The "Unofficial Pre- Hot Stove (2010)" thread.

[redsoxrules]

The sox arent outbidding the Yanks for Lee

 

no s*** , they'll give him the same money they gave CC Sabathia

[Palodios]

CC was a few years younger. Halladay at his age only got a 3/60 deal. I'd say 4/100 gets Cliff Lee, considering that he is probably bringing home a Cy Young this year.

[Dojji]

The Angels are going to be a strong contender for Lee's services. They have money and their rotation was a big disappontment this year. Expect them to be in with both feet. If Lee decides he likes the West Coast, they could walk off with him.

[Palodios]

They just dedicated a lot of money to Dan Haren, I'm not sure if they're going to be willing to be looking to spend 22+ a year on another pitcher when their offense is mediocre. Weaver/Haren will be a very strong top of the rotation for them.

[Dojji]

Depends on how comfortable they are going into next season with a top 3 of Jered Weaver, dan Haren and Ervin Santana. Can go either way, I suppose, but that definitely wouldn't be enough in the AL East, especially with the complete disintegration of Scott Kazmir.

[a700hitter]

You skip a step if the "catcher" you grab is Napoli.

 

Just saying.

The way you are beating the drum for Napoli reminds me of the way Example beat the drum for King Felix at this time last year.

 

What's the obsession with Napoli? Are you italian or related to him or something?

[Dojji]

Nah, it's just that I think Napoli's the closest guy to the point where you get all the things Boston needs out of their corner infield/catcher/slugging RHH trade target. Not that he's so great, but more that he fits so many different separate needs in ONE guy, which when you start doing roster math is pretty important.

 

With the departure of Beltre, we'll be short on RHH power. Righthanded power is one of Napoli's better positive attributes.

 

We will be looking for EITHER a catcher OR a first baseman OR a third baseman, presming we sign V-Mart. Napoli can't help us at third, but Youkilis can, and Napoli can play either of the other two positions.

 

We need a guy whose team might actually part with him for a reasonable ROI. I've covered upthread why I think Napoli is one of the better candidates for that. Parting with a Fielder or Gonzalez is a major franchise decision and takes a bigger price by definition. Parting with a guy who you already have 2 players who can cover his positions and whose skillset is at odds with your team philosophy... well, you'll still want a fair price, but you won't force people to overpay.

 

Defense is one of the bigger issues with such a proposed trade, of course, and that is a weakness, but frankly we're going to lose something of our infield defense on the corners no matter what we do -- Adrian Beltre will almost certainly not be in a Sox uniform this time next year. Since I can't think of a single really decent FA third baseman other than Beltre (which is a big factor in why I think he's gone), it's going to be Youks at third next year and we bless his versatility for giving us that option. Just shore up the MI defense as much as you can and get a good backup for the 9th and call it good.

[a700hitter]

Nah' date=' it's just that I think Napoli's the closest guy to the point where you get all the things Boston needs out of their corner infield/catcher/slugging RHH/reasonable price-tag trade target. Not that he's so great, but more that he fits so many different separate needs in ONE guy, which when you start doing roster math is pretty important.[/quote']He might be a really good fit. He sure hurts us at Fenway all the time. What makes you think the Angels would let him go?

[Dojji]

Mathis and Morales, mostly. That and the fact that he doesn't play well into Scioscia's preferences. He has no problem with OBP, but Scioscia likes guys who put the ball in play, advance the baserunners, go first to third, etc. and Napoli's a three true outcomes guy, which doesn't mesh well with what LAA's trying to do. You can see the results in his playing time -- it's not too many teams that combine both A: having troubles with offense and B: sticking a 20-25 HR bat with the potential for more on the bench or restricting him to halftime duty. Napoli needs out of Anaheim.

[a700hitter]

Mathis and Morales' date=' mostly. That and the fact that he doesn't play well into Scioscia's preferences. He has no problem with OBP, but Scioscia likes guys who put the ball in play, advance the baserunners, go first to third, etc. and Napoli's a three true outcomes guy, which doesn't mesh well with what LAA's trying to do. You can see the results in his playing time -- it's not too many teams that combine both A: having troubles with offense and B: sticking a 20-25 HR bat with the potential for more on the bench or restricting him to halftime duty. Napoli needs out of Anaheim.[/quote']I wouldn't be opposed to getting him. That could work. Would you also keep VMart to share first and catcher with Napoli? It would keep them both fresh, and it would free up an additional roster spot for an IF or OFer.

[Dojji]

Yeah, that was Plan A, balance out both catchers at C and 1B to keep their knees fresher and hope you could get 140 games out of both bats, and use Youkilis at 1B with someone like Lowrie at third for the balance of the time or in late innings.

[Palodios]

The unfortunate part of that plan is we know how much Francona hates moving players around. He far prefers to give players their one position, and keep things simple. That's pretty much how he thinks-- the simpler the better.

[BSN07]

Both NY teams, LAA, DC and Baltimore IMO will be the teams in on the bidding for Lee's services.

 

If the new Texas ownership group put's their money where their mouth is, maybe he doesn't see the FA market at all. If they drop a 5/100-130M or even 6/120-140M + a full no trade clause, it may seal the deal.

[Will617]

Really? He seems very willing to shift players around, especially the ones that would be relevant to acquiring Napoli - VMart and Youk (though Youk not so much this year, mostly since Beltre doesn't need time off).

[Palodios]

Youkilis has played 2 games at 3B this year. Vmart has played 7 games at 1B. Does that really make it seem like he's willing to shift players around?

[Will617]

V-Mart played 33 at C and 23 at 1B last year. The reason he and Youk didn't switch around this year was because there was no real need up until Youk's injury - Beltre had 3B down, and we needed Youk's bat in the lineup. Historically, I think Francona has no problem with shifting players around if he needs to in order to get the best lineup on the field.

[BSN07]

Youkilis has played 2 games at 3B this year. Vmart has played 7 games at 1B. Does that really make it seem like he's willing to shift players around?

 

I believe when the acquired V-Mart last season, Tito had quite the rotation going on between C/1B/3B/DH.

 

They have Beltre this season. No need for Youk to play 3B.

 

edit: See the post before mine

[Dojji]

Youkilis has played 2 games at 3B this year. Vmart has played 7 games at 1B. Does that really make it seem like he's willing to shift players around?

 

Beltre has been healthy and dominant at 3B all year. The year before when Lowell was hurt Youks was playing 3B quite regularly. The fact that he hasn't shifted players around when there was no actual reason to do so means rather little.

 

EDIT: Most utterly ninja'd.

[Palodios]

Yes, in 2009, he did a lot of swapping players around. But he wasn't happy about it, and the players weren't happy about it. Its generally not his style, which is why things have been so stable this year.

[Dojji]

It's been stable this year because there was no reason to do it any other way, as 3B was not in the air. However, Tito has never shown any compunction about playing Youkilis at third and filling in 1B as best he could when the situation called for it.

[ORS]

Youkilis has played 2 games at 3B this year. Vmart has played 7 games at 1B. Does that really make it seem like he's willing to shift players around?

Beltre rather than a hurt Lowell has a lot to do with that. Youk doesn't neet to go to 3B, which means VMart doesn't need to cover 1B (until recently).

[Palodios]

The simple fact is that he is a player's manager. Most of these guys don't like being shuffled around, so he avoids it unless its necessary. It was such a problem in 2009 that they traded away LaRoche for the considerably worse Kotsay. They're going to have to sign VMart long term, and they run the risk of frustrating either him or Napoli with plate appearances, whether it be in NL games or otherwise. I like the idea, but I think that its not an ideal situation.

[redsoxrules]

I dont like the Idea of signing V-mart as at 1B , if so the deal better be in the range of 6-8 Mill a year .

[Will617]

He might give the Sox a discount, but that's pretty drastic. Most teams will pay him like a catcher.

[Dojji]

yeah, give up on V-Mart to 1B, besides, there's no great defensive catchers to sign anyway and V-Mart's bat, as great as it is for a catcher, isn't that impressive at first anyway..

[jacksonianmarch]

VMart looked lost at 1b. The problem you run into with VMart is that he's going to want a long term deal. He'd be perfect for a 1 yr deal, IMO. Give Salty some time to get his legs under him and maybe reach out into the 2011 offseason to get another catcher if needed

[Dojji]

Salty makes it easy IMHO. The guy who makes the decision hard is Tek. He's looked a lot better in a part-time role and was a big help when he was in the field this year and emotionally... well it's kind of like the decision you guys have upcoming with Jeter, it's going to be a wrench not having Varitek on the team.

 

Only if we fail to lose Tek this offseason is there any controversy at all. If Tek moves on to coaching or signs somewhere else, then it's Victor and Salty or Salty and Wagner. If he stays, it cold get complicated, if only because I think Salty's out of options.

[Yaz Sideburn]

The sox arent outbidding the Yanks for Lee

 

i agree, but not because they couldn't but because they don't need him as much as the yankees do

[a700hitter]

i agree' date=' but not because they couldn't but because they don't need him as much as the yankees do[/quote']Our rotation is solid. I'd rather get Carl Crawford. When a player who is a force becomes available, you need to try to get him. Tex is a force with the bat and with the glove. We missed out on him, and look how that is turning out. Crawford is an offensive force with his bat and his speed. He's a game changer. We need to get him. We have a big opening in LF. How many LFers have we had this season? Does anyone know? If we get Crawford, you pencil in his name every day for years.

[Palodios]

Our rotation is solid. I'd rather get Carl Crawford. When a player who is a force becomes available' date=' you need to try to get him. Tex is a force with the bat and with the glove. We missed out on him, and look how that is turning out. Crawford is an offensive force with his bat and his speed. He's a game changer. We need to get him. We have a big opening in LF. How many LFers have we had this season? Does anyone know? If we get Crawford, you pencil in his name every day for years.[/quote']

 

Technically, not getting Tex is turning out pretty well this season, Beltre and Youk over Arod and Tex for 30 million a year less is pretty good. But I see your point, and agree completely, we missed out on Holliday too, and seriously could use a little extra offense right now.

 

Hall, JVE, Reddick, Patterson, Kalish, Nava, Ellsbury,McDonald, Hermida. Did I miss anyone? I'm pretty sure the count is nine, since Youk/Cameron/Drew haven't played in left.