The Ortiz Dilemma

[yeszir]

It's pretty apparent that Francona wants to stick with Ortiz early this season so he doesn't kill his confidence, but after his ofer last night it looks like we're in for the same old Ortiz we saw early last year.

 

I know it's only been 2 games, but how long before he's no longer a permanent fixture in the lineup? At least against lefties.

[BoSox21]

I think it's premature to start discussing this, personally.

[VA Sox Fan]

I think it's premature to start discussing this' date=' personally.[/quote']

 

Agree.

[TedWilliams101]

We have a strong pitching core, so we could go ahead and use our pitching talent in a trade, you know, for say... Adrian Gonzalez ::ducks::

[yeszir]

I think it's premature to start discussing this' date=' personally.[/quote']

 

When's a good time to start then. I love Ortiz as much as the next guy, but if Francona just sits around waiting for him to snap out of it, the team is going to lose baseball games that they might have been able to win. It's depressing to see Ortiz weekly hit into the shift day after day.

[italstallianion]

I'd wait at least a week before comparing Ortiz's start this year to his start last year. At least wait for them to face worse pitching.

[BoSox21]

When's a good time to start then. I love Ortiz as much as the next guy' date=' but if Francona just sits around waiting for him to snap out of it, the team is going to lose baseball games that they might have been able to win. It's depressing to see Ortiz weekly hit into the shift day after day.[/quote']

 

For starters, I'd be shocked if Lowell wasn't in there as the DH tonight against Pettitte but in terms of a full-time platoon, I'd give it two weeks or so of offensive ineptitude.

[yeszir]

For starters' date=' I'd be shocked if Lowell wasn't in there as the DH tonight against Pettitte but in terms of a full-time platoon, I'd give it two weeks or so of offensive ineptitude.[/quote']

 

Ortiz and Lowell hit Pettitte pretty much the same, so I won't be shocked if and when Ortiz gets the start.

 

""(Expletive) happens. Then you guys talk (expletive). Two (expletive) games already. You (expletives) going crazy. What's up with that, man? (Expletive). There's 160 games left. Ain't that a (expletive)."

[italstallianion]

Ortiz and Lowell hit Pettitte pretty much the same, so I won't be shocked if and when Ortiz gets the start.

 

""(Expletive) happens. Then you guys talk (expletive). Two (expletive) games already. You (expletives) going crazy. What's up with that, man? (Expletive). There's 160 games left. Ain't that a (expletive)."

 

 

Did you quote my post or something?? Haha, maybe we should bench JD Drew against the lefty instead of Ortiz. J/K

[VA Sox Fan]

Don't expect Ortiz to be benched

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff April 7, 2010 01:14 AM

 

David Ortiz is 0 for 7 this season with a walk and has gotten the ball out of the infield once — a pop-up to center. To say he hasn't looked good is being charitable.

 

With the Yankees throwing Andy Pettitte on Wednesday, many folks (including rabble-rousing members of the media) might be expecting Terry Francona to sit Ortiz and use Mike Lowell as the DH against the lefty.

 

Not so fast.

 

Ortiz against Pettitte: 18 of 49, 7 extra-base hits, 7 walks. .367/.431/.551

 

Lowell against Pettitte: 10 of 29, 1 extra-base hit, 5 walks, .345/.429/.379

 

Ortiz has performed better against Pettitte and has 20 more at-bats. As batter/pitcher sample sizes go, that's a significant number. It would be hard for Francona to see those numbers and tell Ortiz to take a seat.

 

Beyond that, it sends a bad message. Ortiz doesn't need a rest on April 7, so replacing him in the lineup is benching him. Telling your veteran No. 5 hitter you don't have confidence in him on April 7 is not the usual path for a manager.

 

The Red Sox have scored 13 runs on 21 hits over their first 17 innings this season. Ortiz hasn't aided the cause, but its not like he's holding them back.

 

If Ortiz isn't hitting and it's Memorial Day weekend, then those who want him benched will have a case. But he has earned the right to get a couple of months to prove he can still hit. Until then, it's a lot of noise that I suspect Francona will not listen to.

 

Or as the Ortiz so eloquently expressed it after the game on Tuesday: "(Expletive) happens. Then you guys talk (expletive). Two (expletive) games already. You (expletives) going crazy. What's up with that, man? (Expletive). There's 160 games left. Ain't that a (expletive)."

[rhet]

Can someone please start mixing some roid shakes for him?

[italstallianion]

Can someone please start mixing some roid shakes for him?

 

 

 

I think that taking the steroids directly into his veins would be more productive than diluting them in the form of a shake. If he's going to cheat, he might as well do it the way it was intended.

[rhet]

I think that taking the steroids directly into his veins would be more productive than diluting them in the form of a shake. If he's going to cheat' date=' he might as well do it the way it was intended. [/quote']

 

It's only cheating if you get caught.

[BoSox21]

Ortiz against Pettitte: 18 of 49, 7 extra-base hits, 7 walks. .367/.431/.551

 

Lowell against Pettitte: 10 of 29, 1 extra-base hit, 5 walks, .345/.429/.379

 

Ortiz has performed better against Pettitte and has 20 more at-bats. As batter/pitcher sample sizes go, that's a significant number. It would be hard for Francona to see those numbers and tell Ortiz to take a seat.

 

That's all well and good but the Ortiz of today is a long ways away from the Ortiz of a few years ago when the majority of those ABs took place.

[VA Sox Fan]

I would love to see Lowell DH any time.

[TheMino007]

Too early to worry about it, but it certainly isn't the start to the year I wanted to see. At least we have Lowell for this very reason. Give Ortiz a couple weeks, but he can't out of the slump he needs to sit. Francona can't stick with him for as long as he did last season.

[Eck20and8]

Wouldn't surprise me if Ortiz picked up later in the season when Youk slows down.

[italstallianion]

Let's just hope that Ortiz doesn't slump for 2 months before he starts picking it up, or that he will eventually pick it up at all.

[Dojji]

Two games.

[yeszir]

Wouldn't surprise me if Ortiz picked up later in the season when Youk slows down.

 

Blasphemy!

[BigPapiEnFuego]

from Alex Speier on twitter: Francona tells WEEI that Ortiz will start vs Pettitte. 'We want guys to go up there and feel fearless and not look over their shoulders'

 

Francona needs to stop this ********. Really. Think about the overall performance of the team instead of how one guy feels.

[BoSox21]

Francona needs to stop this ********. Really. Think about the overall performance of the team instead of how one guy feels.

 

Like it or not, the way this one guy feels affects the overall performance of the team.

 

The fact that people are freaking out after 8 ABs is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a long time.

[italstallianion]

Like it or not, the way this one guy feels affects the overall performance of the team.

 

The fact that people are freaking out after 8 ABs is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in a long time.

 

 

 

Especially Ortiz, who most of us have been expecting to be bad at the start of the season. If Youkilis, Martinez, Pedroia etc were floundering at the start of the season, then it'd be more of a concern. I personally expected this to happen (although I don't expect it to last 2 months), so I don't think it's such a big deal. Especially when we're not playing the best team in baseball.

[VA Sox Fan]

Wait a while before judging Ortiz

 

Posted by Peter Abraham, Globe Staff April 7, 2010 10:39 AM

 

David Ortiz had 541 at-bats last season. So those suggesting he should be executed at dawn based on seven at-bats are taking into account 1.29 percent of the season.

 

That would be like getting a new job and getting fired at 9:01 a.m. because your tie was crooked.

 

Ortiz from June 11 to Oct. 4 last season: .264/.356/.549 with 25 homers and 75 RBI. That was 61.7 percent of his season and that was post whatever PEDs he may or may not have done. It wasn't vintage Ortiz, but it was better production than a lot of American League teams were getting out of their DHs.

 

The guy may well be finished, I'm not here to argue that. But nobody can decide that on April 6 after two games against CC Sabathia and A.J. Burnett. A baseball season is a movie made up of 162 scenes. You have to watch a while before you decide if you like it.

 

But Ortiz didn't help matters last night by cursing out the writers. That makes him look scared and worried about where he's going to play next season. A struggling player only compounds the issue when he joins the fray instead of staying above it.

 

If Ortiz is in the lineup tonight, the reaction to his first at-bat is going to be interesting.

 

UPDATE, 12:08 p.m.: Terry Francona just said on WEEI that Ortiz would be starting tonight.

 

"We're two games into the season," he said. "We want these guys to go up there and feel fearless, not looking over their shoulders."

[yankees228]

If he continues to struggle, Francona also might want to consider swapping him and Drew.

[Keeper]

Adrian Gonzalez or Adam Dunn please.

[rhet]

If he continues to struggle' date=' Francona also might want to consider swapping him and Drew.[/quote']

 

Yeah, swap em both for a couple of PTBN.

[Jasonbay44]

Im not going to lie, I am worried about Ortiz, but then again its only been two games and in one of them he was facing an elite left handed pitcher.

[silky kitten]

Oh My god, Mark Teixiera is 0-9 on the season, Yankees better trade or bench him asap!!

[BoSox21]

Beckett and Lester both s*** the bed to start the season last year and both of their starts were iffy at best. Where's the freakout for them?