2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

Beyond the money I prefer Wandy over Oswalt these days.

 

What?!?!?

[jung]

If there is one thing we are all learning in this it is the complexity of dealing with the cap when you have players you might be able to coax away from Arbitration, players that may win or lose in Arbitration, potential options to exercise and players that you want to sign. It is clear to me that the Sox are making every effort to stay under the cap this year. They are playing so close to the line that they might go over even making every effort to stay under. Probably even with sending Scuts off, the only way they can guarantee staying under is to send off more salary or not sign any more players.

[Palodios]

if true... Under or over the cap?... That my friend' date=' will be the key question...[/quote']

 

Depending on arbitration figures/ benefit information, the Red Sox could end up anywhere between 4 under and 3 over the luxury tax after everyone is signed. They were about 10 million over in 2011, so I would not be surprised if they'll stay in that vicinity this year as well.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wandy is a LHP that throws about 89 mph. Right handed hitters would put dents in the monster all game.

[seabeachfred]

Now' date=' I am getting confused. Are they settled on Oswalt or not?[/quote']

 

700, I still don't know who in authority or in the know said the Red Sox were zeroing in on Roy Oswalt. That is what we were all led to believe and most of us accepted that. However, the way things have gone of late maybe we shouldn't believe anything and wait until the dust settles. Apparently, though, the Red Sox still do not have enough money to sign Oswalt unless I'm reading this wrong and if that's so all we've done is weaken ourselves further by trading Scutaro and getting nothing in return---and for those who say we got something, sorry, Mortsensen is little better than a bag of balls when compared to our needs and why we believed Marco was traded in the first place.

[iortiz]

What?!?!?

 

I've been asking how is Oswalt's health these days, and nobody has answered. I'm concerned about this issue. Wandy's numbers are solid and he is healthy, isn't he?

[SoxFanForsyth]

700' date=' I still don't know who in authority or in the know said the Red Sox were zeroing in on Roy Oswalt. That is what we were all led to believe and most of us accepted that. However, the way things have gone of late maybe we shouldn't believe anything and wait until the dust settles. Apparently, though, the Red Sox still do not have enough money to sign Oswalt unless I'm reading this wrong and if that's so all we've done is weaken ourselves further by trading Scutaro and getting nothing in return---and for those who say we got something, sorry, Mortsensen is little better than a bag of balls when compared to our needs and why we believed Marco was traded in the first place.[/quote']

 

Fred.

 

Why the hell would the Red Sox have exercised Scutaro's option if they were just going to dump his salary??

 

They dumped his salary so that they could pick up a SP.

 

No matter how dumb you think the Sox FO is, they are still professionals and are entirely capable of putting together a winning team. I hardly think this FO has seen the Sox get eaten up by injuries the past 2 years, finish in 3rd in the East, and all of a sudden give up on putting together a winning team?

 

Come on man. They are going to get a SP, and it's likely going to be Oswalt. The writing is all over the wall.

[jung]

Depending on arbitration figures/ benefit information, the Red Sox could end up anywhere between 4 under and 3 over the luxury tax after everyone is signed. They were about 10 million over in 2011, so I would not be surprised if they'll stay in that vicinity this year as well.

 

They may end up there but it makes no sense that they would be aiming to end up there. If that is the case, they just sent off a player that could help them for the difference between being $4M over and $10M over. I do not think they are comfortable with the idea of being any amount over this year and will continue to make every effort to stay under.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I've been asking how is Oswalt's health' date=' and nobody has answered. I'm concerned about this issue. Wandy's numbers are solid and he is healthy, isn't he?[/quote']

 

His back is fine. He came back on August 7th and averaged 6.72 IP per game. So basically he'd get 2 outs into the 7th inning before getting pulled.

 

I'm not sure if our entire pitching staff did that in all of September.

[iortiz]

They may end up there but it makes no sense that they would be aiming to end up there. If that is the case' date=' they just sent off a player that could help them for the difference between being $4M over and $10M over.[/b'] I do not think they are comfortable with the idea of being any amount over this year and will continue to make every effort to stay under.

 

This.

[Palodios]

I've been asking how is Oswalt's health' date=' and nobody has answered. I'm concerned about this issue. Wandy's numbers are solid and he is healthy, isn't he?[/quote']

 

In 2011, Wandy had a better ERA, ERA+, WHIP, K/9, BAA, IP. He's also a year and a half younger. If they can get him at a reasonable cost, they should, but that is a big if.

[a700hitter]

Depending on arbitration figures/ benefit information' date=' the Red Sox could end up anywhere between 4 under and 3 over the luxury tax after everyone is signed. They were about 10 million over in 2011, so I would not be surprised if they'll stay in that vicinity this year as well.[/quote']When is Ortiz's arbitration hearing? Also, I am assuming that your figures don't take into account any money for Oswalt, so $8 million for Oswalt would put then over the cap regardless of the arbitration decision. If that is the case, then I don't understand the Scutaro move, because Mortensen is just going to be on the Pawtucket Shuttle.

[iortiz]

His back is fine. He came back on August 7th and averaged 6.72 IP per game. So basically he'd get 2 outs into the 7th inning before getting pulled.

 

I'm not sure if our entire pitching staff did that in all of September.

 

Well, if he is healthy, as Pal said write the damn check, Ben

 

I just want to see if we stay under the cap after this.

[a700hitter]

In 2011' date=' Wandy had a better ERA, ERA+, WHIP, K/9, BAA, IP. He's also a year and a half younger. If they can get him at a reasonable cost, they should, but that is a big if.[/quote']Are you talking reasonable cost in prospects or salary/ Wandy has a big salary. If the Stros eat salary, we'll have to pony up some good prospects.

[iortiz]

In 2011' date=' Wandy had a better ERA, ERA+, WHIP, K/9, BAA, IP. He's also a year and a half younger. If they can get him at a reasonable cost, they should, but that is a big if.[/quote']

 

SFF says that Oswalt is fine. If he is 100% fine, I wonder, why in the hell NY signed Kuroda?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Are you talking rewasonable cost in prospects or salary/ Wandy has a big salary. If the Stros eat salary' date=' we'll have to pony up some good prospects.[/quote']

 

Exactly - To get Wandy's price down to $8mm/year, we would have to dish quite a few prospects.

 

Personally, I'd rather have Oswalt over Wandy all things equal. But especially with the prospect difference.

[Palodios]

Are you talking rewasonable cost in prospects or salary/ Wandy has a big salary. If the Stros eat salary' date=' we'll have to pony up some good prospects.[/quote']

 

I'd prefer if they stopped being cheap, took the whole contract and saved the prospects.

[jung]

SFF says that Oswalt is fine. If he is 100% fine, I wonder, why in the hell NY signed Kuroda?

 

We will likely never know why the Yanks went Kuroda instead but I would not discount NY being more concerned with Oswalt based on history. Really hard to tell though. How can we see into the mind of the GM and discern such marginal differences?

[SoxFanForsyth]

SFF says that Oswalt is fine. If he is 100% fine' date=' I wonder, why in the hell NY signed Kuroda?[/quote']

 

Probably just because he's not a gamble of having any of his issues come back up.

 

But from everything that I've seen, Oswalt seems to be fine. The risk is that his back flares up, but I don't see that as a huge risk myself.

[iortiz]

I'd prefer if they stopped being cheap' date=' took the whole contract and saved the prospects.[/quote']

 

Agree...

 

Edit: if we stopped being cheap, I wanted to hear an explanation about Scutaro's departure.

[iortiz]

Probably just because he's not a gamble of having any of his issues come back up.

 

But from everything that I've seen, Oswalt seems to be fine. The risk is that his back flares up, but I don't see that as a huge risk myself.

 

This is why I prefer Wandy, regardless he put solid numbers last year.

 

Hell, I do not want another injury concern in our rotation SFF.

[SoxFanForsyth]

This is why I prefer Wandy, regardless he put solid numbers last year.

 

Hell, I do not want another injury concern in our rotation SFF.

 

Oswalt has averaged 206 IP over the past 8 seasons. He's a workhorse that was sidelined for the first time in a while last season, but came back as strong as he's ever been.

[a700hitter]

Oswalt has averaged 206 IP over the past 8 seasons. He's a workhorse that was sidelined for the first time in a while last season' date=' but came back as strong as he's ever been.[/quote']I've been wanting to get this guy for a few years already.

[iortiz]

Oswalt has averaged 206 IP over the past 8 seasons. He's a workhorse that was sidelined for the first time in a while last season' date=' but came back as strong as he's ever been.[/quote']

 

If we sign him, I want to believe that our FO sees enough fuel in his tank to face next season.

[Palodios]

Oswalt has averaged 206 IP over the past 8 seasons. He's a workhorse that was sidelined for the first time in a while last season' date=' but came back as strong as he's ever been.[/quote']

 

I'm also very concerned when a player openly talks about retirement. When Drew started talking about in 2007, we should have more worried:rolleyes:

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm also very concerned when a player openly talks about retirement. When Drew started talking about in 2007' date=' we should have more worried:rolleyes:[/quote']

 

What about Pettitte in 2010? :harhar:

[iortiz]

I'm also very concerned when a player openly talks about retirement. When Drew started talking about in 2007' date=' we should have more worried:rolleyes:[/quote']

 

This.

 

Pal, Hopefully our concerns are not serious.

[jung]

I'm also very concerned when a player openly talks about retirement. When Drew started talking about in 2007, we should have more worried

 

That is a good point especially when it is coming from a pitcher.

[Palodios]

This.

 

Pal, Hopefully our concerns are not serious.

 

On the other hand... Oswalt has never won a World Series. If he puts the work in, who knows, this could be his year?

[iortiz]

On the other hand... Oswalt has never won a World Series. If he puts the work in' date=' who knows, this could be his year?[/quote']

 

pfff... that would be awesome :thumbsup: