2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[example1]

I'm concerned E1' date=' being honest. Our 2012 pitching (rotation + BP) doesn't look encouraging. Hopefully our FO surprise us.[/quote']

 

I'm not that concerned, honestly. Top 3 are very solid. Beyond that, who knows, but they have a great offense which will make up some of the ground.

 

I like Bard being prepared to be in the rotation. They could use him like the Rangers used Alexi Ogando, especially in the playoffs. If you get to a short series, Bard could be the most important weapon on the team if his arm is stretched out and he can throw a few times for an inning or two.

[example1]

I have believed since part way through the winter meetings that if the Sox are going to get anything done that might fit the description of bold or decisive or even relevant, it will be by the trade route this year. It might be the one way they can stay under the cap and still get some things done. They might also be able to rid themselves of some problems that will not be solved by having V around but will likely only turn into open festering sores. I think either Beckett or Youk are prime candidates to be moved....maybe even Ells if only because of pending FA in his case. They may just be to screwed in pitching to do anything with Beckett. So if I were a betting man of the three I would bet it is Youk that will likely be gone.

 

It is amazing to me that after a year like they just had and with being identified as the ring leader of the SP gang, Beckett could not stay out of trouble past the beginning of December.

 

I suspect their vision is to keep Beckett and to add to the pitching, so I think Youkliis or Ellsbury would be near the top if a blockbuster were in order. I've said it a million times, but they should back up the bus and get Felix from Seattle. Felix, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz and Aceves would be really tough to beat. I realize it's a pipe dream, but man he would be a nice addition.

[iortiz]

I suspect their vision is to keep Beckett and to add to the pitching' date=' so I think Youkliis or Ellsbury would be near the top if a blockbuster were in order. I've said it a million times, but they should back up the bus and get Felix from Seattle. Felix, Beckett, Lester, Buchholz and Aceves would be really tough to beat. I realize it's a pipe dream, but man he would be a nice addition.[/quote']

 

Ells for Felix?

 

Straight up?

[example1]

Ells for Felix?

 

Straight up?

 

I doubt it. That would be too simple and, frankly, too good a deal for the Sox. I really like Ellsbury but would move him pretty quickly for a true ace. Pitching rules the league and the Sox adding Felix would really make them a dangerous team. I also think Kalish can take over for Ellsbury in the near future.

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Reddick

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Felix

Beckett

Lester

Buchholz

Aceves

 

Bard (closer)

 

That's got the makings of a really good team.

 

Probaby too much to hope Ellsbury for Felix straight up would work though...

[iortiz]

I doubt it. That would be too simple and, frankly, too good a deal for the Sox. I really like Ellsbury but would move him pretty quickly for a true ace. Pitching rules the league and the Sox adding Felix would really make them a dangerous team. I also think Kalish can take over for Ellsbury in the near future.

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Reddick

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Felix

Beckett

Lester

Buchholz

Aceves

 

Bard (closer)

 

That's got the makings of a really good team.

 

Probaby too much to hope Ellsbury for Felix straight up would work though...

 

If you bring me Beltran, where do I sign?

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Beltran

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Scutaro

Kalish

[jung]

I would have chosen Ells over Youk as the more prime candidate if BC was not looking so tentative about things. It takes some amount of courage and security to trade a guy that had the season the Ells had and I just don't think BC feels that secure as yet. If somebody threw everything AND the kitchen sink on the table for Ells then I think BC would go for something like that but even a straight up even steven deal for Ells probably looks risky to BC at this point.

 

If he does not get dollar for dollar value for Youk it will be harder to criticize BC as Youk had got some negatives on his resume...age, brittleness of body and maybe even of mind.

[Meh]

I don't want to rain on your parade or well I do... if you want Felix on your team become Mariners fans. He is NOT going to be traded. Especially to the Red Sox. Their farm is a mess right now. They don't have the chips to get him. Even with Ellsbury. Think about it for a second. You're competing against 28 other teams. Think about what the Rangers or the Yankees or heck even the Braves could offer, then what you could offer. BUT mostly think about the Mariner's not trading Felix cause he's not going to be traded this off season.

[Emmz]

Yeah dude, the Yankees got the chips fo sho.

 

I love how Meh thinks the Yankees got the everything on lock, s*** they do, but not in trades for "untouchable" talent like Felix. I think you should stop to gather your thoughts for a second. What package could the Yanks give up that could beat a guy who atm has ridiculous stock like Ellsbury. Some more of those overrated Yankee pitching prospects who never pan out? I'm pretty sure Ellsbury as a centerpiece to a trade gives the Sox an advantage over almost any team. Ellsbury put up stats that make FOs fap. 9.4 WAR last season, that's more than Joe Mauer in 2009.

 

His trade stock right now is through the roof dude, you're delusional if you don't think the Sox could blow any other deal out of the water if they offered Ellsbury.

[SoxSport]

Looks like Bard and Aceves are the 4th and 5th starters, from the Globe this morning. Bard is definitely starting in ST.

 

Gentle Ben should take a few lessons from wheeler-dealer Danny Ainge.

 

Another surprising stat from the Sunday papers: The media constantly reminds us the Patriots have the worst defense in their Conference. Guess what? The Packers also have the worst defense in their Conference. But both teams have great pitching!

[jung]

Well if the news from earlier in the off season can be believed the Mariners would really want a bucket load of prospects for Felix more than anything else, probably even more than Ells. I do think that is accurate as I have seen that reported elsewhere.

[Emmz]

You don't think they'd change their minds, if that is their mindset, if the Sox brought someone like Ells to the table?

 

If they just want prospects to rebuild with, yeah the Sox would be in about last though, that I would definitely agree with.

 

Eh, the Sox don't need Felix though IMO. I'd rather have Ellsbury tbh. I like position players a lot more than pitchers.

[Palodios]

I am going to shout this, because people overlook it every single time that an Ellsbury for Felix trade is discussed. There will be no straight up trade, it will not happen. However...

 

THREE TEAM TRADE!

 

[Emmz]

I want Paps back :

[Meh]

Yeah dude, the Yankees got the chips fo sho.

 

I love how Meh thinks the Yankees got the everything on lock, s*** they do, but not in trades for "untouchable" talent like Felix. I think you should stop to gather your thoughts for a second. What package could the Yanks give up that could beat a guy who atm has ridiculous stock like Ellsbury. Some more of those overrated Yankee pitching prospects who never pan out? I'm pretty sure Ellsbury as a centerpiece to a trade gives the Sox an advantage over almost any team. Ellsbury put up stats that make FOs fap. 9.4 WAR last season, that's more than Joe Mauer in 2009.

 

His trade stock right now is through the roof dude, you're delusional if you don't think the Sox could blow any other deal out of the water if they offered Ellsbury.

 

Ellsbury is going to get PAID soon. why would they want him?

 

Yankees could go in with a package of Montero, Gardner, Manny, Dellin, Hughes and maybe Eddie Nunez

 

Sox could deal Ells off to the braves for Vizcaino and Delgado, throw in Buchholz and Bogearts and maybe Raundo.

 

Then you'd have to combat the Rangers who could come at you with Holland headlining the package and top prospects who don't have a place in their system with Profar, Perez and Olt. Then add in guys like Ramirez, Mendez, Bourbon, Beltre, etc.

 

It's useless to continue this though since the M's won't deal Felix.

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox are reluctant to exceed the $178MM luxury tax threshold on player salaries, writes Nick Cafardo in his latest column for the Boston Globe. If the Sox decide to remain under the threshold, it will limit the team's spending flexibility for outfield and pitching help, effectively eliminating top-tier free agents.

 

I dont see this team making any big moves this off season .

[redsoxfan3]

Looks like Bard and Aceves are the 4th and 5th starters, from the Globe this morning. Bard is definitely starting in ST.

 

Gentle Ben should take a few lessons from wheeler-dealer Danny Ainge.

 

Another surprising stat from the Sunday papers: The media constantly reminds us the Patriots have the worst defense in their Conference. Guess what? The Packers also have the worst defense in their Conference. But both teams have great pitching!

 

Bard and Aceves will be decent as starters. They won't provide much more than probably 160 innings each this year, but I still believe they will give us quality innings, even if the quantity is not there of say 190 to 200 innings that I am hoping Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz can accomplish. If this team stays healthy in the rotation, which has been problematic in the past, then that would be a huge factor to this team's success. I am down with Bard and Aceves in the pen. We better sign Madson or trade for Bailey. I would rather sign Madson, even if that means we go over the LT. Of course, I am not the one signing the pay checks, but it would probably be the best solution for this team.

[jung]

Hate to say it but I think both Aceves and Bard to the rotation is simply more evidence that the Sox are not intending to go over the cap as you can bulk up on a bunch of BP guys without spending much money. Much harder to do with starters. I guess we can also hope that this would mean the spend more money to land a closer but honestly I don't see that one happening either. Maybe if Madson had somebody else for an agent I would feel better about that one. Madson would have to get real desperate for something to happen there I think.

[Palodios]

Rich Hill for closer in 2012. No one has scored an earned run against him since 2009.

 

Seriously though, I bet he will be a big surprise in the bullpen next year.

[a700hitter]

I doubt it. That would be too simple and, frankly, too good a deal for the Sox. I really like Ellsbury but would move him pretty quickly for a true ace. Pitching rules the league and the Sox adding Felix would really make them a dangerous team. I also think Kalish can take over for Ellsbury in the near future.

 

Crawford

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lavarnway

Reddick

Scutaro

Kalish

 

Felix

Beckett

Lester

Buchholz

Aceves

 

Bard (closer)

 

That's got the makings of a really good team.

 

Probaby too much to hope Ellsbury for Felix straight up would work though...

I am not crazy about the bottom of this batting order-- 6,7,8,9. Ortiz will not see anything to hit with this behind him. Even if Lavarnway can be a real big league hitter, I don't think he'll get enough ABs, because he will probably only be Salty's backup. Replace Lavarnway with Salty in that lineup and I like it even less. If you could add Beltran to this mix and put Reddick on the bench, the lineup would rock.

[a700hitter]

Rich Hill for closer in 2012. No one has scored an earned run against him since 2009.

 

Seriously though, I bet he will be a big surprise in the bullpen next year.

When did he have his TJ surgery?

[a700hitter]

From Cafardo's article today:

The Sox also need a starting pitcher, and they may have to go after a low-cost one - about $3 million-$5 million on a one-year deal. They’re going about things as if they were the Pirates or Royals. It doesn’t mean the players they get can’t be effective, but it eliminates pitchers the caliber of Roy Oswalt and Edwin Jackson who would surely help.

Everyone has a budget, but it’s awfully risky to skimp on the closer, especially after you’ve lost one of the best.

 

Bailey didn’t start his 2011 season until May 29 because of a forearm strain. He already has had two procedures on his elbow.

[Elktonnick]

Hate to say it but I think both Aceves and Bard to the rotation is simply more evidence that the Sox are not intending to go over the cap as you can bulk up on a bunch of BP guys without spending much money. Much harder to do with starters. I guess we can also hope that this would mean the spend more money to land a closer but honestly I don't see that one happening either. Maybe if Madson had somebody else for an agent I would feel better about that one. Madson would have to get real desperate for something to happen there I think.

 

Some pundits believe the sox aare waiting for Madson's price to come down.

[jung]

Well at this point there is likely little risk in waiting longer to see what might happen with Madson. However I think the Sox want to see him fall to something like $7-$8M per and I suspect somebody somewhere will get him before that. Miami is still lurking and I think all things being equal since they already took a shot at him, apparently they think they will find a way to fit him in as closer.

[redsoxrules]

Bard as a starter?

 

who the hell is going to be the closer ? and the set up man ?

[redsoxfan3]

Bard as a starter?

 

who the hell is going to be the closer ? and the set up man ?

 

That's the the problem this team is facing. If we keep Bard in the pen, we need a starter, if we move Bard to the rotation, then we need a closer. Either way we need to fill gaps. You're questions are not answered as of now. That why Cafardo was saying we need to sign Madson or trade for Bailey, and Madson is the better out of the two, but will cost 11 million a year. I am more worried about a closer than a setup man at this point.

[a700hitter]

Well at this point there is likely little risk in waiting longer to see what might happen with Madson. However I think the Sox want to see him fall to something like $7-$8M per and I suspect somebody somewhere will get him before that. Miami is still lurking and I think all things being equal since they already took a shot at him' date=' apparently they think they will find a way to fit him in as closer.[/quote']I agree. We will not get him for $7-8 million per year. One way or another the Sox will end up paying through the nose for a closer who is inferior to Papelbon. We'll either pay some big bucks or prospects.

[iortiz]

I agree. We will not get him for $7-8 million per year. One way or another the Sox will end up paying through the nose for a closer who is inferior to Papelbon. We'll either pay some big bucks or prospects.

 

the more the moon comes and go and comes back, and any move yet, the more the signs tell me that our pitching is going to be a complete mystery and with a lot of risks next year. I don't feel comfortable moving forward in that department.

[seabeachfred]

I am not crazy about the bottom of this batting order-- 6' date='7,8,9. Ortiz will not see anything to hit with this behind him. Even if Lavarnway can be a real big league hitter, I don't think he'll get enough ABs, because he will probably only be Salty's backup. Replace Lavarnway with Salty in that lineup and I like it even less. If you could add Beltran to this mix and put Reddick on the bench, the lineup would rock.[/quote']

 

700, the lineup would not work. It wouldn't work because of who is leading off. How much does everyone have to see and have to hear to finally believe that Carl Crawford hates batting leadoff and when he bats in the spot his numbers show it glaringly. Of the many blunders FrancoMa made in, thankfully, his last year as Red Sox skipper was ignoring advice and stories about how much Carl hated the leadoff position and stubbornly putting him there early in the season with extra disastrous results. Joe Maddon said Crawford didn't like leading off, David Martinez said he didn't and even Crawford himself said he'd rather not bad there. Carl's preferred spot is No. 2, and if you say that's where Pedroia has to hit, then those who say Crawford's signing was a mistake are absolutely right. If we want Carl to make a serious comeback next year he must find his comfort zone and that place in No. 2 in the order. If we do trade Ells for a big pitcher, Pedey could hit there, he could hit fourth, he could hit third, he could hit anywhere because it makes no difference to him. Unfortunately it makes a hell of a lot of difference to Crawford and since we are in hock up to our asses with his contract it stands to reason that we try to program to succeed, not fail again. Please guys, no more ******** about Carl batting leadoff. It is a losing proposition.

[seabeachfred]

the more the moon has come and gone and come back into light again' date=' the more the signs tell me that our pitching is going to be a complete mystery and with a lot of risks next year. I don't feel comfortable moving forward in that department.[/quote']

 

If Bard and Aceves are in the rotation next season they could either make it big or disappoint, but with their talent I'd say it most likely would be the former, and if some other former relievers like Wilson and Ogondo can make the transfer then so should our two. Still, I don't think the Red Sox will spend big for Madson or any other top notch closer so for that reason I'd like to keep them in the pen and trade for a decent No. 3 or 4 starter and take a chance with a risk signing for No. 5 so long as it isn't Wakefield.

 

Putting Ace and Bard in the rotation without a sure fire bullpen could mean a lot of 14-10 games and we could be on the losing end of a lot of them. Since I have lost whatever confidence I had in the procrastinating and slow witted Cherington, Lucchino will have to offer help and put all the front office heads together and determine which pitcher(s) to go after. It would also be great if one of our young "prospects" suddenly show something next spring but when their names are Bowden, Weiland or Doubrant, that could be like tryin to eat soup with a fork.

[iortiz]

If Bard and Aceves are in the rotation next season they could either make it big or disappoint, but with their talent I'd say it most likely would be the former, and if some other former relievers like Wilson and Ogondo can make the transfer then so should our two. Still, I don't think the Red Sox will spend big for Madson or any other top notch closer so for that reason I'd like to keep them in the pen and trade for a decent No. 3 or 4 starter and take a chance with a risk signing for No. 5 so long as it isn't Wakefield.

 

Putting Ace and Bard in the rotation without a sure fire bullpen could mean a lot of 14-10 games and we could be on the losing end of a lot of them. Since I have lost whatever confidence I had in the procrastinating and slow witted Cherington, Lucchino will have to offer help and put all the front office heads together and determine which pitcher(s) to go after. It would also be great if one of our young "prospects" suddenly show something next spring but when their names are Bowden, Weiland or Doubrant, that could be like tryin to eat soup with a fork.

 

 

I don't like how this soup smell Fred, at all.