure when the season is on the line, they are ready for it and know how to handle it. Of course that requires having players that won't completely shutdown if they aren't cuddled. If that is this team, then those guys need to GO.

[iMagic10]

One man: Eck.

[kapsis21]

I think Curt Young has to go. He had success in Oakland, but that was developing young pitchers in a big ballpark. Maybe he has trouble with established pitchers in small ballparks.

 

On offense the Sox are first in runs, on base percentage, and slugging. Tampa Bay is 15th, 14th, and 14th. With pitching, the Sox are 14th in whip, 9th in batting average against, and an unbelievable 29th in quality starts. Tampa Bay is 2nd, 2nd, and 3rd in the same catagories. The problem is pretty clear to me.

 

that is definitely a glaring stat.

Tek has said it time and again, it has to start with pitching and we clearly had nothing coming out from our no 3 4 5 starters 1 game good the next 3-4 bad..

and Beckett and Lester didnt help matters in the month of Sept. they never showed the veteran quality start needed by them. Look at Chris Carpenter now thats an ace. Beckett isnt there.

[iortiz]

Not quite yet. I think he gets at least one more year to right the ship. It's hard to deny' date=' though, that [b']he's in a certain amount of disgrace this morning, and will have to answer some hard questions to his own bosses.[/b]

 

Yup. That's why I said his head is jeopardy..

 

IMO his bosses should run an auditory with a top firm (Deloitte, KPMG, Accenture, etc.) and weight the damage in order to take decisions. Running an Outside-In analysis the numbers are not encouraging for him the last three years. We'll see.

[iortiz]

Theo: "I'm the general manager, so I take more responsibility than anybody".

 

BOSTON -- When Terry Francona's first seven seasons as manager of the Red Sox ended -- be it after a World Series championship, a postseason elimination or a season that didn't include playoffs -- it was always a given he would return.

 

But with season eight ending in the unfathomable way it did, draining everyone in the organization, including Francona, there is at least some uncertainty whether the widely respected manager will be back in Boston's dugout for 2012 and beyond.

 

The club holds options on Francona for 2012 ($4.25 million) and '13 ($4.5 million). Each option comes with a $750,000 buyout.

 

The option must be picked up 10 days after Boston's season ended, which means the deadline is Oct. 8.

 

One thing general manager Theo Epstein wanted to make clear is that nobody in ownership or the front office is making Francona a scapegoat for the team's historically poor September, in which Boston went 7-20 and blew a nine-game lead and didn't make the postseason.

 

That said, every aspect of the organization will be reviewed in the coming days, including the manager. And Francona also must decide whether returning for a ninth season in the pressure-cooker that is Boston is in his best interest.

 

"Tito and I spent some time talking today, just kind of catching up about the season and talking about what the next few days will look like," said Epstein.

 

"We're going to get together -- all of ownership and [president/CEO] Larry [Lucchino] and I and Tito over the next several days and talk about the season and talk about the future, and I think we're less than 24 hours removed from the end of the season, so we need to calm down, get objective, and look at ourselves, look at 2011, look ahead and make the best decisions for everybody."

 

Francona was asked, point blank, if he needed time to assess what his future held and whether he wanted to return.

 

"Theo and I talked today a little bit, and I think we'll continue to talk tomorrow," Francona said. "Maybe it's best today to stay with where we're at. It's still pretty fresh and pretty raw. It's a fair question. I just would rather focus on the other stuff today, if that's OK. It's a fair question."

 

With a 744-552 record, an 8-0 record in the World Series, and five postseason berths, Francona is widely regarded as the best manager in Red Sox history.

 

Was this his most difficult season in Boston?

 

"Only because it's now," Francona said. "It's easy to forget. There's not a whole lot here that isn't trying because everything is so important to people here -- and that's good. But because it's fresh and raw, it seems that way, but there's been a lot of trying moments here. We just fought through them a little bit better [in the past]."

 

The players in the clubhouse backed their manager following Wednesday's elimination defeat, suffered when the club was one strike away from advancing to a one-game playoff against the Rays.

 

"It's not Tito's fault," said Red Sox first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. "He's not on the field playing. You can't blame the manager who has kept an even keel the whole time. That's what he's supposed to do. You want him to show panic and put pressure on us? No. He did his job and us as players just didn't get it done."

 

Francona, from the account of nearly every player in the clubhouse, kept the same even keel he did in other difficult times, such as 2004, when the Sox were down 3-0 in the American League Championship Series and came all the way back to win it all.

 

"I don't think right now there's a reason to point any fingers," said captain Jason Varitek. "We as players didn't get our job done."

 

In the coming days, the front office and Francona will try to figure out why they didn't get the most out of a talented team when it counted most.

 

"I can't answer that question [about Francona's future] without saying that we've already talked about it, [owner] John [Henry], [chairman] Tom [Werner], Larry and I, and nobody blames what happened in September on Tito," Epstein said. "That would be totally irresponsible and totally short-sighted and wouldn't recognize everything he means to the organization and to all our successes, including, at times, in 2011, so we take full responsibility for what happened, all of us."

 

About a month ago, there was speculation that Epstein could emerge as a candidate to go to the Cubs' front office. However, he is still under contract with the Red Sox and the general assumption is that he will return.

 

"I'll throw myself into the same boat with Tito and the coaches. It's just less than 24 hours after the last game," Epstein said. "So we're going to all get together with ownership and discuss everything. I think the process that we're going to take is identifying all the issues, or continue to identify all the issues that need addressing, taking a hard look at ourselves and seeing whether we're the people to address them. And I believe in a lot of people in the organization, including Tito, including myself."

 

"Collectively it was a failure. I'm the general manager, so I take more responsibility than anybody. I don't think we believe in -- I know we don't believe in scapegoats. In particular, no one blames Tito for what happened in September. Look, we all failed collectively. We kind of failed collectively in this one and we have to live with that. We're not going to be pointing the fingers at any one person in particular. We're going to be identifying issues, finding ways to address those issues and in some cases, sure, getting the right people to address those issues. But it's going to be issues-based. There's plenty to fix."

[Cocos Disciples]

Press conference today was very interesting. Mentions of clubhouse issues, direct criticism of Lackey, essentially saying that they've sucked at signing big free agents, poor conditioning, etc.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/09/live_updates_fr_2.html

[SoxSport]

Press conference today was very interesting. Mentions of clubhouse issues, direct criticism of Lackey, essentially saying that they've sucked at signing big free agents, poor conditioning, etc.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2011/09/live_updates_fr_2.html

 

We're to blame... see you next year.

[SoxSport]

that is definitely a glaring stat.

Tek has said it time and again, it has to start with pitching and we clearly had nothing coming out from our no 3 4 5 starters 1 game good the next 3-4 bad..

 

The manager has a history of repeatedly going to the trough with dead horses.

In this case, the damage was monumental.

 

Tito is also quite insensitive to criticism. In fact, he ignores it.

[jung]

While I am repeating myself a bit here I am just saying this with a little more confidence. I think Tito will be back next year as there are simply no good options for one thing. However I do think that there will be less of a cushy clubhouse environment and while initially I thought an issue might be Tito being dragged kicking and screaming to that, I actually think he has figured out that putting all of the responsibility in the hands of the player to act responsibly has not worked out. Tito is very frustrated with this group of players. I thought his frustration was aimed elsewhere but from that press conference today I think his frustration is actually aimed at the players and that he will be much more receptive to running a tougher clubhouse.

[SoxSport]

While I am repeating myself a bit here I am just saying this with a little more confidence. I think Tito will be back next year as there are simply no good options for one thing. However I do think that there will be less of a cushy clubhouse environment and while initially I thought an issue might be Tito being dragged kicking and screaming to that' date=' I actually think he has figured out that putting all of the responsibility in the hands of the player to act responsibly has not worked out. Tito is very frustrated with this group of players. I thought his frustration was aimed elsewhere but from that press conference today I think his frustration is actually aimed at the players and that he will be much more receptive to running a tougher clubhouse.[/quote']

 

Tito is an old dog who can't change his ways. What's needed is a manager who can set a different tone. More fundamentals, more winning intensity. That's not in his personality.

 

My guess is the owners will make a management change--recognizing this. I doubt Epstein is the last word on anything at this point. The news conference accomplished nothing.

[SoxSport]

Yup. That's why I said his head is jeopardy..

 

IMO his bosses should run an auditory with a top firm (Deloitte, KPMG, Accenture, etc.) and weight the damage in order to take decisions. Running an Outside-In analysis the numbers are not encouraging for him the last three years. We'll see.

 

If they take a "circle the wagons" mentality, I doubt they can turn the team around.

[example1]

Tito is an old dog who can't change his ways. What's needed is a manager who can set a different tone. More fundamentals, more winning intensity. That's not in his personality.

 

My guess is the owners will make a management change--recognizing this. I doubt Epstein is the last word on anything at this point. The news conference accomplished nothing.

 

If players don't know fundamentals and intensity by the time they get to the Red Sox, I don't suspect the manager is going to give it to them. I think people are making too much of the role a manager plays. Tito may go as a sacrificial move, he's a figurehead after all. But he's the same guy who won in 04 and 07. The game hasn't changed, the city hasn't hanged. He just had players this year who didn't get it done, and TOO MANY OF THOSE PLAYERS WERE ONES TITO DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT.

 

Could he NOT give Lester the ball? How about Bard? Could he really sit Crawford? Could he stop Ortiz from running into stupid outs at 2nd or his dumbass 3B coach from sending Scutaro with one out in a pivotal game? No, those were all decisions other humans made but Tito gets the blame.

 

Now, I'm okay with them moving on from Tito to placate the pitchforks and the torches and the mobs screaming outside of Fenway. I just don't think it makes that much difference. The next guy might be a loud, beligerant, argumentative cuss, but if he's burdened with the same particular mix of personalities (immensely talented though they may be) then the team might not get much farther. It might do worse. Who knows.

[example1]

Tito is an old dog who can't change his ways. What's needed is a manager who can set a different tone. More fundamentals, more winning intensity. That's not in his personality.

 

My guess is the owners will make a management change--recognizing this. I doubt Epstein is the last word on anything at this point. The news conference accomplished nothing.

 

What was the news conference supposed to accomplish? No decisions have been made. It was less than 24 hours after a horrible, painful, demoralizing loss. Their goal wasn't to have everything righted by the end of the conference. It is a pretty standard post-season wrap-up with the press before the players, coaches, etc., head home for the winter. Not a huge PR move to smooth everything over.

[iortiz]

If they take a "circle the wagons" mentality' date=' I doubt they can turn the team around.[/quote']

 

Yup. But seems like at least Theo is assuming accountability. We'll see how this drama ends.

[SCM33]

Jim Rice for manager.

 

Hes been with the team his whole career and post career.

Hes a hall of fame player.

He is respected and an imposing figure. I doubt Ortiz challenges Rice the way he does Francona.

[iortiz]

If players don't know fundamentals and intensity by the time they get to the Red Sox, I don't suspect the manager is going to give it to them. I think people are making too much of the role a manager plays. Tito may go as a sacrificial move, he's a figurehead after all. But he's the same guy who won in 04 and 07. The game hasn't changed, the city hasn't hanged. He just had players this year who didn't get it done, and TOO MANY OF THOSE PLAYERS WERE ONES TITO DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT.

 

Could he NOT give Lester the ball? How about Bard? Could he really sit Crawford? Could he stop Ortiz from running into stupid outs at 2nd or his dumbass 3B coach from sending Scutaro with one out in a pivotal game? No, those were all decisions other humans made but Tito gets the blame.

 

Now, I'm okay with them moving on from Tito to placate the pitchforks and the torches and the mobs screaming outside of Fenway. I just don't think it makes that much difference. The next guy might be a loud, beligerant, argumentative cuss, but if he's burdened with the same particular mix of personalities (immensely talented though they may be) then the team might not get much farther. It might do worse. Who knows.

 

Things change. And mostly in this globalized world. These days everything change even more rapidly than before. Baseball business is not immune. If you can't realize that, sorry but I don't know In which world you live. Those who adapt better to changing environments, prevail, otherwise die. As simple as that.

 

Our team has changed and the coach has to take the best juice of his players, and make them execute. Tito hasn't done that lately. Stop excuses, please. Tito has showed lately a lack of coaching and discipline in this team. As I said, Theo is the main responsible, but Tito is the second in command in order to charge the failing load. This team won't improve if they don't recognize their issues and take accountability of their KPIs, god or bad.

[a700hitter]

Things change. And mostly in this globalized world. These days everything change even more rapidly than before. Baseball business is not immune. If you can realize that, sorry but I don't know In which world you live. Those who adapt better to changing environments, prevail, otherwise die. As simple as that.

 

Our team has changed and the coach has to take the best juice of his players, and make them execute. Tito hasn't done that lately. Stop excuses, please. Tito has showed lately a lack of coaching and discipline in this team. As I said, Theo is the main responsible, but Tito is the second in command in order to charge the failing load. This team won't improve if they don't recognize their issues and take accountability of their KPIs, god or bad.

The team played poor fundamental ball. You would think that major league players would have mastered all the fundamentals, but that is not true. That's why they have coaches. They are not there to take their batting gloves and elbow pads when they get on base. They are not there just to relay signals from the bench. Most players that I have talked to have told me that no coach ever helped them with hitting or pitching mechanics. They are there to drill the fundamentals, and the manager is responsible for the coaches. Tito is responsible the poor execution of fundamentals.

[jung]

My guess is the owners will make a management change--recognizing this. I doubt Epstein is the last word on anything at this point. The news conference accomplished nothing.

 

Well OK but there doesn't seem to be much out there to look at. Eck,, now Jim Rice. If pickings are so slim that names like that come to mind maybe pickings are really slim.

 

However there should be replacements for coaches because they have performed so poorly. Strength and conditioning coach must be a Good Humor man in the off season as this team was fat, sloppy and done by mid-season. How much of the demise of the starting pitching has been conditioning. Lackey looked out of shape from the opening bell this year. If you think about it Lester never really hit his stride this year and was out-pitched by Beckett who should have been in a transition year looking to supplement the fastball (which has been slowing) with another out pitch. The Buckholtz injury was a stress fracture and I don't know how much conditioning can play into a stress fracture.

[MannybeinManny]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/09/red-sox-francona-expected-to-part-ways-tomorrow.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

He's gone.

[iortiz]

The team played poor fundamental ball. You would think that major league players would have mastered all the fundamentals' date=' but that is not true. That's why they have coaches. They are not there to take their batting gloves and elbow pads when they get on base. They are not there just to relay signals from the bench. Most players that I have talked to have told me that no coach ever helped them with hitting or pitching mechanics. They are there to drill the fundamentals, and the manager is responsible for the coaches. Tito is responsible the poor execution of fundamentals.[/quote']

 

Exactly. I don't know why people try to defend the indefensible even after this disaster. Now results that nobody is responsible. I've seen people even defending Lackey, Crawford, D-K, etc. Unbelievable!.

[jung]

Tito looked so strained at the end and this was the first year that the facade that he always presented to the media cracked. I would not be surprised if he has had it but I don't think it is because he is feeling heat from fans or even the front office as much as he is just plain disgusted. He has guys like Ortiz breaking into his press conferences, guys like Lackey showing him up out on the field (I don't give a damn about Lackey's next day apologies....he is an *******). Further this might be an additional indictment of the way the sox do their business. Tito might see the recent front office moves as resulting in bringing him a bunch of spoiled rotten, overpaid, head cases instead of dedicated ball players that have their heads in the right place. Heck the most level headed of them might be AGons, Mr. "God did it to us" and Mr. "Gee the schedule is tough on me....I am not getting my beauty rest".

 

If Tito could carve even a tiny bit of Pedey off and graft it onto the rest of these clowns with the exception of Ells and Scuts he might have something.

[iortiz]

Well OK but there doesn't seem to be much out there to look at. Eck,, now Jim Rice. If pickings are so slim that names like that come to mind maybe pickings are really slim.

 

However there should be replacements for coaches because they have performed so poorly. Strength and conditioning coach must be a Good Humor man in the off season as this team was fat, sloppy and done by mid-season. How much of the demise of the starting pitching has been conditioning. Lackey looked out of shape from the opening bell this year. If you think about it Lester never really hit his stride this year and was out-pitched by Beckett who should have been in a transition year looking to supplement the fastball (which has been slowing) with another out pitch. The Buckholtz injury was a stress fracture and I don't know how much conditioning can play into a stress fracture.

 

 

I wonder, Who is their boss?

[jung]

Isn't it funny but even in the vaunted days of the Yawkey country club for ball players, it never got close to being anything like this. Expectations were often low and the team played to those expectations. Surely the team often slumped in the second half. In fact I think the term "second half slump" was literally created for the Red Sox of the 50's and 60's. But the whole thing never came crashing down around their ears before.

 

Yea there was the Bucky f***in' Dent year.

 

It took this bunch of geniuses to construct a team with this potential to implode though.

[jung]

I wonder, Who is their boss?

 

John Henry....yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk-yuk

[example1]

How many people here actually WATCHED the press conference today?

 

As time goes on we are going to find out more about what happened to the 2011 Sox.

 

Theo and Tito both spoke in the press conference about the team's 14-0 win in Toronto on September 6th. Both mentioned that as a particularly 'concerning' game, despite the victory. What the f*** happened that game that they found so concerning? The team lost 5 in a row after that.

 

How about rumblings of Beckett, Lester and Lackey forming a 'clique' with Varitek, and other players feeling uncomfortable about it or feeling excluded? This was a clubhouse where Ellsbury was a relative loner, where Youkilis apparently continued to harp on him for training in Arizona last year instead of sitting with the team, even while Ellsbury was having an MVP season and Youk has his thumb up his ass on the bench. (Jackie MacMullen article)

 

How about the comments about a 'lack of conditioning'?

 

There's a clubhouse problem here. We all watched many games this year, but people struggle to identify it. Many of you saw it yourself, correctly calling out the team early on as destined to struggle. But what was it?

 

Tito talked about wishing that his players had defended each other more on the field. They talked about concerns with conditioning.

 

*We had Ortiz bursting into a press conference to complain about a GODDAMN RBI!

*We have Lackey yelling at teammates when they don't make a diving play.

* We have Wakefield complaining about not getting starts over Andrew Miller.

* We have Ortiz calling for Aceves to pitch, undermining his manager.

* We have Lackey yelling when he gets pulled like a bitch.

 

They should let Ortiz walk. Just get rid of him. He's great when things are going well, and a bitch in the face of adversity. In 2004 and 2007 he had bigger dogs behind him. Now he doesn't and I don't think he's a great leader. He has also tested positive for steroids apparently, had two horrendous starts in 2009 and 2010, and had a freakish improvement in hitting against LHP this year. That's suspicious as far as I'm concerned.

 

Undoubtedly, advocating for replacing Ortiz will create concern among other posters, but I'm in favor of it. He's a one man show. They will be able to replace his production, and even if they can only approximate it, getting the right personality in there (even just in an "all hustle youngster") can improve the performance of others. Opening DH gives Youk and Gonzalez the flexability for off days, opens a potential hole for Middlebrooks to come up, opens a hole for a RHH bat, saves some money, and on and on the list goes.

 

Bye bye Tek

 

Bye bye Wake

 

Get your s*** together Lackey, because we're looking to trade you. If you continue being a douchebag we will bench you a la Carl Pavano, even if we can't trade you.

 

Anyone who is acting like they are bigger than this team will get a firm talking to, and then will be benched. You lope out of the box or don't hustle on a double, you will not be playing the rest of the game.

 

This team should re-focus. There are plenty of seemingly great players and decent clubhouse guys to build around on this club, but they need to prioritize the character of the clubhouse above all else.

[example1]

BTW: Don't take my post above to mean I'm advocating for getting rid of Tito. I'm waivering on whether or not that's necessary.

 

The ownership and FO know what they were concerned about in Toronto but wouldn't state it at the press conference. They are the ones who had to deal with all of the above clubhouse problems. If a substantial number of them can be addressed with personnel changes in the lockerroom, then I'm fine with them starting with that. They know the personalities better than I do.

 

Substantial changes need to happen and, as Theo said, some may be painful.

[SCM33]

ALL KINDS OF REPORTS OUT THERE TONIGHT REGARDING FRANCONA.

 

Terry Francona is all done. He will not be fired, but his option will not be picked up.

 

In my opinion, not good enough. He was a lame duck. BLOW THE WHOLE DAMN THING UP!!!!!!