Red Sox injury updates

[Keeper]

Yep, Pedroia back on the DL. Sox can't catch a break this year. Better luck next season.

[example1]

..and that will get you a 4th place finish usually.

 

Doesn't this team get a little credit for having the record they do? From my view of the standings, they have a better record than Texas and are virtually identical to the Phillies, two very good teams that have not been plagued by the same type of injuries.

 

I'm not making excuses, but they have virtually the same record they have every year at this time. It isn't a World Series caliber team like 2007, but they aren't a horribly disappointing team.

[a700hitter]

i just don't think that it proves anything that the sox would be only 8 games over .500 if you don't count their best stretch of play. they've lost games they should have won and they've won games they should have lost. who cares? we still have one of the best records in baseball and if we hadn't had such an injury plagued year' date=' there's a very good chance that we'd be within 2 or 3 games of a playoff spot right now[/quote']... And if the 3rd base coach didn't cost us 3 wins and if we didn't throw away another 3 or 4 games with poor defense, we'd be right there despite all the injuries. That's the point. Injuries are not the only reason why we will miss the post season.

[a700hitter]

Doesn't this team get a little credit for having the record they do? From my view of the standings, they have a better record than Texas and are virtually identical to the Phillies, two very good teams that have not been plagued by the same type of injuries.

 

I'm not making excuses, but they have virtually the same record they have every year at this time. It isn't a World Series caliber team like 2007, but they aren't a horribly disappointing team.

The point of my posts has been to discuss the reasons for missing the playoffs. I don't limit the reasons to the injuries. If we stay pat and think getting healthy will be enough, that will be a mistake. I don't know what you mean about giving "credit". Does that matter to anyone? The organization wanted post season ticket sales. I don't think they will be patting themselves on the back and giving each other credit for 2010. The fell short of their goal. They are not happy about it. I don't think my giving them credit will make them feel any better.

[TedWilliams101]

Ok, now that Pedroia is back on the DL, can we safely say it's over? There's no chance in hell they make the playoffs. If I had to bet between making the playoffs and an Alien invasion from mars... I'm betting on the aliens...

[Yaz Sideburn]

... And if the 3rd base coach didn't cost us 3 wins and if we didn't throw away another 3 or 4 games with poor defense' date=' we'd be right there despite all the injuries. That's the point. Injuries are not the only reason why we will miss the post season.[/quote']

 

if we miss the playoffs, i'd blame the bullpen more than anything. if we fix that in the offseason we'll be in good shape. beckett and lackey will probably rebound and we won't need to lead the majors in ops if our rotation performs as well as it should

[ORS]

... And if the 3rd base coach didn't cost us 3 wins and if we didn't throw away another 3 or 4 games with poor defense' date=' we'd be right there despite all the injuries. That's the point. Injuries are not the only reason why we will miss the post season.[/quote']

The point that people keep making and you keep conveniently ignoring (for the sake of your rant) is that games won/lost due to blunders tends to wash out. They are outside the norm and happen for and against you. No they aren't the only reasons, but if you take the reasonable position, like others have, that there are other games the Sox have won for similar mistakes by their opponents, the big deficiency you are left with is the injuries. Sure, you remember when they screwed up, and it's because you are upset because you, rightly, think they should have won. However, you seem to have no recognition of games they've been gifted in your accounting.

[Yaz Sideburn]

Ok' date=' now that Pedroia is back on the DL, can we safely say it's over? There's no chance in hell they make the playoffs. If I had to bet between making the playoffs and an Alien invasion from mars... I'm betting on the aliens...[/quote']

 

we still don't have a very good chance of making the playoffs, and we haven't for a while. but it's not over, there's still 1/4 of the season to go and we still face the yankees and the rays 6+ times each

[example1]

The point of my posts has been to discuss the reasons for missing the playoffs. I don't limit the reasons to the injuries. If we stay pat and think getting healthy will be enough' date=' that will be a mistake. I don't know what you mean about giving "credit". Does that matter to anyone? The organization wanted post season ticket sales. I don't think they will be patting themselves on the back and giving each other credit for 2010. The fell short of their goal. They are not happy about it. I don't think my giving them credit will make them feel any better.[/quote']

 

First of all, they don't have the ability to stay pat. Beltre, V-Mart and Ortiz will all require some form of expenditure if they are going to stick around, and I don't see the Sox investing the "cap space" they've worked toward (for lack of a better term) to overpay on any of the 3. They have open roster spots and important positions to fill moving forward.

 

As far as giving "credit" and whether that matters or not, I think it does. If the team is evaluated purely on wins-losses then there is no way of assessing whether the measures/metrics/formulas they used to construct this team were accurate. They have to be able to realistically evaluate the philosophy behind the moves they made last year. Every season they construct their team based on their predetermined formulas and calculations about whether their team has enough defense, pitching and offense to compete. I give their framework credit for being more right than a lot of people here thought it would be and would not expect or demand that they significantly change their approach this off-season based on the lack of a playoff appearance this year. It isn't about patting themselves on the back or getting some meaningless praise from you, it is more about being realistic about their plan as it was laid out and the problems they encountered in its execution.

 

I agree that their team, as constructed before the season, wouldn't have been world series caliber. However, without the injuries they would have been a lot closer and that may have justified a more aggressive attempt to shore up the areas of weakness. Is it worth dropping Doubront and Navarro for another potential setup man? Maybe if the team is healthy, definitely not if they are 7 games out due to injuries.

 

You better believe that they're going to use a similar formula to determine who they should re-sign, who they will pursue, and how much they are willing to give players like Werth and Crawford who definitely HAVE value on the field, but whose value is largely based on how much they cost. It's frustrating to many that they don't throw all that stuff out the window, but that's how they run their team and how they assure fans of being competitive each and every year.

[a700hitter]

So let me get this straight. They weren't good against good teams, and they weren't good against bad teams... then what does that make the NL? You're clearly contradicting yourself here. No matter how well they played, it was never good enough for you. You even criticized Youk as "not living up to his potential" when he had a 1.000 OPS. You were ready to give up on the team back in the first week of April.

 

In the month of May, the Red Sox were 18-11, .620 winning percentage.

In the month of June, the Red Sox were 18-9, a .677 winning percentage.

June 25th through June 27th, the Red Sox lost Pedroia, Buchholz and VMart. Losing a legitimate ace, and two players who are top 3 at their position was what made the difference. It had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of this team-- it fought through games it should have lost, and managed to make do with a makeshift lineup all season.

LOL! I don't know what point you are trying to make about bringing up a post about Youk in April. How is that relavant to this discussion? Plus, I hadn't given up on this team in April. I didn't give up (most) hope until Youk got injured. I was concerned early in the season that they were digging such a big hole that they might not recover. Yes, that was my concern. They turned things around and closed the gap by the end of May. I never pulled the plug on this team in April. Others did, but I wasn't one of them. I was concerned and baffled about the way they were playing. I'll grant you that. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with you post.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yep' date=' Pedroia back on the DL. Sox can't catch a break this year. Better luck next season.[/quote']

 

You're probably talking about Pedroia being out for a month and maybe the entire season. The sox shouldnt f*** with this. There is no point

[Yaz Sideburn]

You're probably talking about Pedroia being out for a month and maybe the entire season. The sox shouldnt f*** with this. There is no point

 

is this like when you said ranaudo wasn't going to sign based on a source you couldn't name? i don't see anything indicating that he'll be out for more than 2 weeks

[ORS]

I think his point is that this season doesn't look like it offers enough potential to take a risk of long-term injury, and I think he's right.

[jacksonianmarch]

I highly doubt they bring him back unless he is feeling ZERO soreness.

 

Also, pain enough to put him on the DL is no good. They really are being twofaced when they say they are putting him on the DL but no further damage could have been done. If the bone is hurting, then you could be doing damage to it, especially when that bone has a tenuous blood supply

[Yaz Sideburn]

I think his point is that this season doesn't look like it offers enough potential to take a risk of long-term injury' date=' and I think he's right.[/quote']

 

i think that's why they put him on the 15-day dl. if he gets the extra 2 weeks rest, i don't think there's much potential for long-term injury

[jacksonianmarch]

I think his point is that this season doesn't look like it offers enough potential to take a risk of long-term injury' date=' and I think he's right.[/quote']

 

That was my initial point, yes

[Yaz Sideburn]

That was my initial point' date=' yes[/quote']

 

if your point was that the sox shouldn't risk bringing him back because they aren't going anywhere this season, then why'd you suggest it could take 4 weeks for him to come back?

[a700hitter]

if we miss the playoffs' date=' i'd blame the bullpen more than anything. if we fix that in the offseason we'll be in good shape. beckett and lackey will probably rebound and we won't need to lead the majors in ops if our rotation performs as well as it should[/quote']Agreed. The bullpen gets a big part of the blame separate and apart from the injury problems.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Yep' date=' Pedroia back on the DL. Sox can't catch a break this year. Better luck next season.[/quote']

 

No but Ellsbury sure did.

[jacksonianmarch]

if your point was that the sox shouldn't risk bringing him back because they aren't going anywhere this season' date=' then why'd you suggest it could take 4 weeks for him to come back?[/quote']

 

It's not worth bringing him back before he is completely ready. If he can play 100% in 4 weeks, then why not?

[a700hitter]

The point that people keep making and you keep conveniently ignoring (for the sake of your rant) is that games won/lost due to blunders tends to wash out. They are outside the norm and happen for and against you. No they aren't the only reasons' date=' but if you take the reasonable position, like others have, that there are other games the Sox have won for similar mistakes by their opponents, the big deficiency you are left with is the injuries. Sure, you remember when they screwed up, and it's because you are upset because you, rightly, think they should have won. However, you seem to have no recognition of games they've been gifted in your accounting.[/quote']Wow, we have been having a fairly civilized discussion here even though there is some disagreement. I take the blame for a lot of the disagreement, because I framed my opinion in an inaccurate manner by using the term "very good team" instead of "playoff team". You enter the discussion with this:

 

you keep conveniently ignoring (for the sake of your rant)

 

 

Somehow, you don't see this as being argumentative or confrontational. Well, it is.

 

Anyway, I'm not avoiding anything. First of all, I am not limiting the discussion to games given away by errors and blunders. Many of those sloppy losses to which I am referring were due to the bullpen. That had nothing to do with injuries. Our bullpen has almost double the amount of blown saves as the Yanks and Tampa. That's the difference between being a playoff team and an also ran.

 

As for the errors and blunders, they do tend to even out, but they never even out exactly. In a close race, being on the negative side of the ledger in one of these categories can make the difference. This year I think we are on the negative side of the ledger due to our 3rd base coach who has cost the team a few wins. I don't think the Yanks or the Rays have lost as many games due to their 3rd base coaching this season. I don't think has evened out. Peace brother.

[ORS]

Jesus, are you sensitive.

 

Anyway, you ignored the point after it had been made by several posters. It took drawing attention to that ommission to get you to say something on the matter. Apparently, getting you to engage the debate is being confrontational. That's a new one.

[jacksonianmarch]

You know the ironic thing about this season? Wakefield's been pretty healthy...

[a700hitter]

Jesus, are you sensitive.

 

Anyway, you ignored the point after it had been made by several posters. It took drawing attention to that ommission to get you to say something on the matter. Apparently, getting you to engage the debate is being confrontational. That's a new one.

I wasn't addressing it, because I was lumping in all non-injury related losses and those (like the bullpen) don't even out. Also, our defense has been disappointing. I don't see that as evening out either. Our defense was supposed to get better, but it has been below average in the runs saved and other categories

[Yaz Sideburn]

carlos delgado is back with pawtucket and will begin playing again in about a week. i hope he gets healthy because lowell couldn't possibly be hitting any worse

[YAZMAN]

You know the ironic thing about this season? Wakefield's been pretty healthy...

 

You have more irony than a Chinese laundromat.

[boston22407]

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/this-just-in/2134609/francona-i-think-pedroia-will-be-back

[a700hitter]

A funny line from Nick Cafardo's column today:

 

There also is no word on Dustin Pedroia, who is getting opinions from every doctor short of Dr. J and Dr. Kevorkian.

 

Are the wusses like Ellsbury and Drew turning the little fire plug into a hypochondriac?

[a700hitter]

First Cafardo, now this from Peter Abraham:

 

With all due respect to Dustin Pedroia's well-chronicled desire, taking grounders on his knees looks pretty silly now that, two months later, his broken left foot still hasn't healed. I'm sorry I bought into it at the time.

 

Pedroia is taking some shots in the press.

[Yaz Sideburn]

First Cafardo, now this from Peter Abraham:

 

 

 

Pedroia is taking some shots in the press.

 

pete abraham is a d-bag