Greatest shortstop of all time?

[Tyler Durden]

Derek Jeter isn't even in the top 10.

 

Are you kidding me? Honus Wagner is in a class of his own, but Jeter is clearly Top 5, and could make an argument he's #2, considering guys like A-Rod and Banks spent a majority of their careers away from shortstop.

[DirtDog331724632256]

The best shortstop of all-time to me is Ozzy "The Wizard" Smith.

 

I dont want to take any credit away from jeter though, he is a great ball player

[Chamomile]

It's a tough call, but I'd have to say Derek Jeter. Not only is he incredibly consistent at the plate, but he is full of defensive talent. Man is that guy fun to watch.

 

What do you all think? Have fun in this thread, guys.

 

99% of knowledgeable baseball fans would say that Honus Wagner is the best shortstop of all-time.

[DirtDog331724632256]

99% of knowledgeable baseball fans would say that Honus Wagner is the best shortstop of all-time.

 

im pretty sure 99% of fans that say that never saw him make a play in real life, its all stories from the past

[Chamomile]

God awful is an overstatement. He is average and has been above average at various times in his career. Yes, Jeter is one of the greatest shortstops of all time. Longevity, consistency, production. Closing in on 3,000 hits. Easily in the Top 10.

 

But I'll take Julio Lugo over him any day of the week.

 

His career UZR is -40.6. I think saying that he is godawful is putting it lightly.

[Chamomile]

im pretty sure 99% of fans that say that never saw him make a play in real life' date=' its all stories from the past[/quote']

 

Anyone who's ever looked at Wagner's stats could easily tell that he was better. Wagner was a .328/.391/.467 hitter in the dead ball era who was a spectacular defensive player. Jeter's a .317/.388/.459 hitter in the steroid era who's well below average defensively. Someone would have a much stronger point if they were trying to claim that Manny Ramirez is a better player than Ty Cobb.

[Keeper]

His career UZR is -40.6. I think saying that he is godawful is putting it lightly.

 

 

Dutchy/Imperial, you are blinded by your homerism. Nuff said.

 

And I'm sorry, but it's downright stupid to compare stat lines from this era to the Middle Ages of baseball.

[26 to 6]

Let's see...it's tough to compare players in different eras.

 

Top four would be in my opinion:

 

Jeter, Ripken, Wagner, Ozzie Smith...kind of a pick'em.

I agree 100% with those 4. Being a huge Wizard fan all my life (still my favorite player of all time), of course being a huge Jeter fan, and appreciating Wagner's ability it's hard to choose just one. Same can be said for Ripken and all his accomplishments, bit being that he came up and retired as a 3B it's a little bit easier for me to look past him, but without question these 4, in no particular order, are #1, 1A, 1B, and 1C.

 

Derek Jeter isn't even in the top 10.

LOL ok....so I guess that would put Nomar in the top 5?

[yankees228]

I've got a hard time including Ozzie Smith in this discussion, because as good as he was defensively, he was actually a detriment to his club offensively (career 87 OPS+).

 

Also, while I agree with Keeper that you can't just take a pure slash line and use it for cross-generation comparisons, there are stats (that grade you relative to your peers), such as OPS+, that are pretty good for those things.

 

Thing is, it's hard to bring defense into the comparison when we have no idea how good guys like Wagner were defensively. Using what we know, I'd say Wagner is the clear number one, with Arky Vaughan, Derek Jeter, and Bobby Doerr following in some order.

 

EDIT: Actually, probably in that order.

 

EDIT 2: And that's not including players like A-Rod and Ernie Banks who spent significant time at other positions.

[rhet]

Let's not leave Arky Vaughn or Lou Broudreau out of the conversation.

 

But today, it's Nomar Day, so let's give him a shout out here as well.

[Divinity]

Top 3 IMO

 

 

1.) Honus Wager : .329 Batting Average, 3430 Hits, 101 Home Runs, 722 SB

 

2.) Cal Ripken Jr : .276 Batting Average, 3184 Hits, 431 Home Runs, 1695 RB

 

3.) Derek Jeter : .316 Batting Average, 2767 Hits, 227 Home Runs, 1077 RB

[yankees228]

Considering how Ripken really tailed off in the second half of his career, I don't think he's in the conversation.

[SoxSport]

Honus Wagner, no doubt.

[ORS]

Are you kidding me? Honus Wagner is in a class of his own' date=' but Jeter is clearly Top 5, and could make an argument he's #2, considering guys like A-Rod and Banks spent a majority of their careers away from shortstop.[/quote']

The only reason Alex Rodriguez, who is a superior SS, is playing at 3B is to allow Jeter to continue playing SS. He's there by default, not because he can't play the position. He's in the conversation.

[Northern Star]

The only reason Alex Rodriguez' date=' who is a superior SS, is playing at 3B is to allow Jeter to continue playing SS. He's there by default, not because he can't play the position. He's in the conversation.[/quote']

 

Wagner and A-Rod are probably the only two on the real short list. Jeter doesn't deserve top 5 mention because of his atrocious defense. Great hitter, though.

[MDF3530]

Defensively, I'd have go with two Ozzies (Smith and Guillen).

 

For the record, when I'm picking my greats, I only go by players I've seen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Vizquel fielded circles around Guillen.

[Northern Star]

Vizquel is in the conversation, definitely.