The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[Dojji]

I'm on board the Crawford express if it doesn't cost us Ellsbury. The possibility of Ellsbury and Crawford together at the top of the lineup is a really appealing one. Even if they are both lefties, that's still a sexy, sexy one-two punch. (with Crawford, obviously, batting 2)

[redsoxrules]

I'm on board the Crawford express if it doesn't cost us Ellsbury. The possibility of Ellsbury and Crawford together at the top of the lineup is a really appealing one. Even if they are both lefties' date=' that's still a sexy, sexy one-two punch. (with Crawford, obviously, batting 2)[/quote']

 

oh no , you cant have back to back lefties in the lineup , remember ? you made a big stink about this before

 

so you would have to bat one of them leadoff and the other towards the bottom of the lineup

[a700hitter]

oh no , you cant have back to back lefties in the lineup , remember ? you made a big stink about this before

 

so you would have to bat one of them leadoff and the other towards the bottom of the lineup

Scutaro could bat behind Crawford on Ellsbury's Spa days.lol!

[Will617]

Technically, not getting Tex is turning out pretty well this season, Beltre and Youk over Arod and Tex for 30 million a year less is pretty good. But I see your point, and agree completely, we missed out on Holliday too, and seriously could use a little extra offense right now.

 

Hall, JVE, Reddick, Patterson, Kalish, Nava, Ellsbury,McDonald, Hermida. Did I miss anyone? I'm pretty sure the count is nine, since Youk/Cameron/Drew haven't played in left.

 

It would've been just Ellsbury if not for a freak injury. And next year, I think it'll be just Kalish.

[redsoxrules]

Scutaro could bat behind Crawford on Ellsbury's Spa days.lol!

 

[a700hitter]

It would've been just Ellsbury if not for a freak injury. And next year' date=' I think it'll be just Kalish.[/quote']You think kalish is ready for every day in LF? Why rush him. He can be the 4th OFer next year and take CF when Ellsbury gets moved after 2011. Crawford is a force. It would be a mistake to pass on him.

[Palodios]

It would've been just Ellsbury if not for a freak injury

 

Do you really believe that between Ellsbury/Cameron/Drew, they're all going to be healthy next year? Even if the situation with Ellsbury is just a freak accident, and he'll be effective next season, the other two guys are incredibly frail. I want another outfielder that will play 140 games.

[Will617]

I think Kalish is ready next year. He already looks good playing defense, is patient at the plate, and (in limited attempts that I've seen) is also good on the basepaths. I'm not sure he has a lot left to learn in the minors. He might be able to get better at reading nasty breaking pitches, but I don't know how far AAA pitchers can help him grow in that area.

If Cameron or Drew aren't offloaded, then Kalish would certainly be avaliable to start the games they miss. If one is offloaded, and we still have one injury-prone player, there's always Nava or McDonald (who aren't terrible in spot duty).

[Dojji]

I think Nava, McDonald and Kalish will be fighting it out for bench duty next year.

[Palodios]

I think McDonald has earned himself the rights to be on a major league roster. He deserves to be a guaranteed 4th outfielder somewhere, but he has no shot at it here.

[a700hitter]

I think Kalish is ready next year. He already looks good playing defense, is patient at the plate, and (in limited attempts that I've seen) is also good on the basepaths. I'm not sure he has a lot left to learn in the minors. He might be able to get better at reading nasty breaking pitches, but I don't know how far AAA pitchers can help him grow in that area.

If Cameron or Drew aren't offloaded, then Kalish would certainly be avaliable to start the games they miss. If one is offloaded, and we still have one injury-prone player, there's always Nava or McDonald (who aren't terrible in spot duty).

Nava and McDonald were admirable emergency fill-ins called up for AAA. They are not options to make the 2011 opening day roster, unless the FO decides to go to an austerity program. I don't see that happening. I'd be surprised if both are still in the RedSox organization. McDonald should be able to catch on somewhere else for a major league roster spot. There is no room on the ML roster for either of them in Boston.

[ORS]

I don't know about that. Nava looked like a competent bat. I'd keep him around, and it wouldn't upset me at all if he earned a spot. McDonald is another story.

[a700hitter]

I think Nava' date=' McDonald and Kalish will be fighting it out for bench duty next year.[/quote']I don't see McDonald being with the organization next season. Nava should stay where he is as an emergency fill-in option. Kalish will get an opportunity to win a roster spot, but I don't think we should be reliying on him to be a starter.

[BSN07]

Kalish shouldn't be sitting on the bench for the Sox next season. If he isn't starting, then he needs to be in AAA getting AB's. I think ideally he takes over for Drew in 2012.

[a700hitter]

Kalish shouldn't be sitting on the bench for the Sox next season. If he isn't starting' date=' then he needs to be in AAA getting AB's. I think ideally he takes over for Drew in 2012.[/quote']The #4 OFer on the Sox generally gets around 300+ ABs if he can play all 3 OF positions. That is not exactly sitting on the bench.

[BSN07]

The #4 OFer on the Sox generally gets around 300+ ABs if he can play all 3 OF positions. That is not exactly sitting on the bench.

 

Fair point. But Nava to me seems a better fit for that role. But I's be satisfied with either as the 4 OF.

[Palodios]

I think its looking like Werth may be closer to the Sox's agenda right now, actually. Between Crawford and the 6 outfielders the team has, only Mcdonald and Cameron are righties. Some are wary of Werth, but he has strung together 4 great seasons, with great RHH power, and decent speed. Plus he'll likely be a bit cheaper, replace Drew in RF well, and the team has already expressed a good amount of interest toward him. Crawford and Ellsbury fill similar purposes, and will create a L-L matchup in the very beginning of the lineup, and displace the team's laser show MVP.

 

For all purposes, I think Werth is much better suited for the team right now.

[redsoxrules]

Would love to have Worth on this team .

 

eventough his defense sucks he can make up for it with the bat big time

[a700hitter]

Would love to have Worth on this team .

 

eventough his defense sucks he can make up for it with the bat big time

I could live with Werth. We are a little lopsided in the OF with lefty hitters making us too vulnerable to lefty pitchers. In that regard he is a better fit, and he has more power, but he still has good speed.

[Dojji]

Late bloomers are early declininers far more often than not. I am very cautious of Werth. He bhas all the hallmarks of an exception, but so did a lot of players that weren't.

[a700hitter]

Late bloomers are early declininers far more often than not. I am very cautious of Werth. He bhas all the hallmarks of an exception' date=' but so did a lot of players that weren't.[/quote']Werth is 31 - the same age as Youkilis. Youkilis bloomed around the same time as Werth. Are you concerned about Youk too?

[Dojji]

Actually yes, although Youk > Werth, and Werth had more chances to break in younger than Youk and couldn't do it.

 

The thing with Youk v. Werth is that when Youkilis did get playing time in his mid 20's, he was effective, that's not so true of Werth. Youk was just a guy squeezed out of playing time he might have otherwise earned -- Werth was GIVEN the time, and was inconsistent

 

Also Youk has better tools than Werth all around I'm still not sure what even Youk will be at age 36 though. It's a concern.

[Palodios]

Youk started at first base in Boston with a .810 OPS in 2006. His first three years he hit .780, .805 and .810 at a big bat position.

 

Werth played 40 games in his first two seasons, and after that he had only one sub .800 OPS season. I don't really think that's a lot of time to be inconsistent.

[Dojji]

OBP in youkilis' first 3 years: .367, .400, .381.

 

OBP in Werth's first 4 years, .340, .255, .338, .338

 

Yeah, Youk was a little light on power, but he was an effective and consistent corner IF. Werth was not an effective and consistent corner OF. He's exhibit A on exactly WHY you don't fuss about players, even at corner positions, who have high OBP but less than normal SLG.

[Will617]

Gotta throw those first two years out for Werth. He had a total of 104 PA.

[a700hitter]

Also Youk has better tools than Werth all around I'm still not sure what even Youk will be at age 36 though. It's a concern.

Youk doesn't have a good baseball body. He's very barrel-chested. He's built more like a lumberjack than a baseball player. Werth has more of a baseball player's physique.

[Palodios]

What is the point of posting stats from his first two years? I don't think you're looking at the big picture of his career. Ignore his first two seasons, and his OPS by season was .825, .711, .863, .861, .879, .924. How can you obsess over two seasons where he played less than 50 AB each?

[Will617]

Buchholz seems to have some difficulty controlling his fastball when he reaches back at 96, 97 MPH.

[Will617]

Oops wrong window, lol.

[example1]

Nava and McDonald were admirable emergency fill-ins called up for AAA. They are not options to make the 2011 opening day roster' date=' unless the FO decides to go to an austerity program. I don't see that happening. I'd be surprised if both are still in the RedSox organization. McDonald should be able to catch on somewhere else for a major league roster spot. There is no room on the ML roster for either of them in Boston.[/quote']

 

I don't know about that. Nava looked like a competent bat. I'd keep him around' date=' and it wouldn't upset me at all if he earned a spot. McDonald is another story.[/quote']

 

I've got to agree with ORS here. Nava is a competent hitter and has a very good eye. He's also a switch-hitter. I see no reason that he wouldn't have a very good shot of holding down a future bench/4th OF spot for the next few years. I think their goal will be to find a way for Kalish to get regular playing time--otherwise they would have him at AAA getting continued ABs.

 

Nava and McDonald are both players who don't necessarily need to mature at the AAA level. Kalish needs to play.

 

I think Kalish may have shown enough to warrant a regular spot on the roster, and probably as a starter. If they go after Crawford or maybe Werth then i would change my view, but with kalish ready and Nava/Reddick set to back him up, I think they will spend their money on other needs.