2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

He seems intent on re-signing Ortiz in his comments, which makes absolutely no sense.

[SoxSport]

The more I hear the more I'm convinced that we should grab Andrew Friedman....

 

The Phillies ate our lunch again. If NY eats our lunch with the SP or DH as well, I will be an official Cherington's hater.

 

If the Phillies had Bard, they wouldn't have signed Pap.

 

Bard is a closer in waiting. If he wasn't, Pap would have been given an offer. That was probably the plan all along.

[User Name]

Cherington said so himself, but RSN needs to blame someone.

[Elktonnick]

Actually I am worried that Cherington is just waiting for the price on Ortiz to keep going down but I honestly do not want Ortiz at this point and if he continues to pursue Ortiz in any way shape or form then I think the chances go up considerably that they do in fact trade Ells this year. You just cannot go into the season this left handed.

 

I am fifty/fifty on Ortiz. I do think if we concentrate on pitching then these other questions should fall into place. But we are too left handed plus Ortiz with A-Gon at first makes it really tough during interleague play. Sizemore makes no sense, no matter how cheap. It's still a roster spot.

[Elktonnick]

Cherington said so himself' date=' but RSN needs to blame someone.[/quote']

 

I thought Cherington walked back that comment about Bard closing a bit with his last statement.

[iortiz]

Buckley et al just said on CSNE that Cherington never made an offer to Paps. They felt Paps wanted to go and the FO knew that hence no real effort. Makes me wonder if they won't do anything on Ortiz as well. Also what role if any does Liverpool play in what's going on or not going on.

 

If they land David Villa, JH definitely is thinking in big on his soccer team.

[User Name]

I thought Cherington walked back that comment about Bard closing a bit with his last statement.

 

He pretty much said they weren't going to commit that amount of money or years on a reliever and i don't blame them.

 

Hey iortiz, weren't you just a couple of posts ago saying that you weren't ready to commit big years/dollars on a pitcher, yet are surprised they didn't sign Papelbon?

 

Which is it?

[example1]

If the Phillies had Bard, they wouldn't have signed Pap.

 

Bard is a closer in waiting. If he wasn't, Pap would have been given an offer. That was probably the plan all along.

 

Exactly.

 

This place is a bitchfest. You don't overpay for a guy who is demanding to be one of the highest paid in his position when you could net draft picks and replace him with a 7th or 8th inning guy instead, while also having a guy who is younger, has better stuff, and who might sign for a longer term contract.

[iortiz]

If the Phillies had Bard, they wouldn't have signed Pap.

 

Bard is a closer in waiting. If he wasn't, Pap would have been given an offer. That was probably the plan all along.

 

Maybe he wil be our closer, but IMO he is not ready yet.

[Elktonnick]

If they land David Villa' date=' JH is definitely thinking in big on his soccer team.[/quote']

 

Liverpool certainly has the potential for a huge financial windfall since Henry et al got for less than half what it was worth 2 years ago.

[example1]

If they land David Villa' date=' JH definitely is thinking in big on his soccer team.[/quote']

 

John Henry laughs at the idea that you expect him to be pouring over statistics and scouting video to figure out which baseball players to sign and resign. He pays Larry Lucchino lots of money to make sure that other people do that stuff so he can enjoy his investments.

[User Name]

Exactly.

 

This place is a bitchfest. You don't overpay for a guy who is demanding to be one of the highest paid in his position when you could net draft picks and replace him with a 7th or 8th inning guy instead, while also having a guy who is younger, has better stuff, and who might sign for a longer term contract.

 

Lots of short-term memories here.

 

People seem to be forgetting about this guy, this guy, and this guy.

 

How'd those contracts turn out?

[iortiz]

John Henry laughs at the idea that you expect him to be pouring over statistics and scouting video to figure out which baseball players to sign and resign. He pays Larry Lucchino lots of money to make sure that other people do that stuff so he can enjoy his investments.

 

mmm that is not what I meant, but I'm agree with you.

[User Name]

mmm that is not what I meant' date=' but I'm agree with you. [/quote']

 

Answer this question please:

 

Hey iortiz, weren't you just a couple of posts ago saying that you weren't ready to commit big years/dollars on a pitcher, yet are surprised they didn't sign Papelbon?

 

Which is it?

[iortiz]

Answer this question please:

 

Ohhh... You got me wrong my friend, I meant commit long term contracts in SPs no named Felix, Verlander, Cain, Weaver, etc.

 

I wouldn't commit a lot money and a long term contract in a guy like Jackson, would you? That was the nature of that conversation.

 

Pap is arguably the today's best closer in the game and is only 30.

[User Name]

Ohhh... You got me wrong my friend, I meant commit long term contracts in SPs no named Felix, Verlander, Cain, Weaver, etc.

 

I wouldn't commit a lot money and a long term contract in a guy like Jackson, would you? That was the nature of that conversation.

 

Pap is arguably the today's best closer in the game and is only 30.

 

So you would commit to a long-term contract on a relief pitcher, but not on a 200-ip a year starter?

[example1]

I don't love the idea of Papelbon pitching elsewhere, but I didn't love it 4 years ago when it was virtually certain that he would be leaving unless the Sox drastically overpaid for him. I'm happy he didn't end up in NY like many feared he would.

 

Fortunately: a) The Sox have a really good potential closer in waiting and this is a closer rich free agency period with relatively few buyers.

[iortiz]

So you would commit to a long-term contract on a relief pitcher' date=' but not on a 200-ip a year starter?[/quote']

 

as I said, If the name is Jackson, no.

 

Pap is not "another" relief pitcher. He is a closer and is argubly the best in the position these days.

[iortiz]

As I said as well, I like Jackson but with a reasonable contract, maybe 1 year and another juicy year option, but no more.

[example1]

as I said, If the name is Jackson, no.

 

Pap is not "another" relief pitcher. He is a closer and is argubly the best in the position these days.

 

I would pick Rivera over Papelbon in a big game situation 10 times out of 10.

 

That's not to say Papelbon is bad, he's just not as money as Rivera.

[jung]

Rivera has better options for out pitches and there are times when he gets two strikes on you and you are just dead. Pap for the most part still has to come after you with the fastball and there are just so many times that you can rear back and just throw it harder. Eventually you run out of gas or if the opposing hitter sees enough pitches by fouling them off, the advantage can shift from the pitcher to the hitter.

[iortiz]

I would pick Rivera over Papelbon in a big game situation 10 times out of 10.

 

That's not to say Papelbon is bad, he's just not as money as Rivera.

 

Would you sign Rivera over Papelbon for a 4 year contract these days?

[a700hitter]

Exactly.

 

This place is a bitchfest. You don't overpay for a guy who is demanding to be one of the highest paid in his position when you could net draft picks and replace him with a 7th or 8th inning guy instead, while also having a guy who is younger, has better stuff, and who might sign for a longer term contract.

The contract he got was very reasonable and it would have taken him to the creaky old age of 34.

 

Tell me this E1, where are we going to find a lock down 8th inning guy like Bard? Answer, we will not. Add to that the fact that Bard may not have the necessary closer mentality and you might very well have weakened the team in the 8th and 9th innings. You like stats. Check the stats for the Sox for games when they were ahead going into the 8th inning. Until Bard and Papelbon melted down at the tail end of their seasons, the record was phenomenal. That 8th and 9th inning stability will be substantially eroded and that will have a cascading effect to an already weak remainder of the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

I would pick Rivera over Papelbon in a big game situation 10 times out of 10.

 

That's not to say Papelbon is bad, he's just not as money as Rivera.

Of course you would. But I don't remember Papelbon blowing the save in the 7th game of a World Series or a deciding game of an ALCS against his teams arch rival. Rivera is great, but papelbon is pretty great in his own right. IOrtiz's point is that Papelbon has more road ahead of him than Mo does.

[iortiz]

Of course you would. But I don't remember Papelbon blowing the save in the 7th game of a World Series or a deciding game of an ALCS against his teams arch rival. Rivera is great' date=' but papelbon is pretty great in his own right. [b']IOrtiz's point is that Papelbon has more road ahead of him than Mo does[/b].

 

Bingo.

 

Pap is 30, Mo? 42.

[a700hitter]

Bingo.

 

Pap is 30, Mo? 42.

E1 will never answer your question. Like a politician he answers his own question which is totally different.

[iortiz]

E1 will never answer your question. Like a politician he answers his own question which is totally different.

 

[Palodios]

The contract he got was very reasonable and it would have taken him to the creaky old age of 34.

 

Tell me this E1, where are we going to find a lock down 8th inning guy like Bard?

 

Firstly, Papelbon will be one month away from 36 when the contract ends, if the option vests. If the option doesn't vest, it already means the contract was a failure, so we have to assume it will vest. And what is wrong with Aceves in the 8th? Nowhere as good as Bard, but he's still a very good option. The problem is filling the #5 starter slot.

[User Name]

Firstly' date=' Papelbon will be one month away from 36 when the contract ends, if the option vests. If the option doesn't vest, it already means the contract was a failure, so we have to assume it will vest. And what is wrong with Aceves in the 8th? Nowhere as good as Bard, but he's still a very good option. The problem is filling the #5 starter slot.[/quote']

 

Noooo, the sky is falling, the Phillies ate the Sox' lunch, and Papelbon will never be replaced.

[Palodios]

Of course you would. But I don't remember Papelbon blowing the save in the 7th game of a World Series or a deciding game of an ALCS against his teams arch rival. Rivera is great' date=' but papelbon is pretty great in his own right. IOrtiz's point is that Papelbon has more road ahead of him than Mo does.[/quote']

 

It sounds like you're forgetting how 2009 and 2011 ended.