9/27 @ Orioles

[Palodios]

Over the long haul' date=' I see Lavarnway as the primary catcher and a plus defensive backup behind him.[/quote']

 

When was the last time we saw one of those?

 

I sure hope we get to the playofffs-- otherwise, trading Fed-ex for Bedard will have been a big mistake.

[a700hitter]

When was the last time we saw one of those?

 

I sure hope we get to the playofffs-- otherwise, trading Fed-ex for Bedard will have been a big mistake.

If we got Bedard for free, it was a mistake.

[Palodios]

If we got Bedard for free' date=' it was a mistake.[/quote']

 

Bedard has one win for this team. If this team makes it to the playoffs, it will be by one win. He's worth more than nothing atleast

[jung]

Tito' line up card could be very interesting for the next one. "the kid" bats clean up! Just kidding.

[example1]

I just want to make the point that the team the Sox are competing with here is GOOD. People like to spend plenty of time talking about how the Sox can barely beat a team with less payroll, etc., but the fact of the matter is that payroll aside, the Rays are a very, very good team. They have been for a few years.

 

Folks simultaneously bash the Sox as being horrible, unwatchable, a disaster, an embarassment, etc., and then say that they should be built like the team that has the same record after 160 games. Do I think the Sox should have been better at this point? Yep. However, I don't think there's much shame in losing out on a playoff trip to that Rays team. They are very, very talented.

[a700hitter]

Bedard has one win for this team. If this team makes it to the playoffs' date=' it will be by one win. He's worth more than nothing atleast [/quote']Okay, okay... a peanut vendor? The guys at Fenway are awesome. Our pitchers should have their command.

[a700hitter]

I just want to make the point that the team the Sox are competing with here is GOOD. People like to spend plenty of time talking about how the Sox can barely beat a team with less payroll, etc., but the fact of the matter is that payroll aside, the Rays are a very, very good team. They have been for a few years.

 

Folks simultaneously bash the Sox as being horrible, unwatchable, a disaster, an embarassment, etc., and then say that they should be built like the team that has the same record after 160 games. Do I think the Sox should have been better at this point? Yep. However, I don't think there's much shame in losing out on a playoff trip to that Rays team. They are very, very talented.

The fact that Tampa has so much more pitching talent with a much smaller payroll than the Sox is an indictment of your boy.

[Palodios]

I just want to make the point that the team the Sox are competing with here is GOOD. People like to spend plenty of time talking about how the Sox can barely beat a team with less payroll, etc., but the fact of the matter is that payroll aside, the Rays are a very, very good team. They have been for a few years.

 

I don't know about you, but I've enjoyed this last week. Tonight's win was great, and the Sunday night game against NYY was pretty epic. The best part is, they are competing, and they're going into game 162 with a reason to play-- something that the likes of which that the Orioles and Royals' fans probably haven't had since game 50.

[jung]

Rays starting pitching is much better than Sox starting pitching and they are playing more focused as a team. Sox have really not come back from having checked out mentally although the fog does not seem as dense as it was couple weeks ago.

 

Bad starting pitching is debilitating but making errors all over the field just puts teams in a coma. Although it might sound trivial, the way the kid stabilized play behind the plate tonight made a huge difference to my way of thinking. Salty had gotten to the point where he could not even receive the ball reliably and that along with the starting pitching and the other defensive holes has really made it difficult for many of these guys to stay focused. Many of them are playing with no confidence. Others have been just going through the motions.

 

I can't tell if that also has leaked into their hitting or if their hitting is a problem by itself but they have clearly been very impatient at the plate. What was that 5th inning in last night's game?......Three outs in five or six pitches....terrible and Josh ended up back out on the mound literally a few seconds after coming in from a very tough half inning.

 

Honestly that really bothered me. Ya' gotta sacrifice as a team. Once the first guy goes down in one or two pitches then your responsibility as the next hitter is to be more patient even if your tendency is to not be a patient hitter. Once the second guy goes down in one or two pitches then the next batter really has no choice but to slow things down so that your pitcher gets a chance to get his bearings again. Instead all three of them came up and just swatted away like a bunch of selfish children. Honestly it was one of the most selfish, thoughtless and ugly moments I have seen this season and in microcosm a good example of what is really wrong with this team and with the way Tito manages it.

 

Where was the coach that should have told at least the third batter that inning if not the second that he had to give his guys a chance to catch their breadth before they had to head out onto the field again. How the hell are these teams beating us....for the most part they play more like teams.

[The Village Idiot]

A recap of the past 24 hours, not in precise chronological order, but close:

 

(1) Sox think they could have lost their primary catcher of the season from a foul tick off the collarbone, to learn a bit later that the x-ray is negative, however, hours later, the catcher can't throw comfortably and thus a rookie has to make his MLB catching debut in what turns out to be a must win game.

(2) Sox lose said game (9/26 game) with their #1/#2 ace on the mound a few innings after their MVP caliber center fielder slams into the wall making what would have been an outstanding catch if his shoulder hit the outfield wall instead of his forearm resulting in a 3-run, inside the park homer that could've been the third out.

(3) Sox send mid-season FA acquisition Erik Bedard to the mound for their umpteenth must win game of the season, but he pitches only into the 4th inning after the aforementioned rookie catcher gives him a four-run lead on his first major league homer of his career, because Bedard coughs up a couple runs shrinking the lead to...less. (Since I've suffered 7 strokes tonight, I'm not looking it up for accuracy.) Tito then pulls Bedard and sends in Aceves, pitching his third straight night in, yet again, the umpteenth must win game of the season.

(4) Aceves steps forth with honey badger-like efficiency, fortitude, and don't-give-a-s***-ness lasting through 7, while said rookie catcher proceeds to hit yet another homerun, a solo shot this time.

(4b) Yankees, with the bases loaded and no outs, hit into a TRIPLE PLAY, no less the Sox-hating Russell Martin being the assassin to do it, allowing the Rays to escape unscathed with the Yankees leading the game only 3-2 instead of what it could have been. The Rays follow in a future inning with a 3-run dinger to go ahead and stay ahead 5-2. Girardi, with all locked up, enters Mo in the 8th inning--to get his work in pre-playoffs but surely have tomorrow night off.

(5) Umpire Wally Bell has a strike zone wider than the Mississippi River...but late in the game then fails to call what should have been the final strike of the game in the 9th inning, innings later (see below), inducing hundreds of strokes across New England and hundreds of once-recovering alcoholics who simultaneously fell off the wagon with that one pitch call.

(6) In the 7th or 8th (who the f*** knows anymore??) the Sox load the bases with two outs as the rookie comes to the plate yet again. He slices a Jeterian blooping pop that in any other circumstance other than September 2011 through 9/27 (today's a new day!) would be a 3-run double, but in this f***ing year is a Markakis full-on stretch it out catch--nearly a trap--sending dickwad no-name Oriole 44th relief pitcher back to the dugout with a smirk. Half-inning over, O's up.

(7) Daniel Bard gives up 2 runs for a two-run game, and then proceeds to induce a pop fly couldabeenahomer that the now unanimously hated across New England Andino almost strokes for a homerun that would've tied the game.

(8) Enter Pap, who gives up a lead-off single by Hardy that darts by Lowrie who stretches out for it.

(9) Enter Markakis, who finally grounds out, but in the attempt at the double-play from Gonzo, the ball bounces off the runner's head. No out at second. One out. Man on second. Vladdy up at bat. Entire season continues to be on the line, with the tying run at the plate.

(10) Vladdy hits a Youk/Lowell/Beltre-grabbable bouncing liner past Lowrie into left field. Hardy to third.

(11) Pinch runner for Vladdy.

(12) Wieters up. Grounds out to catcher, Hardy scores, pinch runner to second. 8-7. Winning run--which would have practically eliminated Boston's playoff chances--steps up to the plate in Adam Jones, the Orioles' best hitter.

(13) Jones hits a solid grounder to Lowrie. Lowrie throws to Gonzalez for the final out.

(14) This doesn't even mention the controversial calls, ghost tage of Ellsbury by the incompetent O's first basemen, and Lowrie nearly getting tossed for balls and strikes early on. Nor does it mention the 8,259 singles that have darted just out of Pedey's reach in the past 3 games alone, singles that any other game in the season from May through August, he gets to.

 

Did that all just happen? Have I died and entered the gray area between purgatory and heaven or hell?

 

Step away from the light, Caroline! Or is it INTO the light?

 

I don't know where to step anymore except for in front the television for tomorrow night's game. Jesus Christ on a cracker. Go Sox. Time to fill my Xanax prescription for tomorrow...

[BigPapiEnFuego]

A recap of the past 24 hours, not in precise chronological order, but close:

 

(1) Sox think they could have lost their primary catcher of the season from a foul tick off the collarbone, to learn a bit later that the x-ray is negative, however, hours later, the catcher can't throw comfortably and thus a rookie has to make his MLB catching debut in what turns out to be a must win game.

(2) Sox lose said game (9/26 game) with their #1/#2 ace on the mound a few innings after their MVP caliber center fielder slams into the wall making what would have been an outstanding catch if his shoulder hit the outfield wall instead of his forearm resulting in a 3-run, inside the park homer that could've been the third out.

(3) Sox send mid-season FA acquisition Erik Bedard to the mound for their umpteenth must win game of the season, but he pitches only into the 4th inning after the aforementioned rookie catcher gives him a four-run lead on his first major league homer of his career, because Bedard coughs up a couple runs shrinking the lead to...less. (Since I've suffered 7 strokes tonight, I'm not looking it up for accuracy.) Tito then pulls Bedard and sends in Aceves, pitching his third straight night in, yet again, the umpteenth must win game of the season.

(4) Aceves steps forth with honey badger-like efficiency, fortitude, and don't-give-a-s***-ness lasting through 7, while said rookie catcher proceeds to hit yet another homerun, a solo shot this time.

(4b) Yankees, with the bases loaded and no outs, hit into a TRIPLE PLAY, no less the Sox-hating Russell Martin being the assassin to do it, allowing the Rays to escape unscathed with the Yankees leading the game only 3-2 instead of what it could have been. The Rays follow in a future inning with a 3-run dinger to go ahead and stay ahead 5-2. Girardi, with all locked up, enters Mo in the 8th inning--to get his work in pre-playoffs but surely have tomorrow night off.

(5) Umpire Wally Bell has a strike zone wider than the Mississippi River...but late in the game then fails to call what should have been the final strike of the game in the 9th inning, innings later (see below), inducing hundreds of strokes across New England and hundreds of once-recovering alcoholics who simultaneously fell off the wagon with that one pitch call.

(6) In the 7th or 8th (who the f*** knows anymore??) the Sox load the bases with two outs as the rookie comes to the plate yet again. He slices a Jeterian blooping pop that in any other circumstance other than September 2011 through 9/27 (today's a new day!) would be a 3-run double, but in this f***ing year is a Markakis full-on stretch it out catch--nearly a trap--sending dickwad no-name Oriole 44th relief pitcher back to the dugout with a smirk. Half-inning over, O's up.

(7) Daniel Bard gives up 2 runs for a two-run game, and then proceeds to induce a pop fly couldabeenahomer that the now unanimously hated across New England Andino almost strokes for a homerun that would've tied the game.

(8) Enter Pap, who gives up a lead-off single by Hardy that darts by Lowrie who stretches out for it.

(9) Enter Markakis, who finally grounds out, but in the attempt at the double-play from Gonzo, the ball bounces off the runner's head. No out at second. One out. Man on second. Vladdy up at bat. Entire season continues to be on the line, with the tying run at the plate.

(10) Vladdy hits a Youk/Lowell/Beltre-grabbable bouncing liner past Lowrie into left field. Hardy to third.

(11) Pinch runner for Vladdy.

(12) Wieters up. Grounds out to catcher, Hardy scores, pinch runner to second. 8-7. Winning run--which would have practically eliminated Boston's playoff chances--steps up to the plate in Adam Jones, the Orioles' best hitter.

(13) Jones hits a solid grounder to Lowrie. Lowrie throws to Gonzalez for the final out.

(14) This doesn't even mention the controversial calls, ghost tage of Ellsbury by the incompetent O's first basemen, and Lowrie nearly getting tossed for balls and strikes early on. Nor does it mention the 8,259 singles that have darted just out of Pedey's reach in the past 3 games alone, singles that any other game in the season from May through August, he gets to.

 

Did that all just happen? Have I died and entered the gray area between purgatory and heaven or hell?

 

Step away from the light, Caroline! Or is it INTO the light?

 

I don't know where to step anymore except for in front the television for tomorrow night's game. Jesus Christ on a cracker. Go Sox. Time to fill my Xanax prescription for tomorrow...

 

:thumbsup:

 

Awesome. Please do this every few days.

[DwightFright]

The fact that Tampa has so much more pitching talent with a much smaller payroll than the Sox is an indictment of your boy.

 

Plus the Rays basically waved goodbye to their bullpen in 2010 and rebuilt it with scap including Farnsworth.

[iortiz]

I just want to make the point that the team the Sox are competing with here is GOOD. People like to spend plenty of time talking about how the Sox can barely beat a team with less payroll, etc., but the fact of the matter is that payroll aside, the Rays are a very, very good team. They have been for a few years.

 

Folks simultaneously bash the Sox as being horrible, unwatchable, a disaster, an embarassment, etc., and then say that they should be built like the team that has the same record after 160 games. Do I think the Sox should have been better at this point? Yep. However, I don't think there's much shame in losing out on a playoff trip to that Rays team. They are very, very talented.

 

Low payroll + good/expected results = good management ; high payroll + poor/unexpected results = poor management

[Cocos Disciples]

What a day of baseball. Tomorrow should be pretty crazy. Time to sack up, Lester.

[example1]

Fun post! I appreciate the perspective. Sometimes that's all we have left, isn't it?

[example1]

Low payroll + good/expected results = good management ; high payroll + poor/unexpected results = poor management

 

So a good team is a relative concept? A team that wins 90 games but beats the red sox consistently is a good team, while a team that wins 90 games and beats the Yankees consistently is a disappointment... Of course I know that's not what you are saying personally but I do find the woe is us attitude to be a bit wearing. You guys should know that people where I live see the sox struggles as a collapse but it isn't being talked about in epic proportions like some might want to believe (specifically talk radio, Yankee fans and pessimistic/hyperbolic sox fans). a lot of people I know are highlighting the sustained period of success rather than the failure. In a work filled with Rockies and a's and Mariner fans the talk of collapse is just a novelty. It isn't important.

 

I suggest--not that my thoughts matter--that people climb off the ledge, not base the entire success of this team and franchise on a single game, and ask yourself if you are happy with this franchise as a fan it not. Has it given you lots of menoriable and thrilling moments? If the season ends today are you going to give up on the team forever or will you be right here, rooting for them if they are in a one game playoff at this time next year? I think I know the answer because I have seen so many of you here for years.

 

Let's hope the sox pull it off this season, but if they don't then ask yourself if you would prefer to be a fan of another big market team more. I suspect most of you are hooked on the sox like i am.

 

Anyway, I will be accused of homerism or something by defending the club, but I would prefer to be thankful for what I have than bitching about what I don't. This is ancompetitive franchise--if they dint make it they will be all the more influenced to do so next year and I trust they will get there soon once again.

[Jasonbay44]

I'm going to the game tomorrow, we better not f***ing lose.

[iortiz]

So a good team is a relative concept? A team that wins 90 games but beats the red sox consistently is a good team, while a team that wins 90 games and beats the Yankees consistently is a disappointment... Of course I know that's not what you are saying personally but I do find the woe is us attitude to be a bit wearing. You guys should know that people where I live see the sox struggles as a collapse but it isn't being talked about in epic proportions like some might want to believe (specifically talk radio, Yankee fans and pessimistic/hyperbolic sox fans). a lot of people I know are highlighting the sustained period of success rather than the failure. In a work filled with Rockies and a's and Mariner fans the talk of collapse is just a novelty. It isn't important.

 

I suggest--not that my thoughts matter--that people climb off the ledge, not base the entire success of this team and franchise on a single game, and ask yourself if you are happy with this franchise as a fan it not. Has it given you lots of menoriable and thrilling moments? If the season ends today are you going to give up on the team forever or will you be right here, rooting for them if they are in a one game playoff at this time next year? I think I know the answer because I have seen so many of you here for years.

 

Let's hope the sox pull it off this season, but if they don't then ask yourself if you would prefer to be a fan of another big market team more. I suspect most of you are hooked on the sox like i am.

 

Anyway, I will be accused of homerism or something by defending the club, but I would prefer to be thankful for what I have than bitching about what I don't. This is ancompetitive franchise--if they dint make it they will be all the more influenced to do so next year and I trust they will get there soon once again.

 

Wowowowowo...

 

E1. Theo Epstain is not the Boston Red Sox. He is an employee. I have been pointing at him since his poor management last years. I care about this team as you and all here do. IMO he would be the main responsible (not the only but the main) if we collapse. I say this clear: He should charge the main load.

 

This ain't over. As I been saying, we have to wait and see how it ends in order to deliberate.

 

In your opinion which GM has run better his team last three/four years according with the resources available, Epstein or Friedman? That's all I was pointing at.

 

Since when we can't point at an employee of this team who is not performing for what is paid for?. Since I care and root for this team, I point the good and the bad at 'em. There's nothing wrong. A fan of any team at any sport does. If our GM is not longer capable to deliver results, I will point at him, whoever is the name.

 

It's good to be optimistic. In fact, I want/desire/wish that we win tomorrow and we make a great paper if we make the POs. But we have to face true and try to be objectives as well, and notice that the odds are not in our side these days. That's all.

 

I have tried to be objective according to my ideas.

 

So... I respect your opinion about this issue (GM thing), but I don't share it. In the end this is all about; share our ideas and enlarge our criteria.

 

BTW you're a great poster and I like debate with you among other. :thumbsup:

[a700hitter]

Wowowowowo...

 

E1. Theo Epstain is not the Boston Red Sox. He is an employee. I have been pointing at him since his poor management last years. I care about this team as you and all here do. IMO he would be the main responsible (not the only but the main) if we collapse. I say this clear: He should charge the main load.

 

This ain't over. As I been saying, we have to wait and see how it ends in order to deliberate.

 

In your opinion which GM has run better his team last three/four years according with the resources available, Epstein or Friedman? That's all I was pointing at.

 

Since when we can't point at an employee of this team who is not performing for what is paid for?. Since I care and root for this team, I point the good and the bad at 'em. There's nothing wrong. A fan of any team at any sport does. If our GM is not longer capable to deliver results, I will point at him, whoever is the name.

 

It's good to be optimistic. In fact, I want/desire/wish that we win tomorrow and we make a great paper if we make the POs. But we have to face true and try to be objectives as well, and notice that the odds are not in our side these days. That's all.

 

I have tried to be objective according to my ideas.

 

So... I respect your opinion about this issue (GM thing), but I don't share it. In the end this is all about; share our ideas and enlarge our criteria.

 

BTW you're a great poster and I like debate with you among other. :thumbsup:

Sometimes I think E1 would rather cut off a limb than to criticize Theo. I don't think he is being very objective about it, and his suggestion in his post is sort of like if you don't like it find another team, but I know you won't, so live with it. I don't get it. We are assessing and analyzing the record of the GM and discussing whether the team is better with him or without him. I think we are being very objective. Theo's record - not just wins and losses- has not been great on a number of fronts over the last 3 years, and I can't think of 1 aspect where his performance has been excellent. With regard to this season, most people think Theo is significantly responsible for this collapse.

[SoxSport]

Yeah--it's obvious the Sox have a management problem--not only on the field, but right up into the front office.

 

Bad situation, because things probably aren't going to change. They are an insulated organization.

The Boston media, for example, is in a state of denial about the poor management.

 

The best thing that can happen is for them to miss the playoffs. They aren't going anywhere in the playoffs, anyways. Not without Youks and bad pitching. That would force management changes that are needed.

 

The team looks tired and burned out. A month too soon.

 

Lavernway looks strong--a breath of fresh air. Maybe they should have brought up the rest of Pawtucket.

[example1]

That actually wasn't meant as a defense of Theo. It was a defense of the entire club. You guys take my preference for Theo too far. I didn't mention him or the FO once. I was specifically writing about those who have been on the ledge, ranting about the team not being worth watching the past few seasons, etc., I think it is reactionary. This club is filled with very talented elite players and I won't be surprised at all if next season the core of this team wins the World Series. People act like the team itself is a complete disaster, as if it couldn't possibly get worse.

 

With very little memory usage, most of us should be able to recall a time when it WAS much worse. No playoffs. No pennant race. Few allstars. I'm grateful to have a club that competes year after year. Apparently I shouldn't be.

 

I remember posting something similar after the disappointing 2006 finish. In 2007 the same core of a team won the World Series. I think this core is considerably better.

[Palodios]

Sometimes I think E1 would rather cut off a limb than to criticize Theo. I don't think he is being very objective about it' date=' and his suggestion in his post is sort of like if you don't like it find another team, but I know you won't, so live with it. I don't get it. We are assessing and analyzing the record of the GM and discussing whether the team is better with him or without him. I think we are being very objective. Theo's record - not just wins and losses- has not been great on a number of fronts over the last 3 years, and I can't think of 1 aspect where his performance has been excellent. With regard to this season, most people think Theo is significantly responsible for this collapse.[/quote']

 

Let's be objective then.

 

1) Theo has drafted Ellsbury, Lester, Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard.... that's a massive haul, especially considering what he has had to work with for first round draft picks.

 

2) Some of the other prospects he's drafted have gone into trades for marque players like Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez, Jason Bay. With the exception of Gagne, he has an incredible track record when it comes to giving up prospects for big players.

 

3) Theo's teams have had the 3rd most wins in the majors since he has been around.

 

4) Theo has won two world series titles.

 

5) Theo has found many good diamond-in-the-rough players.

 

Cons

 

1) Has failed to provide depth in the starting rotation.

 

2) Has a very bad track record with expensive free agents.

 

3) He cannot build a good bullpen to save his life.

 

 

Feel free to add any if you want. Many of us are seeing the pros and cons, and believe it goes significantly in his favor.

[VA Sox Fan]

So a good team is a relative concept? A team that wins 90 games but beats the red sox consistently is a good team, while a team that wins 90 games and beats the Yankees consistently is a disappointment... Of course I know that's not what you are saying personally but I do find the woe is us attitude to be a bit wearing. You guys should know that people where I live see the sox struggles as a collapse but it isn't being talked about in epic proportions like some might want to believe (specifically talk radio, Yankee fans and pessimistic/hyperbolic sox fans). a lot of people I know are highlighting the sustained period of success rather than the failure. In a work filled with Rockies and a's and Mariner fans the talk of collapse is just a novelty. It isn't important.

 

I suggest--not that my thoughts matter--that people climb off the ledge, not base the entire success of this team and franchise on a single game, and ask yourself if you are happy with this franchise as a fan it not. Has it given you lots of menoriable and thrilling moments? If the season ends today are you going to give up on the team forever or will you be right here, rooting for them if they are in a one game playoff at this time next year? I think I know the answer because I have seen so many of you here for years.

 

Let's hope the sox pull it off this season, but if they don't then ask yourself if you would prefer to be a fan of another big market team more. I suspect most of you are hooked on the sox like i am.

 

Anyway, I will be accused of homerism or something by defending the club, but I would prefer to be thankful for what I have than bitching about what I don't. This is ancompetitive franchise--if they dint make it they will be all the more influenced to do so next year and I trust they will get there soon once again.

 

:thumbsup:

 

I like the way you think!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Let's be objective then.

 

1) Theo has drafted Ellsbury, Lester, Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard.... that's a massive haul, especially considering what he has had to work with for first round draft picks.

 

2) Some of the other prospects he's drafted have gone into trades for marque players like Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez, Jason Bay. With the exception of Gagne, he has an incredible track record when it comes to giving up prospects for big players.

 

3) Theo's teams have had the 3rd most wins in the majors since he has been around.

 

4) Theo has won two world series titles, Most of any team since he started.

 

5) Theo has found many good diamond-in-the-rough players.

 

Cons

 

1) Has failed to provide depth in the starting rotation.

 

2) Has a very bad track record with expensive free agents.

 

3) He cannot build a good bullpen to save his life.

 

 

Feel free to add any if you want. Many of us are seeing the pros and cons, and believe it goes significantly in his favor.

 

Just wanted to add that little tid bit.

[DwightFright]

Let's be objective then.

 

1) Theo has drafted Ellsbury, Lester, Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard.... that's a massive haul, especially considering what he has had to work with for first round draft picks.

 

2) Some of the other prospects he's drafted have gone into trades for marque players like Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez, Jason Bay. With the exception of Gagne, he has an incredible track record when it comes to giving up prospects for big players.

 

3) Theo's teams have had the 3rd most wins in the majors since he has been around.

 

4) Theo has won two world series titles.

 

5) Theo has found many good diamond-in-the-rough players.

 

Cons

 

1) Has failed to provide depth in the starting rotation.

 

2) Has a very bad track record with expensive free agents.

 

3) He cannot build a good bullpen to save his life.

 

 

Feel free to add any if you want. Many of us are seeing the pros and cons, and believe it goes significantly in his favor.

 

While some pundits feel that Theo would be the front runner for the Cubs GM position if he wasn't under a Sox contract for 2012, most feel he has made such a mess of the Red Sox that he will never leave before fixing it. Theo is nothing if not the consummate professional, and he feels responsible to Henry and Red Sox Nation for the state of the Sox. The bigger issue is what he will do about Francona if the Sox fail to make the postseason, or don't make a deep run.

[jacksonianmarch]

That actually wasn't meant as a defense of Theo. It was a defense of the entire club. You guys take my preference for Theo too far. I didn't mention him or the FO once. I was specifically writing about those who have been on the ledge, ranting about the team not being worth watching the past few seasons, etc., I think it is reactionary. This club is filled with very talented elite players and I won't be surprised at all if next season the core of this team wins the World Series. People act like the team itself is a complete disaster, as if it couldn't possibly get worse.

 

With very little memory usage, most of us should be able to recall a time when it WAS much worse. No playoffs. No pennant race. Few allstars. I'm grateful to have a club that competes year after year. Apparently I shouldn't be.

 

I remember posting something similar after the disappointing 2006 finish. In 2007 the same core of a team won the World Series. I think this core is considerably better.

 

It's not hyperbole. If the sox lose out tonight, they will have set the record for September chokers. 9 game lead to start September, that has never been blown before

[a700hitter]

Let's be objective then.

 

1) Theo has drafted Ellsbury, Lester, Pedroia, Buchholz, Bard.... that's a massive haul, especially considering what he has had to work with for first round draft picks.

 

2) Some of the other prospects he's drafted have gone into trades for marque players like Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez, Jason Bay. With the exception of Gagne, he has an incredible track record when it comes to giving up prospects for big players.

 

3) Theo's teams have had the 3rd most wins in the majors since he has been around.

 

4) Theo has won two world series titles.

 

5) Theo has found many good diamond-in-the-rough players.

 

Cons

 

1) Has failed to provide depth in the starting rotation.

 

2) Has a very bad track record with expensive free agents.

 

3) He cannot build a good bullpen to save his life.

 

 

Feel free to add any if you want. Many of us are seeing the pros and cons, and believe it goes significantly in his favor.

I think you are underweighting the importance of the FA failures. In addition to the money that has been squandered on past FA busts, he has the team locked into a couple of big contracts that the team will have to live for years going forward-- Lackey and Crawford.

 

Also, I would include as a con that here is little ML ready star quality players in our Minor League system. It is very thin talent-wise.

[a700hitter]

I remember posting something similar after the disappointing 2006 finish. In 2007 the same core of a team won the World Series. I think this core is considerably better.

The major difference is that after 2006 the Red Sox had Pedroia on the way together with Lester and Ellsbury. Lester admittedly didn't do much in 2007, but he was mid-season depth. I n 2008, all three were productive full time major leaguers. I don't see that influx of talent coming to the Sox in 2012.

[a700hitter]

While some pundits feel that Theo would be the front runner for the Cubs GM position if he wasn't under a Sox contract for 2012' date=' most feel he has made such a mess of the Red Sox that he will never leave before fixing it.[/quote']His attempts at fixing his prior mistakes have resulted in bigger mistakes. Maybe a change of course is needed, and that decision should by made by ownership, regardless of Theo's opinion.

[Palodios]

I think you are underweighting the importance of the FA failures. In addition to the money that has been squandered on past FA busts' date=' he has the team locked into a couple of big contracts that the team will have to live for years going forward-- Lackey and Crawford.[/quote']

 

You guys have been reminding of this fairly frequently, I certainly wouldn't forget it

 

I understand how much they suck. I've watched about twenty different games where Lackey looked like complete garbage and is getting paid tens of millions. But I think that for every screwed up free agent signing, he makes up for it with guys like Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard, Papelbon.