2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Also, I'm kind of yes and no to signing Ellsbury to a big contract. He has been fantastic this year but this is the only year he's been like that. 2010 he was injured so we really don't know what to expect. The years before that he hasn't performed anywhere near this level. If he is this power hitter we've seen in 2011 though, we'd be idiots not to sign him.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I like your list. I don't know much about Dave Martinez' date=' except that he was a pretty heady ballplayer.[/quote']

 

To be honest, I chose Dave Martinez because I don't know jack about the other managers you guys mentioned. Plus, I figured if he is working with Maddon he can't be that bad.

[Cairns_Sox]

What's everyone got against LaRussa? He has proven this year he can get it done. I'd rather him then Martinez. I think ownership stated the other night thy want someone with managerial experience. I think it's a must in Boson next season.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't have anything against him. I said I don't think he is leaving.

[jung]

Like the list. My only glitch would be Ortiz and money but if he could be had for decent money I would resign him. I don't want to see them pay him big bucks because I am tired of seeing them backed into the dedicated DH thing.

 

Martinez is my first choice for skipper.

 

If CJ pitches regularly like he has pitched tonight, that would be a big deal for the Sox. I think the pub on him has been that he has been a little erratic but maybe expected coming out of the pen to the rotation. His performance tonight was the best Strike 1 performance I have seen in the playoffs so far and we all know the importance of Strike 1.

[SoxSport]

Here's a few things I'd like to see happen this offseason(In no particular order)

 

1) Get CJ Wilson - There was too much pressure on Lester and Beckett IMO especially with Buchholz going down. Not sure how Buchholz and Dice-K will perform next year with the 2011 injuries. Lackey is just a turd. I'm usually optimistic about our players but Lackey sucks ass.

2) Get rid of Bogar - He's an idiot. No need to explain.

3) Resign Papelbon and Ortiz - Not sure why anyone would disagree. If somehow we don't get Papelbon, get Heath Bell. Leave Bard as setup man.

4) Get rid of Wakefield - Much respect for the guy but time to hang em' up old guy. It's been a long career and you got your 200.

5) Dave Martinez for Red Sox manager - Don't think LaRussa will be leaving. Martinez is working under a great manager. White Sox got Robin Ventura so maybe we can get him.

6) Pick up Scutaro's option - No one will be pleading for Jed Lowrie now, am I right?

 

I think they should wipe the slate on the coaching staff.

Signing another top starter should be a priority. But everybody wants to do that. The Yankees will, too.

Lackey, Wake and Tek should be replaced. Need the roster spots for younger players.

 

I would not extend Ortiz--they need more versatility at DH--somebody who can play positions- to give them some depth. I think Epstein made a mistake picking up Papi's option last year vs keeping VMart--even though Papi had a good year--unexpected. I wouldn't expect him to repeat it. Vmart would have given them more depth. He's batting cleanup tonite for Detroit in the playoffs.

[Spitball]

What's everyone got against LaRussa? He has proven this year he can get it done. I'd rather him then Martinez. I think ownership stated the other night thy want someone with managerial experience. I think it's a must in Boson next season.

 

I do not understand the Martinez support. I would rather have a former catcher or infielder. I just feel they have been trained with years of experience in important strategical aspects of the game.

 

Tony LaRussa is a no for me. He is a jerk. He over manages. Shreds pitchers arms. Plus, he owes much of his success to Dave Duncan who has a sick wife and is likely to retire after this season.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I think they should wipe the slate on the coaching staff.

Signing another top starter should be a priority. But everybody wants to do that. The Yankees will, too.

Lackey, Wake and Tek should be replaced. Need the roster spots for younger players.

 

I would not extend Ortiz--they need more versatility at DH--somebody who can play positions- to give them some depth. I think Epstein made a mistake picking up Papi's option last year vs keeping VMart--even though Papi had a good year--unexpected. I wouldn't expect him to repeat it. Vmart would have given them more depth. He's batting cleanup tonite for Detroit in the playoffs.

 

Interesting.

 

I don't get how people think Lackey is going to get off this team. We're not going to eat his salary and no one wants him. He put up like the worst numbers in Boston history. If this was mlb thee show then maybe. With Tek gone do we go with Salty and Lavarnway? I agree losing V-Mart was a mistake but signing Papi was not.

[a700hitter]

Interesting.

 

I don't get how people think Lackey is going to get off this team. We're not going to eat his salary and no one wants him. He put up like the worst numbers in Boston history. If this was mlb thee show then maybe. With Tek gone do we go with Salty and Lavarnway? I agree losing V-Mart was a mistake but signing Papi was not.

Unfortunately, Lackey will be on the team next season barring an injury in the offseason. We can pray. The Sox will say that he is ramping up his conditioning and modifying his diet and whatever else. He'll be said to be very serious about turning things around and yada yada yada, but the truth is he is a sinking ship taking on water very fast. I expect that he will give us less next season than the last two seasons.

 

The Mets have a similar sinking ship-- Jason Bay. His head is so screwed up playing for the Mets that it is painful to watch. The Mets will try to salvage him like we will try to salvage Lackey. The Mets have been considering plans to lower and bring in the left field fence with the hope of reviving his career. I don't think it will work. Both lackey and Bay need a change of scenery. Put Lackey in the pitchers park in the NL and he might not be a total suck bag. Fenway and the Red Sox lineup could help Bay recover. We do need a RF. Bay has a terribly weak arm, but he could be an adequate stopgap. Maybe he could platoon with Kalish.

 

It would be a bold wacky move, but neither team has anything to lose.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

If you expect Lackey to do worse than his 1st two season with us then we absolutely need CJ Wilson and BAD. I didn't even think it was possible to get any worse.

 

No thanks on Bay. I'll take my chances with Kalish.

[a700hitter]

If you expect Lackey to do worse than his 1st two season with us then we absolutely need CJ Wilson and BAD. I didn't even think it was possible to get any worse.

 

No thanks on Bay. I'll take my chances with Kalish.

Kalish is not ready for full time major league time. We need a righty bat to pair up with him.

 

I don't see Lackey finishing next season. I see another s***ing of the bed and him being DL'd or DFA's before the All Star break. He's really slipped, and he never had ace stuff.

[SCM33]

Interesting.

 

I don't get how people think Lackey is going to get off this team. We're not going to eat his salary and no one wants him. He put up like the worst numbers in Boston history. If this was mlb thee show then maybe. With Tek gone do we go with Salty and Lavarnway? I agree losing V-Mart was a mistake but signing Papi was not.

 

Well, this depends.

 

If this management group is serious about winning, they will get rid of him and eat most of his salary because we almost have zero chance of winning with the WORST starting pitcher in baseball taking the mound every 5 days.

 

If the RedSox eat 10M per year on his deal, he is much more attractive to some small market, zero pressure situation team.

 

Like I said, this depends, if they are serious about change and winning.....they will cut bait and get rid of the players that drag this team down....even if that means eating those mistakes.

[example1]

I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say they can't win with Lackey pitching every 5th day. They had a great record despite hid ineptitude for 3/4 of the season this year. I think he is due to rebound... Maybe the way a freshly cooked, golden brown thanksgiving turkey rebounds after it hits the kitchen floor an hour before dinner, perhaps only a few inches, but it does bounce.

 

I'm torn on CJ Wilson. The rangers will have a very strong interest And incentive to retain him, which means the Sox will undoubtedly have to overpay in money or years or both. If the Rangers aren't willing to pony up the money it takes to get him, I hope the sox will think twice because an overpay is an overpay no matter how good the player is. The rangers may be smart enough to not hamstring themselves... The Sox should take note.

 

What incentive aside from money would anpitcher like him have to pick the Sox over a team like Texas? If it is money then why should the sox pay it? Doesn't seem wise to me. Admittedly, I would haven passed on Cliff Lee a few years ago when be was leaving Cleveland so my soft-tossing-lefty-radar may be broken. I defer to the expertise of others there.

[Cairns_Sox]

Luchinno and Henry seemed to think he will bounce back. I think when asked the question if Lackey could recover, the answer was "absolutey". Henry also went on to say how inconsistent pitchers are. I think its an outrage if he returns.

[Palodios]

Luchinno and Henry seemed to think he will bounce back. I think when asked the question if Lackey could recover' date=' the answer was "absolutey". Henry also went on to say how inconsistent pitchers are. I think its an outrage if he returns.[/quote']

 

Lackey is going absolutely nowhere. I don't understand what people think is going to happen. No one is going to pay anything for him, whatsoever. Give him a little time to work through the death of his child and his divorce, and he's far more likely to pitch like he did in 2010 than he did in 2011.

[example1]

Lackey is going absolutely nowhere. I don't understand what people think is going to happen. No one is going to pay anything for him' date=' whatsoever. Give him a little time to work through the death of his child and his divorce, and he's far more likely to pitch like he did in 2010 than he did in 2011.[/quote']

 

Lackey is very likely not going anywhere. You're right. Ideas about trading him for virtually no return while paying for the opportunity for him to pitch elsewhere just seems stupid. At least just rehab him and see if they can make something servicable out of him.

[example1]

Herald:

 

There are few compelling reasons why the Sox should not re-sign Ortiz, but the biggest could be that Ortiz, after being rebuffed on a contract extension last year, makes contract demands that the Sox deem unreasonable. He is likely to ask for at least three guaranteed years in his next deal, while the Sox likely want to stick at two with perhaps an option.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_1007papi_tekin_question_sox_face_decisions_on_dh_c/srvc=sports&position=also

 

I have no clue where the report/speculation comes from but it is typical of the way contract negotiations have tended to go, so it doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

Ortiz for 3 years? No thanks.

 

He had a 1.10 GB/FB this year, after previous seasons of .85, .64, .81, .83, .78, .68, .75, .87, .73. He always hit more FB but this year put the ball on the ground more. He had a 4 season low in infield fly balls, and a 6 season high in line-drive percentage.

 

His K rate was the lowest of his career.

 

Honestly, I don't trust any of it.

 

How can a team that has so many bad contracts offer a 3 year deal to a guy who just had a huge contract year (4.2 WAR) after a few mediocre seasons (4.8 WAR total over previous 3 seasons--2.6, 0.3, 1.9).

 

I really think they would be okay finding someone else if Ortiz doesn't accept one year with an option.

[a700hitter]

Herald:

 

 

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_1007papi_tekin_question_sox_face_decisions_on_dh_c/srvc=sports&position=also

 

I have no clue where the report/speculation comes from but it is typical of the way contract negotiations have tended to go, so it doesn't seem unreasonable.

 

Ortiz for 3 years? No thanks.

 

He had a 1.10 GB/FB this year, after previous seasons of .85, .64, .81, .83, .78, .68, .75, .87, .73. He always hit more FB but this year put the ball on the ground more. He had a 4 season low in infield fly balls, and a 6 season high in line-drive percentage.

 

His K rate was the lowest of his career.

 

Honestly, I don't trust any of it.

 

How can a team that has so many bad contracts offer a 3 year deal to a guy who just had a huge contract year (4.2 WAR) after a few mediocre seasons (4.8 WAR total over previous 3 seasons--2.6, 0.3, 1.9).

 

I really think they would be okay finding someone else if Ortiz doesn't accept one year with an option.

He has to have a negotiating starting point. If he asks for 2 years, they will not even offer him 1 season with a player option. I'm still not sure what you don't trust about his performance. Is it his age that makes you think he can't sustain it? Are you going down the PED road again? If you look, his 2010 season wasn't too shabby. He had trouble with lefties, but he absolutely pummeled righties. If he is taking PEDs, why would he stop now? I'm sure that he would like to play for 3 or 4 years, so if he's juicing, he'll keep doing it. Again, I'm not sure what you don't trust. It's a little strange that Ortiz hit lefties better (that's the only improvement in his game) and you go down the PED path. Couldn't we do that with everyone who has a big year? Ellsbury had the most astounding breakout season, especially power-wise. Should we be suspect of him too?

[example1]

He has to have a negotiating starting point. If he asks for 2 years' date=' they will not even offer him 1 season with a player option. I'm still not sure what you don't trust about his performance. Is it his age that makes you think he can't sustain it? Are you going down the PED road again? If you look, his 2010 season wasn't too shabby. He had trouble with lefties, but he absolutely pummeled righties. If he is taking PEDs, why would he stop now? I'm sure that he would like to play for 3 or 4 years, so if he's juicing, he'll keep doing it. Again, I'm not sure what you don't trust. It's a little strange that Ortiz hit lefties better (that's the only improvement in his game) and you go down the PED path. Couldn't we do that with everyone who has a big year? Ellsbury had the most astounding breakout season, especially power-wise. Should we be suspect of him too?[/quote']

 

I'm just suspicions, can't exactly pinpoint why. All of the numbers strike me as odd.

 

As far as PEDs go, I'm not okay with guys using PEDs. You've mentioned a few times that "he can just keep juicing", which implies that his performance will continue to be good so what's the big deal?

 

For me that's playing with fire. I think it is cheating and don't want it associated with my team, to the degree that it is avoidable. On a more practical side of things, I don't want him to get a long suspension.

 

Finally, I don't think that players will just keep using it indefinitely. Once they get a payday they have to weigh the desire to produce with the desire to not get caught and be forever blacklisted in the game.

 

2 years would be okay at a reasonable price.

[a700hitter]

I'm just suspicions, can't exactly pinpoint why. All of the numbers strike me as odd.

 

As far as PEDs go, I'm not okay with guys using PEDs. You've mentioned a few times that "he can just keep juicing", which implies that his performance will continue to be good so what's the big deal?

 

For me that's playing with fire. I think it is cheating and don't want it associated with my team, to the degree that it is avoidable. On a more practical side of things, I don't want him to get a long suspension.

 

Finally, I don't think that players will just keep using it indefinitely. Once they get a payday they have to weigh the desire to produce with the desire to not get caught and be forever blacklisted in the game.

 

2 years would be okay at a reasonable price.

I think it is just a little strange that you would suspect Ortiz of PED use for not quite returning to the form of his prime. He had a really good season, but he was significantly better in his prime. Why don't you suspect Ellsbury for his power surge which came out of the blue?

[example1]

I think it is just a little strange that you would suspect Ortiz of PED use for not quite returning to the form of his prime. He had a really good season' date=' but he was significantly better in his prime. Why don't you suspect Ellsbury for his power surge which came out of the blue?[/quote']

 

Because other similar players have had similar power with a frame like Ellsbury so it's not out of the realm of possibility (Granderson, Sizemore, just off the top of my head), Ellsbury is a truly exceptional athelete (Ortiz is not), and Ellsbury doesn't have a known history of PED use (Ortiz does). Is that really so hard to see? That said, I wouldn't be completely shocked if Ellsbury were nailed for PED use, I just trust until I don't have a reason to and then I'm highly skeptical.

 

EDIT: And it's not that I strongly suspect Ortiz of PED use. I'm just not naive enough (and neither are you) to say with 100% certainty that it couldn't possibly be a factor. Sorry Mr. Ortiz, that's one of the consequences of using in the first place. It's my right as a fan to not fall in love with him a second time.

[a700hitter]

Because other similar players have had similar power with a frame like Ellsbury so it's not out of the realm of possibility (Granderson' date=' Sizemore, just off the top of my head), Ellsbury is a truly exceptional athelete (Ortiz is not), and Ellsbury doesn't have a known history of PED use (Ortiz does). Is that really so hard to see? That said, I wouldn't be [i']completely[/i] shocked if Ellsbury were nailed for PED use, I just trust until I don't have a reason to and then I'm highly skeptical.

 

EDIT: And it's not that I strongly suspect Ortiz of PED use. I'm just not naive enough (and neither are you) to say with 100% certainty that it couldn't possibly be a factor. Sorry Mr. Ortiz, that's one of the consequences of using in the first place. It's my right as a fan to not fall in love with him a second time.

Sizemore and Granderson have had 20+ HR power since they hit the majors. They didn't go from being a 9 HR guy to 30 HRs over night. Granderson's jump to 40 can be explained by the Yankee RF porch. Ortiz hit 29 this season. He used to be a 35-40 guy. He's been passing drug tests since 2003. Ellsbury's spike is more suspicious if you ask me. Ortiz power is on the decline.

[a700hitter]

EDIT: And it's not that I strongly suspect Ortiz of PED use. I'm just not naive enough (and neither are you) to say with 100% certainty that it couldn't possibly be a factor. Sorry Mr. Ortiz' date=' that's one of the consequences of using in the first place. It's my right as a fan to not fall in love with him a second time.[/quote']Fall in love? How could he ever displace Theo. Maybe Theo is off the juice and that's why he has lost his edge over the last 3-4 years?

[Spitball]

I would hope the Sox would hold firm at no more than two years. I do not want him to sign with the Yankees, though. I just don't want to even think about that. I am just now getting over them signing Louis Tiant away thirty-something years ago...and I'm not kidding.

[example1]

Sizemore and Granderson have had 20+ HR power since they hit the majors. They didn't go from being a 9 HR guy to 30 HRs over night. Granderson's jump to 40 can be explained by the Yankee RF porch. Ortiz hit 29 this season. He used to be a 35-40 guy. He's been passing drug tests since 2003. Ellsbury's spike is more suspicious if you ask me. Ortiz power is on the decline.

 

Okay, so you can suspect Ellsbury of using PEDs to assess whether the Sox want to resign him moving forward. That's fine with me. It's not what we're talking about though.

 

Am I not allowed to be suspicious of Ortiz's return to dominance after 3 sub-par seasons, in a contract season, at the age of 35? Is that not allowed here? He's acknowledged that he used in the past. That makes me immediately suspicious of anyone.

[example1]

Fall in love? How could he ever displace Theo. Maybe Theo is off the juice and that's why he has lost his edge over the last 3-4 years?

 

You're such a dick.

[a700hitter]

You're such a dick.

Agreed. Finally, common ground.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would hope the Sox would hold firm at no more than two years. I do not want him to sign with the Yankees' date=' though.[/b'] I just don't want to even think about that. I am just now getting over them signing Louis Tiant away thirty-something years ago...and I'm not kidding.

 

Cashman is too smart to sign Ortiz while he's paying A-Rod and Jeter a combined $45mm to split time between 3B/SS and DH.

 

The contracts that the Yankees have on Jeter and ARod doesn't allow them to have a designated DH. They have to use the rotation.

 

The Angels would be a big player, IMO. With Haren and Weaver, they've got the pitching, but they need a big bat.

[a700hitter]

Okay, so you can suspect Ellsbury of using PEDs to assess whether the Sox want to resign him moving forward. That's fine with me. It's not what we're talking about though.

 

Am I not allowed to be suspicious of Ortiz's return to dominance after 3 sub-par seasons, in a contract season, at the age of 35? Is that not allowed here? He's acknowledged that he used in the past. That makes me immediately suspicious of anyone.

I don't suspect Ellsbury. I'm just using him as an example that we could suspect lots of people.

 

As for Ortiz's "return to dominance", he had a monster year against righties in 2010, much better than he did in 2011. In 2010, he in fact had a very strong overall year. In 2011, he made an adjustment to take lefties the other way. I don't think PED's help you do that. His power output stayed at the same, and it went down significantly against righties. I don't think PED's would help you against lefties but hurt your performance against righties. That just doesn't make sense. The fact is that once Ortiz got over his wrist injury, he has remained a big force since June 2009. You can suspect, but I think you are way off base. I posted in this forum in May of 2009 that Ortiz still had bat speed and that his obit was premature. Look at his overall stats from June 2009, not his splits, and you will see that he has been a very consistent offensive force since then. 2011 was not such a big bounce back season. He made adjustments to keep himself from becoming a platoon player, but those adjustments actually hurt his performance against righties.

[jung]

At least just rehab him and see if they can make something servicable out of him.

 

Has there been some physical disability news on Lackey? Normally rehab refers to a physical disability. The only thing I saw was that he came into came in decent shape and gained weight through the season as many of them did.

 

Lackey has problems dropping down and it appears to me that he must throw over the top. When his arm drops down it puts his slider in a very good place to hit it. However I really can not blame fatigue as he would do it from the windup from the stretch, early in games, late in games, sporadically within games....more like a lack of concentration thing. I don't think you could reliably depend on Young to come out and tell him he was dropping down either. In fact I don't think I can recall Young coming out to help Lackey when his mechanics seemed to go off.