The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Very nice!

[boston22407]

David Ortiz told the Boston Globe on Tuesday that he is confident he will remain with the Red Sox next season.

The Red Sox have until three days after the World Series to decide whether they will exercise his $12.5 million option for next season. It's probably a slight overpay to bring him back at that salary, but it would be better than ripping up this deal and re-negotiating a two-year contract, for example. Ortiz, who turns 35 in November, batted .270/.370/.529 with 32 homers and 102 RBI this past season. The two sides are expected to talk next week. Oct. 26 - 9:58 pm et

[a700hitter]

While the Red Sox rotation seems full, don't forget that there is a strong Greinke tie-in to Boston with Allard Baird, the assistant to general manager Theo Epstein. Baird was the GM in Kansas City when Greinke went through his anxiety issues and has been like a father to him. Nobody understands Greinke more or believes in him more than Baird.

 

I wonder if they will really try and get him? Do they move the trade chips for Grienke and wait on Agon another season?

 

Baird is interviewing for the Mets GM job.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/metsblog/boston_baird_first_to_interview_AeKZA3ze4yo8KBrPVRosMK

[BSN07]

Baird is interviewing for the Mets GM job.

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/metsblog/boston_baird_first_to_interview_AeKZA3ze4yo8KBrPVRosMK

 

That job is Alderson's(sp)? unless he turns it down IMO. Both Wilpons have are said to be saying yes to him, and when it comes to the Mets that's usually enough. And of course Papi is going to say he is coming back next year at a Celtics game. He's no an idiot. Let's see how willing he is to stay if they Sox decline his option and offer him a 1 or 2 year deal at a discounted rate.

[BSN07]

It appears last night at almost the time you made your post the Mets went with Alderson, So Grienke advantage still in play

 

The Mets are set to hire Sandy Alderson as their new general manager, sources have told Sports Illustrated's Jon Heyman (via Twitter). Heyman adds (in another tweet) that the hiring could be announced on Friday, the first off-day of the World Series.

[BSN07]

It's not guaranteed" that Leo Nunez will be a Marlin next season. Nunez is headed to arbitration for the second time, and Frisaro predicts the right-hander is due to earn approximately $4MM

 

I mentioned his name earlier in the season as a guy the Red Sox needed to keep tabs on. He had a putrid August and lost the closers spot. He then rebounded to have a good September. He is exactly the kind of young live arm that is right about at the point of getting too expensive for some teams like the Marlins. The Sox need to make a play for this guy. He could be really good for the 7th inning duties. And shouldn't cost a kings ransom in prospects.

[Dojji]

I wouldn't trade any talent in particular for a guy as inconsistent as Nunez. I don't think we should meet FLA's price. He's not awful, but he's a middle innings guy at best and you don't buy high on those in either talent or dollars.

 

EDIT: OK that isn't really fair, I hadn't realized that Nunez was only 26, all the same he's thrived in a big pitcher's park in KC and not done that well in the NL East (although certainly by no means terrible) so I'm still not in favor of busting the bank to bring him into this division.

[a700hitter]

That job is Alderson's(sp)? unless he turns it down IMO. Both Wilpons have are said to be saying yes to him' date=' and when it comes to the Mets that's usually enough. And of course Papi is going to say he is coming back next year at a Celtics game. He's no an idiot. Let's see how willing he is to stay if they Sox decline his option and offer him a 1 or 2 year deal at a discounted rate.[/quote']Nomar was asked the same question for about a year and he never said that he'd be coming back. In fact, he turned down a long term deal that he never approached in the rest of his career. If Ortiz says he's coming back, IMO the only way he doesn't come back will be if the FO doesn't want him back and they don't negotiate in good faith.

[BSN07]

I wouldn't trade any talent in particular for a guy as inconsistent as Nunez. I don't think we should meet FLA's price. He's not awful, but he's a middle innings guy at best and you don't buy high on those in either talent or dollars.

 

EDIT: OK that isn't really fair, I hadn't realized that Nunez was only 26, all the same he's thrived in a big pitcher's park in KC and not done that well in the NL East (although certainly by no means terrible) so I'm still not in favor of busting the bank to bring him into this division.

 

I still think he's worth a shot. And I don't believe the Sox would be giving up an top prospects to get him either. A couple low to mid level guys and taking on all the $ is something the Marlins will consider.

[a700hitter]

It appears last night at almost the time you made your post the Mets went with Alderson' date=' So Grienke advantage still in play [/quote']

Good. I'd like the Sox to get Greinke.

[BSN07]

Good. I'd like the Sox to get Greinke.

 

I knew you'd sway once I put it as a move that would negate a move by the Yankee's;)

 

I don't doubt for a second Ortiz wants to be in Boston next year. But I don't know how he will feel after 1 of 3 likely scenarios happens,

 

1. The Sox pick up his option. He could be happy he's getting 12.5M or be pissed that they will only commit one year

2. The Sox decline his option and offer him something like 2 years 18M. Which is market value for a DH only player with possible platoon issues.

2. The Sox offer 1 year at a discounted rate and say take the hometown discount or go test the FA waters.

[a700hitter]

I knew you'd sway once I put it as a move that would negate a move by the Yankee's;)

 

I don't doubt for a second Ortiz wants to be in Boston next year. But I don't know how he will feel after 1 of 3 likely scenarios happens,

 

1. The Sox pick up his option. He could be happy he's getting 12.5M or be pissed that they will only commit one year

2. The Sox decline his option and offer him something like 2 years 18M. Which is market value for a DH only player with possible platoon issues.

2. The Sox offer 1 year at a discounted rate and say take the hometown discount or go test the FA waters.

You never had to sell me on getting Greinke. I am one of the few posters that is not concerned with his ability to handle the Boston pressure.

 

 

As for Ortiz, I think he will come back for anything approaching market value. As I said, if he's not back next season, it will be because the FO didn't want him back and they lowball him, I.e., they don't negotiate in good faith. If they negotiate in good faith and make a fair offer, he'll be back.

[BSN07]

You never had to sell me on getting Greinke. I am one of the few posters that is not concerned with his ability to handle the Boston pressure.

 

 

As for Ortiz, I think he will come back for anything approaching market value. As I said, if he's not back next season, it will be because the FO didn't want him back and they lowball him, I.e., they don't negotiate in good faith. If they negotiate in good faith and make a fair offer, he'll be back.

 

Sorry I was thinking you were part of the anti-Grienke faction. My mistake

[Palodios]

Sorry I was thinking you were part of the anti-Grienke faction. My mistake

 

Quite frankly, this team needs to look at the worst case scenario when signing starters for the next four years. There are far too many question marks making large sums of money on this team already. After what happened to Cliff Lee's wife the other night, it makes me realize there is a very good chance Greinke could be a huge bust in the AL East.

[BSN07]

Quite frankly' date=' this team needs to look at the worst case scenario when signing starters for the next four years. There are far too many question marks making large sums of money on this team already. After what happened to Cliff Lee's wife the other night, it makes me realize there is a very good chance Greinke could be a huge bust in the AL East.[/quote']

 

A lot of people act as though the guy has never pitched outside of KC. Do they take him out of the rotation when they got to Boston, NY , LA or CHC? What he doesn't deal with taunting drunk fans now?

 

The big deal in Boston is how the media treats him and how it effects him and if the people of Boston will let him live a semi normal life during the season.

 

And again he get's to slot into the # 3 spot and is surrounded by big name veterans. I think it would be harder on him if he went to say LA and had to be the ace or something.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am also not sure if the Sox have the parts to get Greinke right now. Casey Kelly would have to be leading the charge, but right now, he is not looking like a guy who should head a package for a Cy Young capable pitcher who is under contract and 27yrs old. You might have to put together Lowrie, Kelly, and probably Rizzo to make that work, and Theo has been reticent to package a bunch of talent together, especially when that talent is atop their minor league rankings.

[Palodios]

BSN, you ignored my point. What is the worst case scenario in a Greinke trade? That's what this team needs to look at for pitching right now.

[Dojji]

THe worst case scenario is that Greinke walks away from the game. He's had to be talked down from doing that once before by the Royals org. It's not a high risk, but that's what's at stake. IF he blows up on the field and loses his confidence, Greinke is a risk to desert.

[Dipre]

I am also not sure if the Sox have the parts to get Greinke right now. Casey Kelly would have to be leading the charge' date=' but right now, he is not looking like a guy who should head a package for a Cy Young capable pitcher who is under contract and 27yrs old. You might have to put together Lowrie, Kelly, and probably Rizzo to make that work, and Theo has been reticent to package a bunch of talent together, especially when that talent is atop their minor league rankings.[/quote']

 

What's the point you're trying to make:

 

Do they not have the parts to pull it off, or do they have the parts to pull it off and Theo wouldn't pull the trigger because of the price?

[BSN07]

I am also not sure if the Sox have the parts to get Greinke right now. Casey Kelly would have to be leading the charge' date=' but right now, he is not looking like a guy who should head a package for a Cy Young capable pitcher who is under contract and 27yrs old. You might have to put together Lowrie, Kelly, and probably Rizzo to make that work, and Theo has been reticent to package a bunch of talent together, especially when that talent is atop their minor league rankings.[/quote']

KC want prospects 2+ years away to match with their own crp that is due at that point. If the Red Sox have any thing at all, it is prospects that are 2+ years away.

BSN' date=' you ignored my point. What is the worst case scenario in a Greinke trade? That's what this team needs to look at for pitching right now.[/quote']

 

Worst case scenario is he doesn't pitch as expected and leaves in 2 years, while every Sox prospect they trade away becomes a HOF

[example1]

I am also not sure if the Sox have the parts to get Greinke right now. Casey Kelly would have to be leading the charge' date=' but right now, he is not looking like a guy who should head a package for a Cy Young capable pitcher who is under contract and 27yrs old. You might have to put together Lowrie, Kelly, and probably Rizzo to make that work, and Theo has been reticent to package a bunch of talent together, especially when that talent is atop their minor league rankings.[/quote']

 

Supposedly he offerd 6 top players for Felix. Does that not count? I imagine if they wanted Greinke and went with the same aggressive posture, something could work.

[BSN07]

Supposedly he offerd 6 top players for Felix. Does that not count? I imagine if they wanted Greinke and went with the same aggressive posture' date=' something could work.[/quote']

 

Of course it doesn't count. It's an offer from the Red Sox. Jacko is unable to get past this. He doesn't want to have to think about the possible positive consequences of the Sox getting Grienke. It will ripple his pond.

 

And in the event the Sox do some how manage to land Grienke, we should all expect a long winded explanation of how he will never work in Boston. And how instantly any and all of the prospects dealt will be major losses felt for years to come. Kelly will be the best pitching prospect in baseball.

[ORS]

What's the point you're trying to make:

 

Do they not have the parts to pull it off, or do they have the parts to pull it off and Theo wouldn't pull the trigger because of the price?

Both....and neither, maybe?

[Will617]

What's the point you're trying to make:

 

Do they not have the parts to pull it off, or do they have the parts to pull it off and Theo wouldn't pull the trigger because of the price?

 

Think they have the parts not the will.

 

They have 3.5 pitchers with ace ability (not sold on Lackey), and probably the best no. 5 pitcher in the MLB. I don't think Theo is unsettled enough with his staff to swap 3+ top prospects for Greinke.

[jacksonianmarch]

What's the point you're trying to make:

 

Do they not have the parts to pull it off, or do they have the parts to pull it off and Theo wouldn't pull the trigger because of the price?

 

I should have clarified. The sox dont have one prospect that would headline a deal for a top notch ace like other teams do. So, a deal for Greinke would gut the sox of their top prospects, something Theo has shown an unwillingness to do

[Meh]

You might have to put together Lowrie' date=' Kelly, and probably Rizzo to make that work, and Theo has been reticent to package a bunch of talent together, especially when that talent is atop their minor league rankings.[/quote']

 

and you have to ask yourself why would the Royals do that with Stank, Hosmer and now Colon in the mix. I bet they focus on pitching and continue to build up their depth there.

[VA Sox Fan]

and you have to ask yourself why would the Royals do that with Stank' date=' Hosmer and now Colon [/b']in the mix. I bet they focus on pitching and continue to build up their depth there.

 

:dunno: really?

[Dojji]

The Royals have a very good wave minor league prospects coming up very soon. Kinda premature to call any of them "in the mix" yet other than possibly Moustakas.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Royals have the #1 farm in the game and will soon show their strength. The reason for dealing Greinke is that most of the kids wont have blossomed in the bigs by the time he is a FA.

[Dojji]

THe Royals are in a fair position, not great but fair, to offer Greinke a franchise caliber extension, with all the cost-controlled talent they have on the way. If they can clear the salaries of David Dejesus and Gil Meche, then it *is* a great position. The question is if Greinke's willing to commit to KC for the rest of his prime.