The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Palodios]

Agree. Mike Cameron Scott Atchinson Marco Scutaro Jarad Saltalamacchia Kevin Cash Jed Lowrie and a bullpen full of scrubs except Paps and Bard makes us a team to be wreckoned with!

 

Yeah, I agree, the FO is going to make zero moves and sign zero players this offseason and just go with what they have at every single position. All of their franchise players will either be hurt again next season or get traded away for nothing, and they will rename the franchise to the Boston Pirates. [/sarcasm]

[example1]

Agree. Mike Cameron Scott Atchinson Marco Scutaro Jarad Saltalamacchia Kevin Cash Jed Lowrie and a bullpen full of scrubs except Paps and Bard makes us a team to be wreckoned with!

 

Do other teams not have the equivalent of those players? Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand, Javier Lopez and Travis Ishikawa just won a World Series. I don't need to say anything more.

 

I find your baseball arguments to be pretty weak.

 

I think you are taking notes about a team that struggled in 2010 and basing your judgments about those particular players on the Sox record. That's the wrong way to do it.

 

If Pedroia and Youkilis and Ellsbury were healthy then this team could have won 95 games and possibly made the playoffs. With a few bounces going the right way (and quality SP from Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, etc.,) they could have gone pretty far.

 

The difference in success or failure was not because of any of the players you listed. They are filler, this year's version of Curtis Leskanic and Gabe Kaplar.

 

Please.

[example1]

Yeah' date=' I agree, the FO is going to make zero moves and sign zero players this offseason and just go with what they have at every single position. All of their franchise players will either be hurt again next season or get traded away for nothing, and they will rename the franchise to the Boston Pirates. [/sarcasm']

 

You just re-sarcasmed his sarcasm. Well done.

[Dojji]

If the team tanks, I'll still be here. Let the thin skins and pink hats panic about us maybe not being a contender. Just lets us know who the fans are and who the fakes are.

[a700hitter]

Well yes of course I have some reservations about him as well. But it just seemed like you were giving him a snow balls chance in Hell at becoming anything. I was just saying it probably a little better then that But yes they do need to have a solid veteran back up regardless. I'm not sure I like a 3 year deal for a back up Catcher though. Catchers develop slower' date=' and the Sox Catching prospect depths are all approaching that age the we will really start to have a good idea what they will be. I think we could be surprised by a couple of them, you never know. I would rather they get someone on a one or maybe two year deal so that they can remain flexible at the Catcher position until the COTF makes himself known .[/quote']We don't have a COTF ready for the major league roster for two years. If we give a 3 year FA contract to a catcher, even if he overlaps with the COTF by 1 year, you can always trade the guy. Catchers get hurt and teams are always looking for them. Even if you can't trade the guy, eating the salary for 1 year for a back up type catcher is not going to be a big financial burden.

[GoBruins2011]

All the fans will still be here. I just want to see the GM fired. Then I'll be interested again good or bad. How are you able to sign Drew Lackey Scutaro Cameron Dice K to steep contracts and still have the owner ships trust. Oh and he projected more out of Jeremy Giambi then Ortiz in that year. He basically mooched off Jim Duquetts draft picks and talent.

[Dojji]

I just want to see the GM fired.

 

You'll be waiting awhile. The success Theo has had over the last 6-7 years will mean he gets a long rope before anyone really seriously considers axing him.

[a700hitter]

Okay. I'm going to say this once a day until he signs. Memo to Front Office: Sign Carl Crawford.

[Keeper]

I just want to see the GM fired. He basically mooched off Jim Duquetts draft picks and talent.

 

Dan Duquette.

[a700hitter]

Theo fine-tuned the 2004 team as opposed to building it. The core of the team was put in place by Duquette, and had it not been for a bumbling idiot manager (who was not hired by Duquette), they should have won in 2003. In 2007, some key Duquette pieces were still around, and Theo was not responsible for acquiring the big key piece, Beckett. In fact, he was against it. All remnants of Duquette are now gone, and Beckett is now a Theo acquisition, since he gave him the contract extension. From here on out, no one other than Theo can take credit, and no one else will bear the responsibility.

[BSN07]

Theo fine-tuned the 2004 team as opposed to building it. The core of the team was put in place by Duquette' date=' and had it not been for a bumbling idiot manager (who was not hired by Duquette), they should have won in 2003. In 2007, some key Duquette pieces were still around, and Theo was not responsible for acquiring the big key piece, Beckett. In fact, he was against it. All remnants of Duquette are now gone, and Beckett is now a Theo acquisition, since he gave him the contract extension. From here on out, no one other than Theo can take credit, and no one else will bear the responsibility.[/quote']

 

Duquette gets credit for part of the roster. But Theo's finger prints are all over that WS winner.

 

 

I'd like them to get Crawford. But LAA seems primed to pay through the nose. Something the Sox won't do IMO.

[Spudboy]

All the fans will still be here. I just want to see the GM fired. Then I'll be interested again good or bad. How are you able to sign Drew Lackey Scutaro Cameron Dice K to steep contracts and still have the owner ships trust. Oh and he projected more out of Jeremy Giambi then Ortiz in that year. He basically mooched off Jim Duquetts draft picks and talent.

 

I'd like to offer a belated welcome to Talksox. We've needed a new class clown for some time here!

[a700hitter]

I'd like them to get Crawford. But LAA seems primed to pay through the nose. Something the Sox won't do IMO.

Sometimes you need to pay through the nose.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I'd like to offer a belated welcome to Talksox. We've needed a new class clown for some time here!

 

[Palodios]

Jayson Stark reports the Red Sox are the front runners on Werth. Maybe Crawford isn't their #1 priority afterall.

[redsoxrules]

Jayson Stark reports the Red Sox are the front runners on Werth. Maybe Crawford isn't their #1 priority afterall.

 

IMO Werth>Crawford

 

the only thing that crawford has over Werth is speed .

Werth hits for power and is an excellent fielder with a canon for an arm

[BSN07]

Jayson Stark reports the Red Sox are the front runners on Werth. Maybe Crawford isn't their #1 priority afterall.

 

I hope it's only 4 years. Werth worries me.

[BSN07]

IMO Werth>Crawford

 

the only thing that crawford has over Werth is speed .

Werth hits for power and is an excellent fielder with a canon for an arm

 

Werth hit in a bandbox for a home park, was surrounded by two MVP's and Chase Utley. Was a fairly late Bloomer and I have read some stuff recently that he isn't a gem off the field/in the clubhouse. I think Bay had better track record and had less red flags then Werth(although Bay's was an health issue, but I would have to imagine the issues I have brought up could come close to = a health risk) and Werth is going to cost more to sign. Not sure I see it. I think it's reporters connecting the dots without actually considering the details. But it's the day after Thanksgiving, so them being lazy is fine

[a700hitter]

I hope it's only 4 years. Werth worries me.

He worries me too. I hope that the Sox aren't making Werth a priority because we need a right handed bat. When it comes to superstars, lefty or righty doesn't matter. Crawford is a game changer. Werth is not.

 

I don't know if any of you saw the ESPN mini-series The Bronx is Burning about the 1977 Yankees. There is a scene where Billy Martin is discussing with Gabe Paul the possible acquisition Reggie Jackson. Martin vigorously points out that they don't need Reggie, because they already have too many left handed hitters. He wants to get Joe Rudi because he is right handed and he's a better fielder. Paul tells Martin that Reggie is a star and Steinbrenner thinks NY should have stars. It worked out pretty good for the Yankees. Rudi became a 4th OFer type. Fast forward to 2010. Crawford is a star. Werth isn't. Get the star.

[BSN07]

He worries me too. I hope that the Sox aren't making Werth a priority because we need a right handed bat. When it comes to superstars, lefty or righty doesn't matter. Crawford is a game changer. Werth is not.

 

I don't know if any of you saw the ESPN mini-series The Bronx is Burning about the 1977 Yankees. There is a scene where Billy Martin is discussing with Gabe Paul the possible acquisition Reggie Jackson. Martin vigorously points out that they don't need Reggie, because they already have too many left handed hitters. He wants to get Joe Rudi because he is right handed and he's a better fielder. Paul tells Martin that Reggie is a star and Steinbrenner thinks NY should have stars. It worked out pretty good for the Yankees. Rudi became a 4th OFer type. Fast forward to 2010. Crawford is a star. Werth isn't. Get the star.

 

I'd rather they over pay with prospects and get Upton. Werth for 80-100M is not attractive at all. If Upton bust the contract isn't bad. If Werth busts, that's an albatross.

[Palodios]

I'd rather they over pay with prospects and get Upton. Werth for 80-100M is not attractive at all. If Upton bust the contract isn't bad. If Werth busts' date=' that's an albatross.[/quote']

 

The contracts won't be THAT difference in size. If Werth is a bust, atleast they won't lose Bard, Kalish and Kelly.

[BSN07]

The contracts won't be THAT difference in size. If Werth is a bust' date=' atleast they won't lose Bard, Kalish and Kelly.[/quote']

 

Upton cost like 40-50M, Werth is looking to cost 80-100M+. That's a huge difference. But I get your point about the prospects. But the three of them could flame out as well :dunno:

[Palodios]

Upton cost like 40-50M' date=' Werth is looking to cost 80-100M+. That's a huge difference. But I get your point about the prospects. But the three of them could flame out as well :dunno:[/quote']

 

He costs 50, not 40. Has Bard not proven himself to you yet? Kalish seems like the closest thing to a sure thing for a prospect.

[Rdsxmbnt]

No way Werth gets 80-100 mil. Bay was younger and a better hitter and only got 66 mil. I'd say he gets 4/70 on the basis of better defense yet a slightly worse hitter overall. Not to mention there is another (arguably) more marque FA OF on the market competing with him.

 

Though really I want Werth/Crawford and Upton (while holding onto Kalish which is reasonable if the deal is built around Ellbury). That way for this year we can have an OF of Crawford(Werth)/Upton/Drew and then put Kalish into Drew's spot for 2012

[redsoxrules]

Werth hit in a bandbox for a home park' date=' was surrounded by two MVP's and Chase Utley. Was a fairly late Bloomer and I have read some stuff recently that he isn't a gem off the field/in the clubhouse. I think Bay had better track record and had less red flags then Werth(although Bay's was an health issue, but I would have to imagine the issues I have brought up could come close to = a health risk) and Werth is going to cost more to sign. Not sure I see it. I think it's reporters connecting the dots without actually considering the details. But it's the day after Thanksgiving, so them being lazy is fine [/quote']

 

And here he'll be surounded by Ortiz, Youkillis, Pedroia and JD Drew , not to mention he'll have the Green monster to attack just like Beltre

[Spudboy]

No way Werth gets 80-100 mil. Bay was younger and a better hitter and only got 66 mil. I'd say he gets 4/70 on the basis of better defense yet a slightly worse hitter overall. Not to mention there is another (arguably) more marque FA OF on the market competing with him.

 

Though really I want Werth/Crawford and Upton (while holding onto Kalish which is reasonable if the deal is built around Ellbury). That way for this year we can have an OF of Crawford(Werth)/Upton/Drew and then put Kalish into Drew's spot for 2012

 

Sensible post.

 

Although I'd prefer Crawford.

 

And I don't believe the Sox will get in on either if it means a 5-8 year contract. Especially if it's Werth.

[WhiskeyBreath]

No way Werth gets 80-100 mil. Bay was younger and a better hitter and only got 66 mil. I'd say he gets 4/70 on the basis of better defense yet a slightly worse hitter overall. Not to mention there is another (arguably) more marque FA OF on the market competing with him.

 

 

Werth is going to get more than $70MM. That's a no brainer.

[Dojji]

No matter how you hype Werth, he isn't Matt Holliday. He's a good player, not a great player. He will be paid like a great player, mostly because there are few other power hitting OF's available. It's an overpay though.

 

The fact is that there hasn't been a really decent FA class in nearly a decade other than possibly '08.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Werth is going to get more than $70MM. That's a no brainer.

 

Why didn't Drew and Bay then?

 

I too prefer Crawford since I think he's more of an impact player than Werth

[WhiskeyBreath]

Why didn't Drew and Bay then?

 

I too prefer Crawford since I think he's more of an impact player than Werth

 

Bay received $69MM guaranteed. If he reaches a very attainable incentive he could end up making $83MM over 5 years. I just don't see how Werth doesn't beat Bay's contract.

 

Drew was signed 4 years ago.