Yankees 2010-2011 Hotstove Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Zambrano is someone I would be in on, and I wouldnt hesitate with Gardner leading the package, but if we eat a lot of money, they get almost nothing else of value

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a feeling we might be in on CJ Wilson this offseason. His conversion to the rotation couldnt have been smoother, and this yr, his K's are up, his walks are down and all of his peripherals are improved. He might be the next 5 yr 90 mil pitcher out there. And with Burnett entering the 4th yr of his 5 yr deal and the rest of the rotation wide open, we might need to make that move

[jacksonianmarch]

I would also keep the Yankee name out there for Pujols, should he not resign with StL. The Yankees have an open RF spot, which could be accomodated by moving Gardner or Granderson there while allowing Pujols to move to LF, a position he has played in the past. It's not all that far fetched either with the Yankees losing over $20 million annually with Posada and Swisher probably not being here next yr and the DH spot being filled internally by a slew of guys.

[Divinity]

They could even have him play 3B, A Rod would certainly benefit from a move to a full-time DH role

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yanks seem to make big moves when embarassed during the season. I have a feeling this season ends poorly, and the Yanks will make a big splash

[Divinity]

Well I'm sure they'll win the Wild Card to make the playoffs, but this team isn't built good enough to beat the Red Sox in a 7 game series. I have a feeling they'll make a big splash too.

[a700hitter]

Well I'm sure they'll win the Wild Card to make the playoffs' date=' but this team isn't built good enough to beat the Red Sox in a 7 game series. I have a feeling they'll make a big splash too.[/quote']Unless they add a starter, a couple of bullpen arms and an OFer to take garbage can Gardner's place, they will miss the playoffs this year. The big need is the Starter.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yanks are making the playoffs this yr unless they have another big injury. And you always hate on Gardner. Since the end of April, he's hitting .320 with an OBP around .400. He's not the issue

[a700hitter]

The Yanks are making the playoffs this yr unless they have another big injury. And you always hate on Gardner. Since the end of April' date=' he's hitting .320 with an OBP around .400. He's not the issue[/quote']The guys sucks. I hope he is your starting leftfielder this season and next season.

[a700hitter]

The Yanks are making the playoffs this yr unless they have another big injury. And you always hate on Gardner. Since the end of April' date=' he's hitting .320 with an OBP around .400. He's not the issue[/quote']Earlier I had compared him to Chad Curtis. Being that one was right handed and one left handed, they are mirror images of each other. They are both jerks too.

[yankees228]

Instead of just saying he sucks ... how about you explain to us why he sucks, because there is a lot of compelling evidence to the contrary.

[a700hitter]

Instead of just saying he sucks ... how about you explain to us why he sucks' date=' because there is a lot of compelling evidence to the contrary.[/quote']Chad Curtis

[a700hitter]

Chad Curtis

He's not as good as him. Gardner's only major league attribute is his speed. He got caught stealing again-- the 8th time already this season.

[yankees228]

You don't think he's a good on-base guy? Or an excellent defender?

[a700hitter]

You don't think he's a good on-base guy? Or an excellent defender?

His defense is okay, not excellent. His speed makes up for frequent bad jumps. His hands are good, not great. Arm is below average. He's a very one dimensional player with marginal major league skill. I hope he is a Yankee starter for the next 5 years.

[yankees228]

His defense is okay' date=' not excellent. His speed makes up for frequent bad jumps. His hands are good, not great. Arm is below average. He's a very one dimensional player with marginal major league skill. I hope he is a Yankee starter for the next 5 years.[/quote']

 

Couldn't disagree more. I think his jumps are very good. The stats support this ... his Range Runs Above Average from last year was 16.6 (and 9.5 last year). You don't get to that number just by having your speed compensate for bad jumps. His arm strength is only average, but it's extremely accurate and he makes good throwing decisions. You're massively underestimating his defense if you think it's 'okay'. He's one of the best defenders in all of baseball.

[boston22407]

Gardner today has already been caught stealing twice today

[a700hitter]

Couldn't disagree more. I think his jumps are very good. The stats support this ... his Range Runs Above Average from last year was 16.6 (and 9.5 last year). You don't get to that number just by having your speed compensate for bad jumps. His arm strength is only average' date=' but it's extremely accurate and he makes good throwing decisions. You're massively underestimating his defense if you think it's 'okay'. [b']He's one of the best defenders in all of baseball.[/b]

This is a huge over-estimation.

[yankees228]

This is a huge over-estimation.

 

2010 UZR/150 Ranking: First in all of baseball

2011 UZR/150 Ranking: Second in all of baseball

[a700hitter]

2010 UZR/150 Ranking: First in all of baseball

2011 UZR/150 Ranking: Second in all of baseball

All Star selections-- none. He's no Paul Blair. You don't need metrics to prove that a guy is a great fielder. You just don't

 

Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination.

Vin Scully

Gardner will be out of baseball in 5 years, just like Chade Curtis(age 31), who was a better defensively and a better all around player with a little pop. Yankee fans are delusional about Gardner. He's a 4th OFer type. Period, but believe what you want.

[yankees228]

I can't believe you actually think all star selections is more valid as evidence than statistics. We've clearly reached an impasse, no point in discussing this any further.

[a700hitter]

I can't believe you actually think all star selections is more valid as evidence than statistics. We've clearly reached an impasse' date=' no point in discussing this any further.[/quote']I did not say that. You are claiming that Gardner is the best defensive LF. Players who are the best defensively at their positions usually make an All Star team at some point if they can do anything on the offensive side. Even Paul Blair made two All Star teams and he was a pretty bad offensive player. He made those teams because he was the acknowledged best OFer in the game at the time-- no metrics needed, just a pair of eyes.

[yankees228]

I did not say that. You are claiming that Gardner is the best defensive LF. Players who are the best defensively at their positions usually make an All Star team at some point if they can do anything on the offensive side. Even Paul Blair made two All Star teams and he was a pretty bad offensive player. He made those teams because he was the acknowledged best OFer in the game at the time-- no metrics needed' date=' just a pair of eyes.[/quote']

 

He has only been this player for a year and a half. If he continues to play at this level, the all star selections will come. Those are largely a popularity contest, and one that is based more on past performance than current performance.

[a700hitter]

He has only been this player for a year and a half. If he continues to play at this level' date=' the all star selections will come. Those are largely a popularity contest, and one that is based more on past performance than current performance.[/quote']Kevin Millar was hugely popular. It must have been an oversight that he didn't make any All Star teams.

 

This guy Gardner is Chad Curtis, but not as good. Check his stats. They are both 4th OFer types who will be out of the game by age 32. They are not the best at anything.

[yankees228]

Kevin Millar was hugely popular. It must have been an oversight that he didn't make any All Star teams.

 

This guy Gardner is Chad Curtis, but not as good. Check his stats. They are both 4th OFer types who will be out of the game by age 32. They are not the best at anything.

 

Popularity based on past performance, not popularity based on personality.

 

And I checked Gardner's stats, that's the entire point. 6.2 fWAR last year.

[a700hitter]

Popularity based on past performance, not popularity based on personality.

 

And I checked Gardner's stats, that's the entire point. 6.2 fWAR last year.

And this is why stats can be misleading. There are no stats that can make think Gardner is anything other than a 4th OFer type.

[Cocos Disciples]

While we're talking about voting for defense, Gardner was voted as the best defensive LFer in the Fielding Bible, which is actually legitimate.

[yankees228]

While we're talking about voting for defense' date=' Gardner was voted as the best defensive LFer in the Fielding Bible, which is actually legitimate.

 

How is that legitimate? They use weird stats that aren't assists and errors. That stuff has no place in the gritty game of baseball ... keep that garbage in your mother's basement, where it belongs.

[yankees228]

And this is why stats can be misleading. There are no stats that can make think Gardner is anything other than a 4th OFer type.

 

So in other words ... "I have a preconceived notion about Brett Gardner and no amount of evidence will change my mind." The fact that you think this argument holds any water is fairly baffling.

[a700hitter]

So in other words ... "I have a preconceived notion about Brett Gardner and no amount of evidence will change my mind." The fact that you think this argument holds any water is fairly baffling.

Yankee fans overrate him. He is a nice 4th OFer type as was Chad Curtis, but he is not the best at anything. He is a great base stealer, but the stats this year indicate otherwise. Do you see how stats can mislead? The one thing he is great at and the stats show him to be just Eh.