The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[ORS]

Cafardo tweeted the sox offer. He said that the sox offered 3yrs $36 or a 4yr $42 mil deal' date=' which the Tigers beat[/quote']

Read above. There are two posts, one attributing it to the Red Sox and the other to the White Sox, about a 3/48 deal, which is why I said "regardless of which Sox team it came from". And, I meant that. I don't care which team it came from, if there was a 3/48 deal on the table and he took 4/50, he's stupid.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree, it is not a good business move.

[BSN07]

The Red Sox offered arbitration to Adrian Beltre (A), Victor Martinez ( A ) and Felipe Lopez ( B ), but not to Mike Lowell ( B ) or Jason Varitek ( B ), according to the team.

[SCM33]

The Sox need a 1 year stop gap at 1B. Lee fits that mold. Konerko does too but he's going to want multi years and that doesn't work for the Sox long term plans. Unless he will DH in 2012.

 

It's not as though they are skipping out on the bill. I believe they have something like 130-140M already committed to next season. Which will put them in the top 5 I'm sure. They are not cheap. They are smart. They have been right about a lot of these typs of deals. Pedro, Lowe, Manny, Bay, Damon. Peopled pissed and moaned for the first year or so those playrs where gone, but soon enough saw what the FO had already seen and started to realize they where right. There view of V-Mart is that he can't stick at Catcher for the duration of his deal and is not worth it, as his production at 1B/DH is less then when he plays catcher. I see no reason to doubt them now.

 

Thats assuming the Sox spend the money on Gonzalez. Since when is that a lock? We are banking them making a deal that might never happen.

 

The Patriots aren't cheap. Their as well run organization as there is in sports. They make smart tough decisions. And hardly are ever on the wrong end of any deal.

 

Soxfan is just an idiot and doesnt understand football. See in football, we have this little thing called a salary cap which prohibits over spending. Winningest franchise since 1994, did I mention that already? Coulda sworn I did, that or you just cant read.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I have a hard time believing that White Sox rumor.

[SCM33]

Paying Papi $12.5 mil to DH against RHP next year when he's worth about $6mil isn't being cheap. In fact' date=' I wish they had used that money to sign VMart or Beltre.[/quote']

 

Nope, not cheap.

 

Stupid. Vlad Guerrero will be LUCKY to get 6 million for the same production.

 

When they arent being cheap....theyre being stupid.

[SCM33]

According to ESPN, the Yankees Front Office has told those involved in negotiation to offer him 3 years at 15M per.....and that he is to take it or leave it. Jetes wants 4 or 5 years at a higher pay rate.

 

Although I know it would never happen, I would LOVE for the sox to offer him 15M over 4 years to play 1B, 3B or LF. There was considerable talk about moving him to CF when they got Arod and Bernie retired, I think hed do great in LF. I would love it more than words can describe.....our own little Babe Ruth curse if you will. MUHAHAHAHA (I am evil).

 

I posted this a week ago.

 

Today they told Jeter to test the market.

 

Why not test the waters? If only to piss NY off...

[BSN07]

Thats assuming the Sox spend the money on Gonzalez. Since when is that a lock? We are banking them making a deal that might never happen.

 

Oh if they cheap out on Agon I'll be screaming my head off. I am ok with all these moves if it leads to Agon. If not, I will have a completely different outlook on these recent events.

[Northern Star]

I posted this a week ago.

 

Today they told Jeter to test the market.

 

Why not test the waters? If only to piss NY off...

 

No thanks. He is in serious decline. We're helped more by having him cost the Yankees serious coin while sucking in their lineup, not ours.

[GoBruins2011]

Oh if they cheap out on Agon I'll be screaming my head off. I am ok with all these moves if it leads to Agon. If not' date=' I will have a completely different outlook on these recent events.[/quote']

 

Lets say they do get him next year? Who plays RF 3B? C? Still have a ton of holes out there? Mark Derosa is like the best 3B and LF free agent out there next year I'm serious.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have said this before and I will say it again. The Yankees in 2011 will be better without Derek Jeter as their SS. If he doesnt have a serious rebound offensively, he will not be worth the negative defensively. I do think he ends up hitting again, but not in the .330 range that he would need to offset his statuesque range. I think Eduardo Nunez has the range to handle the position and has the stick to at least replicate what Jeter did last yr in terms of OPS. If we get a .710OPS with a positive UZR, then I'd take it.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lets say they do get him next year? Who plays RF 3B? C? Still have a ton of holes out there? Mark Derosa is like the best 3B and LF free agent out there next year I'm serious.

 

The thing about the sox playing it that way is that it sets up AdGon to have all the chips. I highly, highly doubt the sox are going to cave to every demand on AdGon. But to put all your eggs in that basket one year in advance is a bit problematic, don't you think? The Yankees did it in 2008 because they were going to offer CC the largest pitcher's contract in history. They knew they werent gonna get outbid. But if someone comes to the AdGon table with 8yrs $200 million (Tex deal plus inflation) do the sox overbid? I dont think the sox are "holding out" for AdGon. I think they have what they determine to be fair market value for a player and arent about to pay anything more than that. Now it is noble, but as Brian Cashman said, you dont get any awards for spending the perfect amount on a deal. You get awards for what the product is on the field. If Theo isnt willing to step out of his box at some point, then he might come out of next yr shorthanded as well. This is why I think the sox might fill one of their needs via trade. At least at that point, you are assuming another contract that is already known and you are giving up prospects that you are well aware of what they can do. This might be the better route for Theo. Since paying 1-2 mil more per yr seems to be against his MO, even if it is absolutely necessary to land a needed player

[GoBruins2011]

I have said this before and I will say it again. The Yankees in 2011 will be better without Derek Jeter as their SS. If he doesnt have a serious rebound offensively' date=' he will not be worth the negative defensively. I do think he ends up hitting again, but not in the .330 range that he would need to offset his statuesque range. I think Eduardo Nunez has the range to handle the position and has the stick to at least replicate what Jeter did last yr in terms of OPS. If we get a .710OPS with a positive UZR, then I'd take it.[/quote']

 

Wow. How can you say that about Derek Jeter? Atleast you guys have a short stop. We haven't had one of those since s*** Orlando Cabrera and Nomah.

[example1]

Scutaro doesn't count?

[jacksonianmarch]

I watch as many games as I can. At least 100 per yr and probably more like 130. And I have never seen a player's defense be so far blown out of proportion. His patented jump throw is gawked at by the ESPN heads, but he typically needs to do it because he doesnt have the range to get there and set and throw. Dont get me wrong, I love Jeter. He is exactly the kind of personality that a winning team needs, which is why I wouldnt mind having him back. But his D is so bad that no matter how good he does offensively, he still hurts the team. If we could move him to 2b or to 3b, then I think he could be well worth it. But as a SS without a real place to move him to, he is dead weight

[jacksonianmarch]

Scutaro doesn't count?

 

Scutaro was damaged goods from the start. His range was underrated, but his arm was pathetic. And he did have shoulder surgery, right? If he did, then that could be the reason why the sox seem so eager to deal him

[GoBruins2011]

The thing about the sox playing it that way is that it sets up AdGon to have all the chips. I highly' date=' highly doubt the sox are going to cave to every demand on AdGon. But to put all your eggs in that basket one year in advance is a bit problematic, don't you think? The Yankees did it in 2008 because they were going to offer CC the largest pitcher's contract in history. They knew they werent gonna get outbid. But if someone comes to the AdGon table with 8yrs $200 million (Tex deal plus inflation) do the sox overbid? I dont think the sox are "holding out" for AdGon. I think they have what they determine to be fair market value for a player and arent about to pay anything more than that. Now it is noble, but as Brian Cashman said, you dont get any awards for spending the perfect amount on a deal. You get awards for what the product is on the field. If Theo isnt willing to step out of his box at some point, then he might come out of next yr shorthanded as well. This is why I think the sox might fill one of their needs via trade. At least at that point, you are assuming another contract that is already known and you are giving up prospects that you are well aware of what they can do. This might be the better route for Theo. Since paying 1-2 mil more per yr seems to be against his MO, even if it is absolutely necessary to land a needed player[/quote']

 

Couldn't agree with you more. They thought they were saving on Tiexiera now Adrian will get his contract and he isn't half the player Tiex is lmao. I love how enept my front office as a whole as become. I kind of hope they miss out on Gonzo to be honest cause that will make them a 85 win team and I'll admit I'd be stupid enough to go to about 20 games. I want 2 years of 2011 70-75 wins comming up I'm at the point where I want some heads some firings. This way I don't go to games and get aggravated.

[GoBruins2011]

Scutaro was damaged goods from the start. His range was underrated' date=' but his arm was pathetic. And he did have shoulder surgery, right? If he did, then that could be the reason why the sox seem so eager to deal him[/quote']

 

lol correct. Thats a hardon not a SS.

[SCM33]

Scutaro was damaged goods from the start. His range was underrated' date=' but his arm was pathetic. And he did have shoulder surgery, right? If he did, then that could be the reason why the sox seem so eager to deal him[/quote']

 

Scutaro was a little better than damaged goods. There are bigger concerns than Marco Scutaro. He was fine. I have no problem with him coming back as the starting SS.

[jacksonianmarch]

It all depends on how his arm recovers. By the end of the yr, he was a 2b. If his shoulder doesnt bounce back, then the pitching and defense theory goes out the window. Saw a lot of rumors on him last week. My guess is that the sox feel that even with Lowrie's fragility, he is more of a true SS since he does have an arm (but less range). And since the sox have Iglesias in AA or AAA next yr, then they have some contingency if Mr. Glass strains his mons again next yr

[SCM33]

It all depends on how his arm recovers. By the end of the yr' date=' he was a 2b. If his shoulder doesnt bounce back, then the pitching and defense theory goes out the window. Saw a lot of rumors on him last week. My guess is that the sox feel that even with Lowrie's fragility, he is more of a true SS since he does have an arm (but less range). And since the sox have Iglesias in AA or AAA next yr, then they have some contingency if Mr. Glass strains his mons again next yr[/quote']

 

He was a 2B because Lowrie was healthy and they were giving him reps at SS because the season was over.

[jacksonianmarch]

At the time, the sox announcers and the media was pointing towards a neck/shoulder injury as the reason for the switch.

[SoxSport]

Looks like Tek would be a good sign now for a couple mil. Isn't his girlfriend one of those media blondes that cover the Red Sox? Did I say cover?

 

My guess is Scutaro plays SS next year, and Lowrie plays 3B. The leftfielder will be Werth.

 

Yeah, I think the Pats are cheap. Look at all those all-pro defensive backs they drafted and wouldn't pay.

Now they have the 2nd worse pass defense in the NFL. I wish them well, but that 8-2 record might be a bit misleading. We'll see. After all, the Jets are overrated, too. Nobody's perfect in the NFL.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Looks like Tek would be a good sign for a couple mil. Isn't his girlfriend one of those media blondes that cover the Red Sox? Did I say cover?

 

Yeah, I think the Pats are cheap. Look at all those all-pro defensive backs they drafted and wouldn't pay.

Now they have the 2nd worse pass defense in the NFL. I wish them well, but that 8-2 record might be a bit misleading. We'll see. After all, the Jets are overrated, too. Nobody's perfect in the NFL.

 

The Patriots spend money, you just aren't happy with the direction they send it.

[example1]

Here's a list of all the players that Theo Epstein has drafted with compensation picks during his tenure with the Red Sox:

 

2002

Abe Alvarez

 

2004

None

 

2005

Jacoby Ellsbury

Craig Hansen [part of Bay deal]

Clay Buchholz

Jed Lowrie

Michael Bowden

Jonathan Egan

 

2006

Daniel Bard

Caleb Clay

Aaron Bates

 

2007

Nick Hagadone [part of V-Mart deal]

Ryan Dent

 

2008

Bryan Price [part of the V-Mart deal]

Stephen Fife

 

2009

-None-

 

2010

Kolbrin Vitek

Bryce Brentz

Anthony Ranaudo

Brandon Workman

 

 

The most valuable thing in baseball is a homegrown, all-star caliber player. Not only can they produce at the level of the best FAs, but they cost virtually nothing over 6 seasons, sometimes more with extensions. With a good scouting department and lots of money, top draft picks can be amazing opportunities for the longterm health of the club. I see 5 players who already have some significant MLB experience--Ellsbury, Lowrie, Buchholz, Bowden, Bard--but most of them are just coming into their own 5 years later. That's a damn good percentage, given that we're talking about including these names in deals for some of the very best in baseball.

 

Even if it's only a 1/3 chance that you get a valuable MLB caliber player, that's a pretty good percentage.

 

I think after 8 seasons we can see pretty clearly that Epstein values the opportunity for these picks very, very highly. I'm sure this philosophy is backed by Henry, Warner, Lucchino, etc., or else they would have put a stop to it long ago. When I look at the list above I see a good number of valuable players (on the field or in trade), some who haven't shown us what they have yet, and duds. Given the likelyhood that 30+ y.o FA contracts demand more time and money than is reasonable and turn into pumpkins regularly, and the opposite chance of drafting a home-grown stud, I can understand why they have so consistently prefered the picks to the aging FA. I just wouldn't have the discipline to run my team that way.

[BSN07]

Lets say they do get him next year? Who plays RF 3B? C? Still have a ton of holes out there? Mark Derosa is like the best 3B and LF free agent out there next year I'm serious.

 

Kalish plays RF, Youk plays 3B and I'm sure they can find an in house option for Catcher. And if not it's not hard to find a stop gap C on the market. FA is not the only option to fill your roster.

[BSN07]

. I just wouldn't have the discipline to run my team that way.

 

Nor would most fans for that matter. Probably why there haven't been too many fans running MLB teams in recent memory .

[jacksonianmarch]

You're off on the costing virtually nothing for 6 seasons. For three, they are dirt cheap. They crack 7 figures in yr 4 and yrs 5 and 6 are close to market value. But the net savings is for 4 yrs. The only problem with a lot of the all star caliber players is that it may take a yr or two for them to really get it in the bigs. So, really and truly, it's 2 yrs of improving, 2 yrs of dirt cheap All Star level production, and 2 yrs of paying for that All Star level of production

[Palodios]

Here's a list of all the players that Theo Epstein has drafted with compensation picks during his tenure with the Red Sox:

 

Quality post. As much as the Yankees abuse the salary cap system, lately the Sox have been abusing the compensation pick system. They'll probably lose their 3 FAs, and pick up 3 more type A's, and still end up with 5 top 50 picks. Then they'll draft better prospects with expensive signing demands-- so they'll pick up five of the best prospects despite signing big free agents. I was very much expecting them to lose VMart, but I didn't know he'd sell so slow, or that Buck would already be gone-- so they definitely need to get very creative at catcher this season if they lose out on Olivio.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Theo is not impressing me at all. I was not a fan of the Victor Martinez trade to begin with. Masterson could have been a HUGE help to our pen this year and I know Vic is a stud hitter but he is perhaps the worst defensive catcher in the game. Being a former catcher I can tell you his mechanics are terrible.. His arm is a wet noodle..and his receiving skills are abyssmal. He is a DH and I am glad we did not pay 13 mill a year for a DH..we are already overpaying Ortiz in that slot. I firmly believe Beckett and Lackey's putrid seasons would not have been nearly as bad with a a good defensive catcher. Varitek can handle a staff and I believe Salty will be an overall improvement over Martinez for the pitching staff..his offense will be gravy. I think we should bring in an Olivo, Molina, Laird as they have strong arm and can handle a staff. Theo had better f***$ing start making some moves to fill other needs. I am sick and tired of his wait and see approach. If we don't sign either Werth or Crawford and some pen arms he should be fired.