The Optimism Thread

[BornToRun]

Shifting pieces from the pen is not adding talent. If Buchholz gets injured' date=' the pitching will not be better than it was last year, IMO. Good for you that you think we can withstand the injuries we have had plus a loss of Buch. I can't get to that analysis.[/quote']

 

The rotation is vastly more important to our success than the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

The rotation is vastly more important to our success than the bullpen.

You need them both to win. You can't win with a suckass bullpen, and our rotation will not look so hot if Buch doesn't rebound and stay healthy.

[BornToRun]

You need them both to win. You can't win with a suckass bullpen' date=' and our rotation will not look so hot if Buch doesn't rebound and stay healthy.[/quote']

 

But the bullpen is already looking better and we were never going to be that horrid for a full season. If it ever becomes such a problem I'm sure the management would look to free agents, trades, or the minors before gutting the rotation.

[a700hitter]

But the bullpen is already looking better and we were never going to be that horrid for a full season. If it ever becomes such a problem I'm sure the management would look to free agents' date=' trades, or the minors before gutting the rotation.[/quote']We're going around in circles. After last season, many people pointed to Buch's return to good health as a key in 2012. I still believe it is a key. We have taken some injury blows early and our bull pen is thin, regardless of them doing better over the last week. Buch's performance is critical to our success, IMO. It's your prerogative to believe that we can beat the Yankees without a closer, Ellsbury, Crawford and an under performing Buchholz. I can buy into most of that, just not the Buchholz part. Thank goodness he is looking good tonight.

[BornToRun]

We're going around in circles. After last season' date=' many people pointed to Buch's return to good health as a key in 2012. I still believe it is a key. We have taken some injury blows early and our bull pen is thin, regardless of them doing better over the last week. Buch's performance is critical to our success, IMO. It's your prerogative to believe that we can beat the Yankees without a closer, Ellsbury, Crawford and an under performing Buchholz. I can buy into most of that, just not the Buchholz part. Thank goodness he is looking good tonight.[/quote']

 

I agree with you that having clay is hugely important to our success, we need him to be a solid pitcher. I just think that we can make it without him at his best. The injuries suck but I think we can adapt and make due. Will we need Crawford, ells, bailey, and clay in October? They'd sure as Hell would help. I guess I misunderstood your wording. I see what you mean and I guess I agree to a point, I'm just willing to give clay a longer leash and think we can hang in until people get healthy.

[a700hitter]

I agree with you that having clay is hugely important to our success' date=' we need him to be a solid pitcher. I just think that we can make it without him at his best. The injuries suck but I think we can adapt and make due. Will we need Crawford, ells, bailey, and clay in October? They'd sure as Hell would help. I guess I misunderstood your wording. I see what you mean and I guess I agree to a point, I'm just willing to give clay a longer leash and think we can hang in until people get healthy.[/quote']Clay will get plenty of leash. There is no better alternative to getting him on track. If he doesn't get on track within the next month, I'll really be worried.

[ORS]

We're going around in circles. After last season' date=' many people pointed to Buch's return to good health as a key in 2012. I still believe it is a key. We have taken some injury blows early and our bull pen is thin, regardless of them doing better over the last week. Buch's performance is critical to our success, IMO. It's your prerogative to believe that we can beat the Yankees without a closer, Ellsbury, Crawford and an under performing Buchholz. I can buy into most of that, just not the Buchholz part. Thank goodness he is looking good tonight.[/quote']

A lot of that was predicated on the unknowns in the last two rotation spots. If Doubront and Bard can keep up their early performances, Buchholz becomes less critical.

[a700hitter]

A lot of that was predicated on the unknowns in the last two rotation spots. If Doubront and Bard can keep up their early performances' date=' Buchholz becomes less critical.[/quote']I disagree. He is still critical. While Bard and Doubront have been better than expected, the bullpen has been far worse than expected.

[Palodios]

I disagree. He is still critical. While Bard and Doubront have been better than expected' date=' the bullpen has been far worse than expected.[/quote']

 

You have to admit, there have been an unexpectedly good number of things that have gone right for the Red Sox's rotation. Lester and Beckett look like they're healthy, and will get back to pitching where they should. Doubront came out of nowhere to have some very good outings so far. Cook is pitching very well in AAA, and even Dice-k is making his way back to the roster faster than expected.

 

 

There has been enough that has gone right that the Buchholz setback won't cripple the rotation. Replacing Buchholz with Cook isn't going to make the bullpen any worse.

[a700hitter]

You have to admit, there have been an unexpectedly good number of things that have gone right for the Red Sox's rotation. Lester and Beckett look like they're healthy, and will get back to pitching where they should. Doubront came out of nowhere to have some very good outings so far. Cook is pitching very well in AAA, and even Dice-k is making his way back to the roster faster than expected.

 

 

There has been enough that has gone right that the Buchholz setback won't cripple the rotation. Replacing Buchholz with Cook isn't going to make the bullpen any worse.

We need Buchholz to be good. IMO, his role is critical. Nothing good has happened yet with Cook or Dice K. Neither has pitched a game for us yet. I don't know what we can expect from either of them.

[a700hitter]

Replacing Buchholz with Cook isn't going to make the bullpen any worse.

Could anything make the bull pen worse?

[jacksonianmarch]

Pen WHIP for tonight was over 2, so no, they werent lights out. Buchholz had a pretty solid outing going through 6, but I think V remembered what happened vs the Yankees when he tried to give a kid a good feeling about a start and let him cook too long. He still wasnt around the plate like he usually was and his velo was down again. Still, 6 runs, 12 baserunners, 5 walks in 6.2IP against this offense is inexcuseable. Anyone ready to panic about him now??

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

David Ortiz. Enough said

[a700hitter]

David Ortiz. Enough said

The big man is carrying this team right now. What happens in less than a month when interleague games start? No Jacoby. No Crawford. No Big Papi?

[Station 13]

The big man is carrying this team right now. What happens in less than a month when interleague games start? No Jacoby. No Crawford. No Big Papi?

 

Next year interleague happens throughout the season and they said they will add 2 more series to 'balance' out the divisions.

[mvp 78]

High draft pick?

[yeszir]

Optimism: this team can't possibly continue to suck this bad

[jacksonianmarch]

Optimism: this team can't possibly continue to suck this bad

 

Well, at this time, the sox are on pace for 100 losses

[SoxFanForsyth]

Is it really possible for the Sox SP to be THIS bad??

 

I mean, Lester 4.29 ERA, Bard 4.94 ERA, Doubront 5.01, Beckett 5.97, Buchholz 9.09??

 

Look at those numbers!!

 

For any of those numbers to return to career norms, there is going to have to be some lights out pitching.

[jacksonianmarch]

You have no idea if Bard or Doubront will continue this way, get better, or worse. There is no precedent. Buchholz is not the same as he was, so he also isnt predictable. The only guys you can look at are Beckett and Lester. Lester has been decidedly mediocre the last 18 starts and Beckett goes into a shell in even seasons. It is possible that the numbers remain this bad

[a700hitter]

Well' date=' at this time, the sox are on pace for 100 losses[/quote']I love when young Red Sox fans tell me that I should be so grateful for the new ownership, because being a Red Sox fan from 1967-2000 was so terrible. Well, there was no wild card, and I did see 6 post seasons and 3 World Series. There were no championships, but we lost to the Big Red Machine and jim rice missed the series and we lost to Gibson's Cardinals. No shame in those losses. New ownership has had 1 non-wildcard playoff berth. Some things that new ownership have brought the fans that we never had before: 1. the highest ticket prices in baseball, 2. the biggest September Collapse in baseball history. If they lose 100 games that will be another first for me.

[mvp 78]

Did '86 not happen A700?

[a700hitter]

Did '86 not happen A700?

Yes, it did. The Mets were the far superior team. They should've run us off the field. I need to edit my prior post to include the third World Series.

[XxNicki MinajxX]

Well at least Middlebrooks is a good player !

[SoxFanForsyth]

Wow. It's amazing how well this team plays when it gets some quality starts strung together. Keep the ball rolling.

 

Also, the bullpen has quietly lowered its ERA to a 3.73 (not counting McDonalds outing).

 

Melancon has been looking very solid in AAA. Hopefully he figured something out.

 

Last - lets hope this SP staff can keep the line moving and string together a few rotations of quality starts. That's how this team can get back into this thing and at least be relevant. The SP has to carry them to June or July when guys like Ells and Craw are back.

 

And by the way, Crawford is going to be an impact player the 2nd half of the season. Sig that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm still not sure that this is a post season team, but if the rotation can throw like they are capable and pitch to the back of their baseball cards from today forward, we may be able to be in the hunt come September.

 

Forget the season ERA. Give me the back of the baseball card from 5/14 through the end of the year and we will be a team vying for the 2nd WC.

[iortiz]

I'm still not sure that this is a post season team, but if the rotation can throw like they are capable and pitch to the back of their baseball cards from today forward, we may be able to be in the hunt come September.

 

Forget the season ERA. Give me the back of the baseball card from 5/14 through the end of the year and we will be a team vying for the 2nd WC.

 

That's exactly what I forecasted in the offseason for the Sox at best . The race for the 2nd WC will be against NYY, I said. We'll see.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Beckett's last line: 2.1 IP, 7 ER (27.00 ERA)

 

Red Sox Starting Pitching since then: 27.1 IP, 6 ER (1.98 ERA)

 

Keep the ball rolling!!!

 

Like I said, this team always seems to get hot right around Mother's Day. Hopefully this is the hot streak we were looking for, and isn't just fools gold.

[a700hitter]

Beckett's last line: 2.1 IP, 7 ER (27.00 ERA)

 

Red Sox Starting Pitching since then: 27.1 IP, 6 ER (1.98 ERA)

 

Keep the ball rolling!!!

 

Like I said, this team always seems to get hot right around Mother's Day. Hopefully this is the hot streak we were looking for, and isn't just fools gold.

In order to go on a sustained run, the bullpen will have to be consistently good, and despite their recent good performance, I am not convinced that the pen has the arms to be consistently good. I don't have much trust in any of them to pitch the 8th inning. I am still not sold on Miller and Albers is scary. In the end, the pen is the weakest part of this team, but the easiest to fix. With a good pen, this team could get back into the race as long as the big 3 stabilize.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The Red Sox now have had their SP throw 4 consecutive games of 6 IP or more, 1 ER or less.

 

Don't think that's significant?

 

Last time the Sox did that was April 16 - April 19, 2011.

 

Their record going into the game on 4/16? 2-10.

 

Then they went on an 81-42 run.