Red Sox injury updates

[mvp 78]

So a "viable" solution is a player that might not be able to bat .200?

[Dojji]

Any player MIGHT not be able to bat .200. In case you hadn't noticed, Navarro put up solid numbers in AAA before he got called up, his bat is closer than you're trying to make it appear. He's not ever going to be Derek Jeter, but he isn't Tony Pena, Jr. either. For a shortstop I don't see any reason he can't meet the very low offensive standards of his position.

[mvp 78]

16 games in AAA = small sample size.

[Dojji]

So are his 6 MLB games that you seem to be judging the guy on. At least the 16 AAA games agree with a larger 88 game sample size in AA which helps lend them credibility.

 

You're really trying very hard to disbelieve in Navarro, there's absolutely no need to be so relentlessly skeptical.

[mvp 78]

There's no reason to be relentlessly homerish over every player that Sox Prospects has a hard-on for. You haven't given one reason that he'd be a viable option if Scutaro was out for the year. Right now, we have no idea what he could do. How is that a viable option for a team trying to make the playoffs every year?

 

He hasn't given me one reason to make me believe he could be a starter. Why do you have such blind faith?

[Dojji]

*sigh* Could you try not to be so predictable? I was hoping for a conversation, not a numb repetition of tired old sports forum cliches.

 

I have given plenty of reasons why Navarro is a viable option. He has strong tools, has performed well in the upper minors between AA and AAA, has demonstrated good gap power and OBP, and the standards for his offense at short are low enough to meet even if there are rough patches. Now we spoiled Red Sox fans who are used to offensive juggernauts in every position may have an issue with a guy with a .260/.320/.380 line, which is about his MLE's, but it's actually average or slightly above among big league shortstops. There's a lot of guys who are out there for a combination of a good glove and "veteranosity."

 

So he might not be good enough to please the offensive purists, but he is "viable" as near as I can determine, especially if he gets consistent AB's. Not that it wouldn't be at least a bit of a rush job, but only really by half a season or so.

[mvp 78]

There, was it that hard for you to explain your position? Jeez. My point still remains that until he produces at the Major League level, I'm not going to believe he's viable.

 

Oh, I wasn't using cliches, I was using your posts to prove how thin your original argument was.

[a700hitter]

If we go into the 2011 regular season with Lowrie, Navarro or Iglesias as the starting SS, I think I'll open a vein. Does that clarify my view?

[Dojji]

There, was it that hard for you to explain your position? Jeez. My point still remains that until he produces at the Major League level, I'm not going to believe he's viable.

 

Oh, I wasn't using cliches, I was using your posts to prove how thin your original argument was.

 

Nothing I said in that post was something I hadn't said before in this thread other than possibly the MLE's. I put a fair bit of research into this discussion in order to defend my point, all you did was express doubt and put words in my mouth in a lame attempt to save face. And you're still at it.

 

This is as far as it goes for me, but I really am disappointed.

[jacksonianmarch]

*sigh* Could you try not to be so predictable? I was hoping for a conversation, not a numb repetition of tired old sports forum cliches.

 

I have given plenty of reasons why Navarro is a viable option. He has strong tools, has performed well in the upper minors between AA and AAA, has demonstrated good gap power and OBP, and the standards for his offense at short are low enough to meet even if there are rough patches. Now we spoiled Red Sox fans who are used to offensive juggernauts in every position may have an issue with a guy with a .260/.320/.380 line, which is about his MLE's, but it's actually average or slightly above among big league shortstops. There's a lot of guys who are out there for a combination of a good glove and "veteranosity."

 

So he might not be good enough to please the offensive purists, but he is "viable" as near as I can determine, especially if he gets consistent AB's. Not that it wouldn't be at least a bit of a rush job, but only really by half a season or so.

 

Navarro might have a big league future, but if I were a sox fan, I'd much rather he get another yr at AAA. He's played only 16 games at AAA in his career and he's obviously overmatched right now in the bigs. I doubt he'd be ready

[Dipre]

Ooooooh, tempers are flaring quite a bit lately.

 

I wonder how much creativity will be required into turning all of the arguments into being my fault by a couple mods and a specific poster who shall remain nameless.

 

Also, Doiji gets what's coming to him. You cannot be such a blatant homer or get such hard-ons for players regardless of their skillsets or how they would actually benefit the team without eventually getting responses like this, because of, you know, logic and things like that.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Dojji had his way, Anderson would be at 1b, Rizzo at DH, Pedroia at 2b, Navarro at SS, Lowrie at 3b, Kalish in LF, Reddick in CF, Nava in RF, Salty at C with a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Bowden, Doubront and Kelly

[a700hitter]

If Dojji had his way' date=' Anderson would be at 1b, Rizzo at DH, Pedroia at 2b, Navarro at SS, Lowrie at 3b, Kalish in LF, Reddick in CF, Nava in RF, Salty at C with a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Bowden, Doubront and Kelly[/quote']... And we'd be 10 games behind the Orioles.

[mvp 78]

Nothing I said in that post was something I hadn't said before in this thread other than possibly the MLE's. I put a fair bit of research into this discussion in order to defend my point, all you did was express doubt and put words in my mouth in a lame attempt to save face. And you're still at it.

 

This is as far as it goes for me, but I really am disappointed.

 

*sigh*

 

You've said that Navarro could use another 1-2 years in Pawtucket. Does that really sound like a "viable" major leaguer? Not to me.

 

Also, when someone produces well at AAA doesn't mean it'll transform in the bigs. I had PawSox season tickets for long enough to know that. And I didn't put any words in your mouth that weren't already there.

 

I wish I had your undying optimism about every prospect. I've just been around long enough to know that the vast majority don't work out.

[BMPritchard]

For the record you think Mike Cameron signing is good - yes or no?

 

I really wanted A-Gon but he bolted for Blue Jays for 6 Mill - not sure he is worth that much.

 

I liked the Mike Cameron before the season started, but he has not been on the field enough. I would have loved to have Alex Gonzalez around, I wish we had signed him to a long term deal when we had him. Seems like the list goes on forever of SS's we have let go for either justified or non-justified reasons...Agon's worth that six mil this year for sure.

[BMPritchard]

Also - I thought I should add, I waited on Mike Cameron at the restaurant I work at a few days ago. Very bizarre experience.

[Spudboy]

Also - I thought I should add' date=' I waited on Mike Cameron at the restaurant I work at a few days ago. Very bizarre experience.[/quote']

 

How so?

[jacksonianmarch]

Any player MIGHT not be able to bat .200. In case you hadn't noticed' date=' Navarro put up solid numbers in AAA before he got called up, his bat is closer than you're trying to make it appear. He's not ever going to be Derek Jeter, but he isn't Tony Pena, Jr. either. For a shortstop I don't see any reason he can't meet the very low offensive standards of his position.[/quote']

 

His AA numbers show he is ready for AAA. His MLB performance and just based on how his ABs look, he is overmatched. This isnt really that difficult to see. He looks lost in the box against MLB pitching. He goes to AAA and we see how he does from there. He had 16 games at AAA. He needs a full season

[ORS]

Nothing I said in that post was something I hadn't said before in this thread other than possibly the MLE's. I put a fair bit of research into this discussion in order to defend my point, all you did was express doubt and put words in my mouth in a lame attempt to save face. And you're still at it.

 

This is as far as it goes for me, but I really am disappointed.

Uh, no.

 

You said his MLE's were .260/.320/.380. Not even close.

 

[table]Level|PA|BA|OBP|SLG

AA|378|.221|.284|.328

AAA|59|.245|.296|.439[/table]

 

Those are his MLE's by level for 2010, which is composite OPS of .628. Your research consisted of reaching deep into your nether regions and pulling out some fabricated data to support your weak notion that this guy is a viable SS option for 2011.

[jacksonianmarch]

Exactly. Does he have promise, absolutely. Is he ready? Not at all.

[a700hitter]

I really can't believe that members are researching and debating the minor league stats of some nobody. Here's the relevant fact about Navarro. We just need to take a poll as to what percentage of the die hard fans on this site will lose their lunch if the 2011 Red Sox break camp with Navarro as the starting SS. If I wanted to root for a team with that caliber of player, I'd root for the Long Island Ducks of the Independent League.

[Yaz Sideburn]

navarro has potential, though he's not one of our best prospects. he's still very raw and it would be disappointing to see him as the regular shortstop given that we aren't the orioles

[Dojji]

I just don't think he's that far off. The guy had a good year in AA and was off to a good start in AAA. No one will mistake him for Troy Tulowitzki, but Paul Janish is hardly too much to ask and that's a pretty good shorstop. He's been better and younger than Janish most of the way through his minor league career.

 

He'd be better off with at least a little more time in the minors but there's no particular reason to be down on the guy going forward and no reason we couldn't use him on at least an emergency basis this coming season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nobody is down on him. They just dont think he should be the starter for 2011, which is absolutely correct

[mvp 78]

As a prospect, I like what he brings to the table. I'll be much more excited for him to be in Boston in 2012. It's just too soon for him.

[Dojji]

Well, what brought this up is that I thought he'd be an acceptable replacement if we needed one should Scutaro and Lowrie can't get the job done because of health. I agree he shouldn't be Plan A next year but you could do a lot worse than him as Plan C.

[jacksonianmarch]

Actually, I think you could do a lot better as a Plan C. He isnt ready. If Scutaro needs surgery and Lowrie gets hit with a ravaging vaginitis, then you could ruin the progression of a fringe prospect. At best, he's a marginal big league infielder with the potential to be a big league starter

[Spudboy]

Actually' date=' I think you could do a lot better as a Plan C. He isnt ready. If Scutaro needs surgery and Lowrie gets hit with a ravaging vaginitis, then you could ruin the progression of a fringe prospect. [b'] At best, he's a marginal big league infielder with the potential to be a big league starter[/b]

 

That pretty well sums up the discussion.

[SCM33]

I really can't believe that members are researching and debating the minor league stats of some nobody. Here's the relevant fact about Navarro. We just need to take a poll as to what percentage of the die hard fans on this site will lose their lunch if the 2011 Red Sox break camp with Navarro as the starting SS. If I wanted to root for a team with that caliber of player' date=' I'd root for the Long Island Ducks of the Independent League.[/quote']

 

Im on board with you. Right now, or next year.....he does not belong.

[a700hitter]

We whine about injuries, but the Twins have been without their All Star closer Joe Nathan for the entire season and without Justin Morneau for half the season. Morneau was hitting .345 with 18 HRs. He was a human wrecking ball when he went down. The Twins were not as stacked with talent as the Sox, so it was a devastating loss. Yet, they won their division and have one less victory than the Yanks and Tampa. The FO went out and obtained two closers-- Capps and Fuentes. We obtained no one.