The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Dipre]

Cameron=ugats. Cameron healthy only hits 250 career anyway. Not to mention he has beeb awful with the glove for the last idk when did he leave Seattle?

 

Yup, Cameron ended up being ugats, as i said in my own post. However, your point (incorrect point, i might add) was that no position players have been added in the past few years, which you couldn't refute, and responded with a whole lot of ugats.

[Palodios]

However, ugats was added to the bullpen last year. If we get ugats in the bullpen, that'd be a huge problem.

[Dipre]

However' date=' ugats was added to the bullpen last year. If we get ugats in the bullpen, that'd be a huge problem.[/quote']

 

Five words:

 

Bobby Jenks and Pedro Feliciano.

 

 

Please do it.

[Will617]

Rivera will resign for 2/30, Red Sox were reportedly offering 3/51. At least Theo's serious about the bullpen.

[example1]

Dunn is not the type of player Theo wants. He's been available a billion times in the past 5 years and never have the Red Sox even shown remote interest. I like Dunn but he was really never in the cards. Even if Beltre resigns then you still can rotate Youk/Agon out of the 1B/DH spot. Plus I believe Theo has shown interest in Fielder in the past and he'd be a natural fit for DH also in the future.

 

You are right about Dunn.

 

I look at Dunn and see his 40 HR, 100 RBI, .400 OBP and immediately try to compare him to full-time fielders like Fielder and Bay and Berkman. But Dunn--and probably a bunch of those other guys--is nothing more than a DH on the Red Sox. I don't think they will ever pay FA money for a horribe fielder at a busy position if they don't have to, so they're not going to move Youkilis to 3B to open a spot for Dunn to get on the field.

 

If we put any validity in the fielding statistics then we understand exactly why the Sox don't value Dunn and a host of other players as highly as other teams do. If Dunn were an 8m/yr player then fine, but the money saved can be spent better on bullpen, early extensions, other FA players, international signings and signing draft picks.

[example1]

Rivera will resign for 2/30, Red Sox were reportedly offering 3/51. At least Theo's serious about the bullpen.

 

Surprising. That's a lot of money to offer for Rivera. It would have the double impact of taking him from NY, and is a very aggressive move.

 

I can't help but see that as a hint about the Sox likely involvement in the Cliff Lee situation. If they're willing to offer $17m for a 41 year old closer when they have at least two decent CL options already, wouldn't they logically make a strong offer to Cliff Lee for the same reason?

 

I think they will inevitably lose out on the bidding for Lee, but it is something they have to pursue.

 

EDIT: Re: Martin

 

 

How could the Sox not be interested in Martin? They've liked him so far, he won't cost prospects, only made $5m last year, and he can play 3B in a pinch. My only question is whether he would be willing to be more of a role player than a starting catcher if that's how things worked out.

[BSN07]

Okay everyone, let's go over this for the umpteenth billion time. AGON IS NOT GOING TO COST THE FARM! How can some of you not grasp this concept.

 

1. He is coming off of shoulder surgery and although it's possible, it's very doubtful he get's traded before he get's back on the field.

2. SD is not going to trade him unless they are out of it. Who knows how long that will take, everyone was waiting for the shoe to drop there all season and it didn't until the last day of the season.

3. Everyone keeps thinking it's going to take a Tex to Atlanta package to get Agon now. This was probably true at last year's TDL. With SD holding on to him, they have let the window of opportunity for a large blue chip laden package close. Now they are looking more at a package that Atlanta got when shipping him to LA for 1/2 the season. A very average MLB player(Kotchman) and a middling prospect with a measurable amount of upside(Stephen Marek :clap:).

 

Kalish is almost an over pay at this point as far as prospects go.

[BSN07]

Surprising. That's a lot of money to offer for Rivera. It would have the double impact of taking him from NY, and is a very aggressive move.

 

I can't help but see that as a hint about the Sox likely involvement in the Cliff Lee situation. If they're willing to offer $17m for a 41 year old closer when they have at least two decent CL options already, wouldn't they logically make a strong offer to Cliff Lee for the same reason?

 

I think they will inevitably lose out on the bidding for Lee, but it is something they have to pursue.

 

EDIT: Re: Martin

 

 

 

How could the Sox not be interested in Martin? They've liked him so far, he won't cost prospects, only made $5m last year, and he can play 3B in a pinch. My only question is whether he would be willing to be more of a role player than a starting catcher if that's how things worked out.

 

Makes you wonder. But Mo could have just been using the Sox to get an extra year out of the Yankees, and maybe Theo knew this and knew he wasn't going to accept their offer.

 

I doubt the Sox will be interested in Martin unless they can put Salty in AAA(not sure of his option status). That would be decent depth for them. If Salty and Martin both come in hot in ST and gain some value they could move them for other pieces as well.

[The Celtbot]

I've seen some of you guys mentioning rotating Youk, AGON, and Beltre in the DH spot, but where does that leave Ortiz who is supposed to be our everyday DH? I guess it could work, however it just seems to be too many players to rotate.

[BSN07]

I've seen some of you guys mentioning rotating Youk' date=' AGON, and Beltre in the DH spot, but where does that leave Ortiz who is supposed to be our everyday DH? I guess it could work, however it just seems to be too many players to rotate.[/quote']

 

Ortiz is gone after next season most likely. They aren't getting Agon out of SD before June IMO. I suppose they could manage a log jam at 1B/3B/DH for a few months. It seems if they did bring Beltre back they would be waiting until 2012 to get Agon IMO. At which point Ortiz will be gone most likely. Youk will be under contract for 1 more season guaranteed + an option year. So the 1B/3B/DH jam might not seem as bad or be a deterrent for Agon coming to Boston as a FA.

[a700hitter]

Surprising. That's a lot of money to offer for Rivera. It would have the double impact of taking him from NY' date=' and is a very aggressive move.[/quote']They should have plenty of $ to get a couple of the other quality FA's to stock the pen.

 

EDIT: Re: Martin

 

 

 

How could the Sox not be interested in Martin? They've liked him so far, he won't cost prospects, only made $5m last year, and he can play 3B in a pinch. My only question is whether he would be willing to be more of a role player than a starting catcher if that's how things worked out.

I agree with you about Martin. The Dodgers didn't want to be on the hook for $4.4 million (after the biggest possible cut in arbitration), so they must think his FMV is substantially less. The Sox have thrown away $10 million on the old and injured like Smoltz and Penny. Martin is injured, but young. When healthy, the guy has great tools, and he can also play some third base. He's athletic and versatile. Some would term his acquisition as "low risk high reward.". I would more accurately describe it as a high risk flier which could have a big return. I'd do it. They have Salty as the fall back option. He can go to Pawtucket.

 

With regard to Beltre possibly blocking the way for AGon, I am not sure why so many people think he is sitting on a tee for us. I doubt there will be an in season trade to us, because the GM is going to want the perception that he got fleeced by his old boss or that he is in the tank for his old boss. Second, he will cost a bunch of $. He is going to be looking for a $200 million deal. It's not like this guy is some cheap great find. He's an elite player who is going to want elite money.

[a700hitter]

Daily Reminder to the FO:

 

Sign Carl Crawford!

 

Regular season tickets go on sale on December 13th. People are not going to be all charged up about spending a bundle to see Mike Cameron playing LF wearing a truss (sp), Jed (I have cough and will miss 3 months) Lowrie playing third base, and a parade of clowns coming in from the pen.

[Spudboy]

I read yesterday that Salty would have to clear waivers in order to be assigned to Pawtucket.

[BSN07]

They should have plenty of $ to get a couple of the other quality FA's to stock the pen.

 

I agree with you about Martin. The Dodgers didn't want to be on the hook for $4.4 million (after the biggest possible cut in arbitration), so they must think his FMV is substantially less. The Sox have thrown away $10 million on the old and injured like Smoltz and Penny. Martin is injured, but young. When healthy, the guy has great tools, and he can also play some third base. He's athletic and versatile. Some would term his acquisition as "low risk high reward.". I would more accurately describe it as a high risk flier which could have a big return. I'd do it. They have Salty as the fall back option. He can go to Pawtucket.

 

With regard to Beltre possibly blocking the way for AGon, I am not sure why so many people think he is sitting on a tee for us. I doubt there will be an in season trade to us, because the GM is going to want the perception that he got fleeced by his old boss or that he is in the tank for his old boss. Second, he will cost a bunch of $. He is going to be looking for a $200 million deal. It's not like this guy is some cheap great find. He's an elite player who is going to want elite money.

 

Wait you want the team to drop "elite" $ in Crawfords lap, but would have an issue with them doing it for Agon? Why cause you have to wait a season?

Agon is a way more complete hitter, and fits the mold of what the Red Sox need in the middle of their line up much more then Crawford does. You plead and plead for this FO to sign big name talent, and when a deal that makes sense all around comes up, you all the sudden change your mind?

 

What if it's Pujols? Is 200M still too much of an investment?

 

And feeling fleeced or not Hoyer is not going to get a big return from any GM he trades with.

 

And exactly who is going to out spend the Red Sox for Agon? The situation wil be similar to that of the Yankees and Lee dealing this ff season. Everyone is going to see the match and the $ will be there. There may be one team that gets into the bidding, but ultimately the Sox should be able to top any offer. LAA may want him if Morales doesn't come back strong. But if they drop big coin this off season, they may not have the resources to bid with the Red Sox next off season.

[a700hitter]

Wait you want the team to drop "elite" $ in Crawfords lap, but would have an issue with them doing it for Agon? Why cause you have to wait a season?

Agon is a way more complete hitter, and fits the mold of what the Red Sox need in the middle of their line up much more then Crawford does. You plead and plead for this FO to sign big name talent, and when a deal that makes sense all around comes up, you all the sudden change your mind?

 

What if it's Pujols? Is 200M still too much of an investment?

 

And feeling fleeced or not Hoyer is not going to get a big return from any GM he trades with.

 

And exactly who is going to out spend the Red Sox for Agon? The situation wil be similar to that of the Yankees and Lee dealing this ff season. Everyone is going to see the match and the $ will be there. There may be one team that gets into the bidding, but ultimately the Sox should be able to top any offer. LAA may want him if Morales doesn't come back strong. But if they drop big coin this off season, they may not have the resources to bid with the Red Sox next off season.

I never said that I had a problem spending elite money on AGon. That's not the issue. I just don't understand why people think he is destined for the Red Sox, and why people are so willing to not fill other needs while waiting for him. There's no guarantee he'll even be available. If SD has another successful season and they think he is the face of the franchise and they keep him in SD, we will have suffered through a bridge year to nowhere. We have a first baseman and a damn good one. We need an OF, a third baseman and bullpen. If Beltre will come back for a reasonable contract, we'll have a damn good lineup. If we wait for AGon, it may never happen. A couple of years ago, people thought Theo would eventually bag King Felix, because it was thought that he'd be too expensive for Seattle. He signed a long term extension with Seattle. The same thing could happen with AGon. Until he is available, getting him is a pipe dream, IMO.

[BSN07]

I never said that I had a problem spending elite money on AGon. That's not the issue. I just don't understand why people think he is destined for the Red Sox' date=' and why people are so willing to not fill other needs while waiting for him. There's no guarantee he'll even be available. If SD has another successful season and they think he is the face of the franchise and they keep him in SD, we will have suffered through a bridge year to nowhere. We have a first baseman and a damn good one. We need an OF, a third baseman and bullpen. If Beltre will come back for a reasonable contract, we'll have a damn good lineup. If we wait for AGon, it may never happen. A couple of years ago, people thought Theo would eventually bag King Felix, because it was thought that he'd be too expensive for Seattle. He signed a long term extension with Seattle. The same thing could happen with AGon. Until he is available, getting him is a pipe dream, IMO.[/quote']

Padres general manager Jed Hoyer on Thursday said that it's a "near certainty" that All-Star Adrian Gonzalez will explore free agency when his current contract expires.

 

Hoyer told the Padres' flagship station, XX 1090 AM, that he met with Gonzalez's agent, John Boggs, on Wednesday. It's the first time the two have talked this offseason.

 

The conversation, Hoyer said, didn't reveal any surprises, though it left Hoyer with the impression that the three-time All-Star first baseman will test his worth in free agency when his contract expires after the 2011 season.

 

"With a year away from free agency, Adrian's desire is to go out and go after a franchise-player contract," Hoyer said. "At this point, I think it's a near certainty that he at least explores free agency."

 

Will the Padres make a run at trying to sign Gonzalez -- who is a San Diego native -- to a long-term contract?

 

"What we can do and what they're looking for don't match up," Hoyer said. "... If things change somewhere at some point in the future, it's a possibility."

 

Seems straight forward. Hoyer was commended for being honest with the fans about the chances of Agon being a Padre next season. He will test the market. He will get a Tex like deal. Ony 3 teams were willing to go there for Tex. One has him. One is a yearly contender, one is a rebuilding franchise. How are the Sox not the best natural fit?

[Red Foreman]

Okajima, Andrew Miller and Taylor Buchholz were all non-tendered yesterday. Sox are now down to a 37 man roster.

[BSN07]

Okajima' date=' Andrew Miller and Taylor Buchholz were all non-tendered yesterday. Sox are now down to a 37 man roster.[/quote']

 

Was hoping they where going to try and turn Miller into a late inning reliever. But I guess any of them could come back on lesser deals.

[BSN07]

The Yankees have reached out to top free agent outfielder Carl Crawford and are believed to be interested in meeting with him. The Yankees' top target is ace pitcher Cliff Lee, but they haven't ruled out signing both players, depending on how things break. The Yankees managed to find room for CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and A.J. Burnett three winters ago.

 

Not sure why some people thought they wouldn't be in on him. Like the never traded an incumbent for an high priced all star before

[redsoxrules]

f***ing wonderfull ...

Note to Red Sox FO: Step the f*** up

[d-money]

Baseball needs a salary cap in the worse way and its because of the damn yankees!This FO has been doing nothing lately while it seems the yankees are willing to extend their payroll to 250 million dollars.

[Will617]

Was hoping they where going to try and turn Miller into a late inning reliever. But I guess any of them could come back on lesser deals.

 

I was a little surprised that Theo would acquire Miller and Buchholz, and then promptly dumped them. Maybe he's looking to bring them back on minor league deals? It's not that the Red Sox gave up anything to acquire them, I was just a little surprised at how quickly they got dropped.

[Will617]

Yankees could be a front runner for Martin, they nearly traded Cervelli for him.

[BSN07]

Yankees could be a front runner for Martin' date=' they nearly traded Cervelli for him.[/quote']

 

Not sure why LAD didn't make that deal? Something is better then nothing.

[Dipre]

Seems straight forward. Hoyer was commended for being honest with the fans about the chances of Agon being a Padre next season. He will test the market. He will get a Tex like deal. Ony 3 teams were willing to go there for Tex. One has him. One is a yearly contender' date=' one is a rebuilding franchise. How are the Sox not the best natural fit?[/quote']

 

Pffft.....that's propaganda planted by the Padres FO so other teams don't fill certain needs waiting for Gonzales as they keep a secret pact with him for a new contract that will be signed 1 1/2 hours before he becomes a FA.

 

Seriously though, it just makes too much sense. Theo has a boner for him, the Sox have money coming off the books and an opening. Want elite talent? Gotta pay for it.

[a700hitter]

Not sure why LAD didn't make that deal? Something is better then nothing.

Because Cervelli stinks and he is huge jackass.

[SoxSport]

Yeah--the Rivera offer was a surprise. Especially the money. Maybe they'll get serious about driving Lee's price up. You never know.Wish they would get serious about Lee.

 

Wonder how they react to Beltre wanting to stay. Maybe takes the heat off Epstein to sign AdGon. You know giving up young players is like pulling teeth for him. I say Beltre for 5 years at $60-70 mil. Cheaper option than what AdGon will cost in contract and players. They get Beltre cheaper, and have a bargain at 1B in Youks. Plus they get a needed bat on the right side.

 

Next: Werth or Crawford? Maybe depends on who they can get. Werth is DH material down the road.

Crawford is Ellsbury's replacement if they want to go in that direction.

 

Next: You know they will add a third catcher for insurance. Doubt it will be Martin. Not much insurance there.

 

Next: the bullpen--a perennial problem. I say trade Pap, promote Bard and sign another setup guy.

Pap has lost his out pitch. Wake was a very good relief pitcher many moons ago, and could be again--

maybe.

[a700hitter]

Wake was a very good relief pitcher many moons ago, and could be again--

maybe.

The FO needs to buy him some fishing gear.

[a700hitter]

White Sox Rumors: Fielder, Dunn, Konerko

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 3, 2010 at 2:19pm CST]

 

Here's the latest on Kenny Williams' search for power bats, as the White Sox announce their deal with Adam Dunn:

 

* The White Sox discussed Prince Fielder with the Brewers before completing the Dunn deal, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Rosenthal explains how the shortage of available pitching could make it difficult for the Brewers to acquire high caliber young arms in a potential Fielder trade.

* Dunn says he'll DH or play any position, according to Scott Reifert of the White Sox (on Twitter).

* Williams says A.J. Pierzynski and Dunn will accept deferred payment on their new deals to help the White Sox make Paul Konerko a strong offer, Reifert notes on

This would leave us with a dwindling number of quality first base FA options.

[SoxSport]

Baseball needs a salary cap in the worse way and its because of the damn yankees!This FO has been doing nothing lately while it seems the yankees are willing to extend their payroll to 250 million dollars.

 

Unfortunately, common sense is not one of Baseball's strong suits. The conventional wisdom is you stroke the NY TV market--the biggest source of advertising dollars. That means a spending advantage for the Yankees, and $100 tickets for Fenway to keep up. The Red Sox payroll would be half what it is without the Yankees. And tickets would be half the price.