2010 Trade Deadline

[jacksonianmarch]

Trying to get a better deal is standard negotiating. Backing out of an agreed upon deal is deceitful

[example1]

Let's put it this way. The sox went into a west coast trip needing to gain ground. They won 5 of 9' date=' but the Yankees and Rays managed to increase their lead. On July 18th, the sox record was 52-40 and they were 7 games back in the L column of NY and 4 back of the Rays. Now, they are 8 games back in the L column of NY and 6 games back of the Rays. That's a big deficit, and it will get bigger if they lose tonight.[/quote']

 

The part that's hard for most of us about your pessimism is that the Red Sox were 6 games back in the loss column of both NY and TB on May 10th. By July 3rd they were half a game back. The Yankees didn't lose half of their team during that stretch and neither did the Rays. That doesn't mean the Sox are assured of catching up, but they are obviously a very good team and teams make great second half runs very frequently in this sport.

 

Let's put it this way: if the Yankees or Rays were in the same position I wouldn't be counting them out yet. Would I say a comeback is unlikely or improbable? Yeah.

 

Honestly, the thing I will ultimately look at is how many wins they get. If they get 95 wins and don't make the playoffs I'm not going to go into the offseason on a huge down note and neither will most of the posters here. We will expect improvements to be able to compete with these obviously great NY and TB teams, but I can't hold it against this team if they have a great record despite fighting huge injury problems. Even 92 wins would be impressive in my book.

[jacksonianmarch]

The sox are on pace for 92 wins. The Yankees are on pace for 104 wins and the Rays for right around 101. The sox got ambushed by injuries and are a very good team. But you are asking some recently returning players to be superhuman on return

[ORS]

A trade was agreed upon' date=' then they backed out to get a bigger offer.[/quote']

You don't know what the agreement was, only what reported as "agreed upon in principle". That "principle" is very likely to have been a caveat that they were awaiting the Ranger's final offer or acceptance of an offer they made. Pretending you know exactly what happened to portray the Yankees as a victim is bogus.

[jacksonianmarch]

An agreement in principle should theoretically mean that you dont field any more offers. But it is all water under the bridge. The fact remains, that the Yanks put their best foot forward for Lee

[msubulldogs21]

Honestly' date=' the thing I will ultimately look at is how many wins they get. If they get 95 wins and don't make the playoffs I'm not going to go into the offseason on a huge down note and neither will most of the posters here. We will expect improvements to be able to compete with these obviously great NY and TB teams, but I can't hold it against this team if they have a great record despite fighting huge injury problems. Even 92 wins would be impressive in my book.[/quote']

 

If you take the Red Sox out of the AL East there's not a doubt in my mind we win any other division in baseball. Hands down. However, somebody's got to finish 3rd in the AL East. I hope it's not us, but if we win 93-95 and still don't make the playoffs what can you do.

[yankees228]

An agreement in principle should theoretically mean that you dont field any more offers. But it is all water under the bridge. The fact remains' date=' that the Yanks put their best foot forward for Lee[/quote']

 

And were willing to give up their best prospect for two and a half months of a player that they might very well acquire after the season. They very clearly recognize that the rotation is a problem, yet after losing out on Lee, they failed to address this issue.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you take the Red Sox out of the AL East there's not a doubt in my mind we win any other division in baseball. Hands down. However' date=' somebody's got to finish 3rd in the AL East. I hope it's not us, but if we win 93-95 and still don't make the playoffs what can you do.[/quote']

 

But third place and a missed playoff run doesnt do you any good. If the sox win 92 games and miss the playoffs by 8 games, is that really beneficial to the 2011 sox? Or would a sell off, getting a top prospect for Beltre or VMart and then signing a bunch of guys in the offseason to reload for 2011 be the more prudent way to go. The only reason why I bring this up is because the sox have 3 top notch offensive players in the last yr of their contracts in a market where the offense available has been pretty minimal

[example1]

Burnett and Pettitte are a solid 2-3 when Burnett isnt in one of his bad spells, which he seems to be passing by. And Vazquez has looked really frickin good since early May. Not sure what else you want? Lee would have been incredible, but the M's screwed us.

 

Burnett's struggles are passing by? That's good to know. I see that in his last 11.1 IPs he hasn't given up a run, against CLE and KC. The start before that he was bad against TB and coming off of a horrible month of starts where he gave up 6 and 7 runs virtually every time out. He wouldn't instill a lot of confidence in me if he were on the Red Sox.

[ORS]

An agreement in principle should theoretically mean that you dont field any more offers. But it is all water under the bridge. The fact remains' date=' that the Yanks put their best foot forward for Lee[/quote']

No, an agreement in principle means that there is still something upon which the final agreement is contingent. That something could be anything.

[jacksonianmarch]

And were willing to give up their best prospect for two and a half months of a player that they might very well acquire after the season. They very clearly recognize that the rotation is a problem' date=' yet after losing out on Lee, they failed to address this issue.[/quote']

 

It doesnt connote a problem. It was the chance to acquire probably the best pitcher in the AL, which by default makes you better

[jacksonianmarch]

No' date=' an agreement in principle means that there is still something upon which the final agreement is contingent. That something could be anything.[/quote']

 

fair enough

[yankees228]

It doesnt connote a problem. It was the chance to acquire probably the best pitcher in the AL' date=' which by default makes you better[/quote']

 

I don't think they would give up their best prospect for a rental if they didn't believe the rotation was an issue.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think they considered him a rental

[yankees228]

I dont think they considered him a rental

 

But they should be able to sign him after the season anyway, without having to give up Montero. Either way, they're trading their best prospect for two and a half months of a pitcher. I can't believe they'd do that if they believed Lee was a luxury.

[ORS]

But they should be able to sign him after the season anyway' date=' without having to give up Montero. Either way, they're trading their best prospect for two and a half months of a pitcher. I can't believe they'd do that if they believed Lee was a luxury.[/quote']

This is spot on.

[Dipre]

Yankees starters have had the following ERA by month:

 

April: 3.41

 

May: 3.94

 

June: 4.49

 

July: 3.27

 

You gloss over those stats and think they're A-OK, but here's the problem:

 

Yankee rotation, peripherals by month:

 

April: 1.20 WHIP, 7.0 K/9, 2.02 K/BB

 

May: 1.29 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.51 K/BB

 

June: 1.29 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 2.39 K/BB

 

July: 1.31 WHIP, 6.5 K/9, 2.21 K/BB

 

Not coincidentially, while the ERA for July is low, that has a lot to do with the strength of the schedule, because the peripherals were below the benchmark set by the starters for the rest of the year, and it coincides with Hughes' recent ineffectivenes, and Pettite's injuries.

 

The fact of the matter is, that Javy Vasquez, Andy Pettite (due to the recent injury), Hughes and Burnett, are currently all Wild-Cards, and the Yankees needed a starter to cement their "Big three" for the playoffs, because the assumption that one (or even two) of the above mentioned starters were bound to get their act together. The fact is, the rotation has struggled, no use denying it, and as Y228 pointed out, they weren't going to dangle their top prospect for a rental, get turned down, then go after another starter, if they didn't think adding said starter was necessary.

[SoxSport]

While the Red Sox are trying hard to keep their balance on the salary cap tightrope, the Yankees just bought the Houston Astros. It's like trying to fight City Hall. Can't be done without a cap. NY is like a 300 lb fatman eating a 30 oz steak--while ordering another.

 

The best thing Epstein can do this year at the deadline is nothing. Just get your wounded back and hope for the best. Keep Lowell, and platoon him with the declining Ortiz. Leave the BP alone. That means use it less. Relievers are getting burned out. Maybe they just need more rest between appearances.

[yankees228]

While the Red Sox are trying hard to keep their balance on the salary cap tightrope, the Yankees just bought the Houston Astros. It's like trying to fight City Hall. Can't be done without a cap. NY is like a 300 lb fatman eating a 30 oz steak--while ordering another.

 

The best thing Epstein can do this year at the deadline is nothing. Just get your wounded back and hope for the best. Keep Lowell, and platoon him with the declining Ortiz. Leave the BP alone. That means use it less. Relievers are getting burned out. Maybe they just need more rest between appearances.

 

The Astros are paying the majority of Berkman's remaining contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yankees starters have had the following ERA by month:

 

April: 3.41

 

May: 3.94

 

June: 4.49

 

July: 3.27

 

You gloss over those stats and think they're A-OK, but here's the problem:

 

Yankee rotation, peripherals by month:

 

April: 1.20 WHIP, 7.0 K/9, 2.02 K/BB

 

May: 1.29 WHIP, 7.1 K/9, 2.51 K/BB

 

June: 1.29 WHIP, 8.0 K/9, 2.39 K/BB

 

July: 1.31 WHIP, 6.5 K/9, 2.21 K/BB

 

Not coincidentially, while the ERA for July is low, that has a lot to do with the strength of the schedule, because the peripherals were below the benchmark set by the starters for the rest of the year, and it coincides with Hughes' recent ineffectivenes, and Pettite's injuries.

 

The fact of the matter is, that Javy Vasquez, Andy Pettite (due to the recent injury), Hughes and Burnett, are currently all Wild-Cards, and the Yankees needed a starter to cement their "Big three" for the playoffs, because the assumption that one (or even two) of the above mentioned starters were bound to get their act together. The fact is, the rotation has struggled, no use denying it, and as Y228 pointed out, they weren't going to dangle their top prospect for a rental, get turned down, then go after another starter, if they didn't think adding said starter was necessary.

 

A sub 1.3WHIP and a K/BB over 2 for an entire rotation in the AL is struggling? Must be some good hash in the DR.

 

Lets combine those numbers, shall we?

 

The Yankees rotation is 2nd in the AL in ERA at 3.81. Oakland is the only team lower.

The Yankees rotation is 4th in the AL in QS's, with 59, 4 off the lead from TB

The Yankees rotation is 4th in the AL in WHIP at 1.28, .02 off the lead from Oakland

The Yankees rotation is 2nd in the AL in K/9 at 7.17, .08 off the lead from Toronto

 

This is a struggling rotation?

[DirtDog331724632256]

I think we need a reliever. Preferably a lefty.

 

but who the hell am I to say

[SoxSport]

I think we need a reliever. Preferably a lefty.

 

but who the hell am I to say

 

 

Every high use reliever the Sox get seems to go sour after a year or two. I'm not saying Tito uses the BP much differently than any other manager (I think they all overdo it), but I think it's evident what they save in pitch counts for starters, they lose in too many 1-inning appearances for relievers. Don't forget, those relievers throw more pitches heating up in the BP than they throw in the game. Something that the media overlooks.

 

Johnny Sain, the great pitching coach, always said the heatup was the wear and tear. That means fewer appearances, more innings per appearance, is better.

[JimEdHOF2009]

I am one who thinks Theo has something brewing. Everytime I have heard rumors involving Sox well before deadline they never come to pass.. probably because it gives other teams like the effing Yankees time to interfere. I have a feeling there may be a MAJOR deal brewing. I also like the fact that Gammons knows nothing..because he is usually spouting off silly rumors which never come to pass. I would love an Abreu/Fuentes package...not sure if Angels are giving up yet...but they should.

[BSN07]

They're going with what they have. Maybe a small piece here and there. But nothing Major. People just need to understand this.

 

 

As for the BP. What about Nate Robertson as a Lefty specialist? His numbers vs LHH are decent.

[JimEdHOF2009]

 

Rosenthal tweeting NEW teams getting in on Dunn..he also says Rays are not aggressively seeking a bat... So we can count out TB/CHW/NY/.... I believe the Sox are in on this. Theo has always liked Dunn and Anderson is tearing it up at AA with 1.056 OPS.. this would seem to be a good fit. Maybe another mid-level... Dunn wouldn't kill us in left at Fenway...but he would probably get hurt running around on the road.. One thing is for certain..He would have no problem clearing the bullpens at the Fens..with room to spare.

[alphilip77]

 

Rosenthal tweeting NEW teams getting in on Dunn..he also says Rays are not aggressively seeking a bat... So we can count out TB/CHW/NY/.... I believe the Sox are in on this. Theo has always liked Dunn and Anderson is tearing it up at AA with 1.056 OPS.. this would seem to be a good fit. Maybe another mid-level... Dunn wouldn't kill us in left at Fenway...but he would probably get hurt running around on the road.. One thing is for certain..He would have no problem clearing the bullpens at the Fens..with room to spare.

 

Where would Dunn fit? We already have a DH and a 1B, both of whom are pretty darn good.

[alphilip77]

I think it's best (aside from a few MINOR moves) if we stand pat this year. While we have recovered to a degree from our injuries, we're running out of the most important thing: time. With only 60 or so games left, and both the Rays and Yankees 6.5-7.5 games ahead of us for both the WC and division, it makes more sense to see what we have internally. If we end up making the post-season, great. If we don't, no big deal, given the situation we're in this season. I also heard that Doubront and Bowden could be called up fairly soon to play through the bullpen. Hopefully this means that MDC and Okajima's days are numbered.

[JimEdHOF2009]

Werth is there for the taking... Theo had a f***ing month to get him! Even when all of our players return we still need an outfielder! Cameron is toast.

[Dojji]

No way. This season isn't worth leveraging the future for anymore. Our chances of making the playoffs have to be less than 30%. When you're a small market team, a 30% chance is worth leaping it because it might be the best chance you'll get in awhile, but in our case, it's the worst chance we've had at the deadline since the three-division era began.

 

This means no rentals. It doesn't, however, mean don't make a deal. Just anyone we get needs to be here next year too to be worth mortgaging a major piece of our franchise's future for..

[Spudboy]

I think it's best (aside from a few MINOR moves) if we stand pat this year. While we have recovered to a degree from our injuries' date=' we're running out of the most important thing: time. With only 60 or so games left, and both the Rays and Yankees 6.5-7.5 games ahead of us for both the WC and division, it makes more sense to see what we have internally. If we end up making the post-season, great. If we don't, no big deal, given the situation we're in this season. I also heard that Doubront and Bowden could be called up fairly soon to play through the bullpen. Hopefully this means that MDC and Okajima's days are numbered.[/quote']

 

I'm with you. But who knows?