Thoughts on Strasburg

[DirtDog331724632256]

Over the last week there was a lot of hype of this kid.

He debuted with 7 IP, 14 K, 2 ER

 

His fastball is lively with good movement and he complements it with a wicked curve.

That sinker has some good movement on it aswell.

 

Anyhow I was wondering what you guys think of this kid and all the hype that has been talked up during the last few days

[WhiskeyBreath]

Going with Schilling on this one, best pitcher ever.

[DirtDog331724632256]

Going with Schilling on this one' date=' best pitcher ever.[/quote']

 

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2010/05/schilling_strasburg_could_be_m.html

[bsox0407]

He was great after the first inning but i attribute the first inning wildness to nerves.

 

As for best pitcher ever now is a tad early. Teams have not got to know his tendencies as a pitcher and i want to wait a few years before i can call him best ever. Also I would like to see him play a top notch high powered offense and see how he does. No-offense to the pirates they are not the best hitting in baseball.

[Spudboy]

I hope he is more successful than David Clyde.

[TedWilliams101]

My thoughts? Amazing. If he can continue to progress, make adjustments, and work on his change-up (and of course stay healthy), the sky is the limit. I agree it's way to early to start talk of "greatest ever", but as prospects go, the kid is as good as it gets.

[Keeper]

I think it's kind of interesting that Jim Riggleman is his skipper, as Riggs also had Kerry Wood when he was a rookie phenom.

 

Hopefully, Strasburg can do what Wood was never able to do: stay healthy.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I saw some of him pitching on t.v, my god, the way his pitches moved was awesome.

[Dipre]

Best stuff i've ever seen on any pitcher, period. But stuff alone doesn't make the pitcher, so let's see him perform over a period fo time to further asses his abilities. Calling his debut "impressive" is a massive understatement even if it was against the pirates.

[a700hitter]

David Clyde? Wow, I remember the hoopla over him. My recollection is that he won his debut and pitches 5 innings. That was the high point of his career. They made the kid into a side show and ruined him. He came straight from High School to the majors if I remember correctly.

[TheMino007]

Amazing, Strasburg was a kid that not only lived up to the hype, but far exceeded it. 14 K's in 7 inn. and only 2 ER. That is crazy

[yeszir]

....against the pirates. Let's see him play a real team.

 

Also: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/09/AR2010060901643.html

[rhet]

I'm glad I drafted him.

[redsoxrules]

the guy is just sick

 

fastball was 97-100 constant all night long

changeup at at 90-92 and curveball 80-84

 

I cant get over that he was throwing changeups at 92 MPH , just WOW

[suns]

I think he will throw a no hitter vs. the Guardians in his next start.

[suns]

the guy is just sick

 

fastball was 97-100 constant all night long

changeup at at 90-92 and curveball 80-84

 

I cant get over that he was throwing changeups at 92 MPH , just WOW

 

He reached 101 on his fastball last night.

[Dojji]

My thought was that it was 7 fantastic innings against a mediocre team. No more, no less. he's certainly got great stuff, let's see if he can keep it up for a few months before crowning him God.

 

Couple warning signs going forward though. He's got that W to his windup that can raise concerns about his health longterm and I thought he threw too much from the shoulder. I'm hardly an expert though.

 

It's up to his team not to abuse him and let him develop the muscles he needs to fully achieve his ceiling before trying to treat him as if he already has. talented young phenoms are the most vulnerable possible thing, if you abuse them you reap hell for it for years, but it can be hard to resist when you have this kid with unbelievable stuff and you're trying to win games.

[CoachC.]

Strasburg shouldn't see the 8th inning for at least a year.

[Dipre]

My thought was that it was 7 fantastic innings against a mediocre team. No more, no less. he's certainly got great stuff, let's see if he can keep it up for a few months before crowning him God.

 

Couple warning signs going forward though. He's got that W to his windup that can raise concerns about his health longterm and I thought he threw too much from the shoulder. I'm hardly an expert though.

 

It's up to his team not to abuse him and let him develop the muscles he needs to fully achieve his ceiling before trying to treat him as if he already has. talented young phenoms are the most vulnerable possible thing, if you abuse them you reap hell for it for years, but it can be hard to resist when you have this kid with unbelievable stuff and you're trying to win games.

 

After doing some research, his mechanics seem awfully similar to Mark Prior's, the "windup W" assesment is semi-correct, since the actual angle of his body mid-stride seems to vary from start to start. Bottom line: Messy mechanics= penchant for injury. The Nats should treat him carefully.

[Palodios]

Normally I'd agree, but remember what Lincecum taught us. Bad mechanics+ good health = Cy Youngs.

[Dipre]

Normally I'd agree' date=' but remember what Lincecum taught us. Bad mechanics+ good health = Cy Youngs.[/quote']

 

The problem is that Lincecum's mechanics, at least from what i gather, are not bad. He uses a full-body throwing motion, which helps ease the stress on his elbow and shoulder.

[jacksonianmarch]

Prior was run into the ground by an idiot manager. Strasburg has very good mechanics. Yes, his arm-whip has a correlation (be it real or mythical) with increased injury. But I like his mechanics. Not too herky-jerky and ends up in a straight plane to the plate, which IMO is the best way to prevent injury. IE, throwing across your body stresses tendons in your cuff in more ways than throwing downhill, like SS does. If he is handled properly, his stuff equates to a Cy Young/HOF caliber pitcher. He has three generational pitches. IE, the best pitches in a generation. He reminds me of a bigger Pedro. Locates precisely, throws incredibly hard, has run to his FB, sink to his 2 seamer, sharp, late bite to the curve and serious deception and run to his changeup. If this guy stays healthy, he is gonna be dominant, and probably a Yankee in 6 yrs on a contract unseen by a pitcher in history.

[Dipre]

Stephen Strasburg is a 6'4" power pitcher hailing from San Diego State University. He features an upper-90's fastball that led him to an 8-3 record as a sophomore, pitching 97 innings and recording 133 strikeouts.

 

He is the favorite to be drafted first overall in the 2009 MLB amateur draft, and for good reason - he shined in the Olympics and his pure stuff is off the charts.

 

What's his delivery look like, though?

 

A few notes before I get into the analysis of his pitching mechanics:

 

1. That is very, very fast.

2. That Cuban hitter has a pretty good swing.

 

Arm Action: I don't like it. He starts his arm action with a pendulum swing, but has a bad "grab" as he tenses up his wrist and takes his elbow well beyond his acromial line in an attempt to "load" his scapula in a forced manner. He actually reminds me a lot of Mark Prior (gasp!). Take a look:

 

I tried to make it as synchronous as possible (reload your browser after both images are fully downloaded). Note the point at which both images pause - you can see maximum shoulder abduction in a similar spot with both pitchers. Very Bad.

 

Tempo: Strasburg is 21-22 frames from maximal leg lift into footplant. Average to Bad.

 

Ball Release: Pretty good. He points his pitching arm shoulder at the target and doesn't stop the forward flow of momentum. Good.

 

Followthrough: Though his ball release phase is good, this part of his delivery is truly Very Bad. His glove arm hangs lazily by his thigh and he has an abrupt arm jerk as he seems to be actively braking his arm during the deceleration phase.

 

Strasburg reminds me a lot of Mark Prior - a truly dominant right-handed college pitcher with troubling mechanics: Bad arm action combined with slow tempo. I predict a steady loss of velocity over the first few years of his career leading to him dropping his arm slot and then a major shoulder injury.

 

Full version with graphics: http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/11/18/665018/quick-note-stephen-strasbu

[Palodios]

The problem is that Lincecum's mechanics' date=' at least from what i gather, are not bad. He uses a full-body throwing motion, which helps ease the stress on his elbow and shoulder.[/quote']

 

I'm no expert, but everything I've read says that while he eases the stress from the elbow and shoulder, he puts a lot more pressure on his back and abdomen, which is where the injury risks are.

[Dipre]

I'm no expert' date=' but everything I've read says that while he eases the stress from the elbow and shoulder, he puts a lot more pressure on his back and abdomen, which is where the injury risks are.[/quote']

 

The worst injury areas for a pitcher are the piching arm, specially his shoulder.

[Dipre]

This analysis concurs with the initial one:

 

The video clip below, which I obtained from Driveline Mechanics, is of the pitching mechanics of Stephen Strasburg. The problem is that Stephen Strasburg's pitching mechanics appears to have been heavily influenced by, and are remarkably similar to, those of Mark Prior.

 

 

The thing to pay attention to in this clip is the Inverted W that is clearly visible in Frame 23 and Frame 24.

 

 

While the Inverted W isn't automatically bad, in Stephen Strasburg's case it does create a significant timing problem.

 

Notice that in Frame 26, when Stephen Strasburg's Glove Side (GS) foot plants and his shoulders start to rotate, his Pitching Arm Side (PAS) forearm is just above the horizontal rather than being vertical (or nearly so) as I prefer. In Frame 27, when Stephen Strasburg's shoulder's have clearly rotate a significant amount, his PAS is still not yet vertical.

 

 

All of this causes Stephen Strasburg's PAS upper arm to externally rotate especially hard and much (see Frame 29) which significantly increases the load on the elbow and the shoulder. What's more it looks like this external rotation, as with Mark Prior, occurs with his PAS upper arm elevated in a position of hyperabduction.

 

If you combine this with Stephen Strasburg's plus to plus plus velocity and the fact that he seems to be a fastball/slider guy, rather than a fastball/change-up guy, you've got someone who is putting tremendous, and likely excessive, stress on his elbow and his shoulder.

 

The Bottom Line on Stephen Strasburg

 

The bottom line on Stephen Strasburg is that, while he may be a consensus number one like David Price, mechanically speaking Stephen Strasburg is no David Price.

Like Mark Prior, Stephen Strasburg has some significant Inverted W in his arm action and a timing problem as a result (aka habitual rushing). This will significantly increase the load on his elbow and his shoulder and make him a very high risk draft choice. I could even see him pulling a Cole St. Clair and blowing up mid-season.

However, because his mechanics in some of the frames I have seen aren't quite as bad as Mark Prior's, and he sometimes makes the Horizontal W rather than the Inverted W...

 

...there is a chance that Stephen Strasburg could have a career more like a John Smoltz. In that case, he would be effective for periods of time but would also struggle with elbow and shoulder problems. It's a bit hard to say for sure, since Stephen Strasburg seems to show significant variability in his arm action from year to year.

 

Full version with graphics: http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/baseball/pitching/ProfessionalPitcherAnalyses/StephenStrasburg.html

[26 to 6]

Full version with graphics: http://www.drivelinemechanics.com/2008/11/18/665018/quick-note-stephen-strasbu

To be fair though, if I'm not mistaken isn't that scouting report/assessment from almost 2 years ago? I agree his mechanics need to improve as he goes along, but I didn't see any bright red flags in watching him throw yesterday. Mainly just a handful of things that he needs to adjust, but adjustments are a part of the game; players are constantly making adjustments over the course of their careers. He looked a little (I don't want to say herky-jerky...) uneasy at times last night, but I saw a lot of nice, smooth deliveries. He just needs to be more consistent with muscle mechanics in his motion. Overall though, I think he looked pretty damn good in his debut, all things considered. He could very well be a legend in the making.

 

My thought was that it was 7 fantastic innings against a mediocre team. No more, no less. he's certainly got great stuff, let's see if he can keep it up for a few months before crowning him God.

 

Couple warning signs going forward though. He's got that W to his windup that can raise concerns about his health longterm and I thought he threw too much from the shoulder. I'm hardly an expert though.

 

It's up to his team not to abuse him and let him develop the muscles he needs to fully achieve his ceiling before trying to treat him as if he already has. talented young phenoms are the most vulnerable possible thing, if you abuse them you reap hell for it for years, but it can be hard to resist when you have this kid with unbelievable stuff and you're trying to win games.

 

I agree with all these points. He still has a lot to prove at this level, and he's still yet to face much better competition (although just being in the NL East, and the NL in better gives him an major edge) at the big league level, but I think there's no doubt going forward that he's capable of having a very special career. He's got all the stuff, poise, and talent to do so. We call 'em "intangibles" around here. lol

See Joba Chamberlain

[Dipre]

To be fair though' date=' if I'm not mistaken isn't that scouting report/assessment from almost 2 years ago? I agree his mechanics need to improve as he goes along, but I didn't see any bright red flags in watching him throw yesterday. Mainly just a handful of things that he needs to adjust, but adjustments are a part of the game; players are constantly making adjustments over the course of their careers. He looked a little (I don't want to say herky-jerky...) [i']uneasy [/i]at times last night, but I saw a lot of nice, smooth deliveries. He just needs to be more consistent with muscle mechanics in his motion. Overall though, I think he looked pretty damn good in his debut, all things considered. He could very well be a legend in the making.

 

His mechanics haven't changed. I checked it out thoroughly using MLB.TV. Same arm-angle, same stride, same finish.

[jacksonianmarch]

I must say, though, a lot of this "Inverted W" and strain/stress stuff has never actually been proven to be detrimental to the arm any more than the standard "perfect" motion. I understand kinesiology and the physics of it, but none of the above has actually proven to contribute to injury. It's all theory. And I will tell you, when it comes to the body, theory is wrong a lot more than you think

[Dipre]

So the fact that a someone's mechanics literally place more stress while pitching than "regular" mechanics has not been proven to be detrimental in the long run?