Hughes wins 5th starter slot, Joba to the pen

[jacksonianmarch]

Per ESPN radio, Phil Hughes has won the 5th starter slot.

 

Well, let this end all speculation assuming this story is true. Joba slots back into the set-up role where he was dominant in 2007 and showed a lot of promise last yr after being moved back there for the playoffs. Not sure if this was planned all along or if the poor spring by Joba tipped their hand, but this is kinda expected but kinda crappy at the same time.

 

Hughes is better suited to be a starter. He essentially had been a started his whole life until last yr when he found his way into the pen and played a vital role. But in that role, we got to see him master a few different types of fastball as well as improve his curveball. This spring, he has shown a good changeup and essentially showed enough to win the job.

 

Joba, who probably could have been an elite setup man from day 1 or a solid starter if he wasnt monkeyed around with, showed that he could dominate at both jobs until a shoulder injury in 2008 seemed to change him a bit. He started games off poorly with minimal velocity, seemingly saving it for later. This approach typically led to early deficits. But after being converted back to relief for the playoffs, he showed that hard fastball that he has become known for. Assuming he can sit in the high 90s again with that power slider, he seems to be destined for the closer's role after Mo leaves assuming he stays healthy.

 

But the question will always be, what could have been? Joba, who was a horse as a starter in his lone minor league season, should have been an elite level starter. The presumption is that his ever changing roles led to the injury which seemed to lead to a more timid approach out of the starting 5. Maybe, just maybe, if he wasnt rushed and wasnt monkeyed around with, we'd be talking about a power pitching rising ace instead of a setup man with eyes toward the closers role.

 

Regardless, Hughes projects to throw somewhere in the 150IP range this yr barring injury or ineffectiveness and will probably get his starts skipped in the middle of the yr a la Joba. We'll see if he handles it with more poise.

[a700hitter]

Joba going back to setup could revive his career. He was dominant in that role.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was, there is no doubt. I thought he could come through as a starter, though. He showed flashes of sheer dominance, mixed in with s***** outings reflecting his age and his experience level

[Dojji]

Crap, they got it right.

[yankees228]

This is probably the right move in the long term, but while I'm not surprised in the least, I'm quite disappointed.

 

As Jacko mentioned, Joba has shown flashes as a starter, and all the talk in September of last year was that he was going to finally get the opportunity to pitch without any rules in 2010. I think he deserved that chance, and it's too bad that he probably will never get it, at least not with the Yankees.

[Keeper]

Stick a fork in the pipe dream of Joba one day becoming a starter. He was dominant as a reliever. Probably the right move. But we'll never really know. The Yankees didn't do him any favors in terms of his development.

[Dipre]

Yanks got it right.

[italstallianion]

I've been saying this for a while. I think the Yanks made the absolute right call here. My Yankee friends at home can take it to the bank.

[Gom]

This was a mistake if you ask me.

 

You could have stretched out Hughes this year, like they did with Joba.

 

You could have let Andy retire at the end of this year, let Vasquez go, and gone after Lee.

 

Your rotation next year would be CC, Lee, AJ, Joba, and Hughes. Hello World Championship run of the 1990s.

 

Are you saying that after all this guy has pitched, you were going to let a month of f***ing spring training decide it? Mistake if you ask me.

[yankees228]

This was a mistake if you ask me.

 

You could have stretched out Hughes this year, like they did with Joba.

 

You could have let Andy retire at the end of this year, let Vasquez go, and gone after Lee.

 

Your rotation next year would be CC, Lee, AJ, Joba, and Hughes. Hello World Championship run of the 1990s.

 

Are you saying that after all this guy has pitched, you were going to let a month of f***ing spring training decide it? Mistake if you ask me.

 

I think it's very unlikely that the Spring Training results are a huge influence here. They just likely feel that, going forward, Joba is more suited for the bullpen, and they might as well make the switch now.

[Gom]

I think it's very unlikely that the Spring Training results are a huge influence here. They just likely feel that' date=' going forward, Joba is more suited for the bullpen, and they might as well make the switch now.[/quote']

 

Well...you really can't debate that point if that is what they believe. However, I figure they at least owed him a shot at this, after jerking him around last season.

[BoSox21]

Isn't it a relative wash though?

 

Hughes: Sucked as a starter, thrived in the pen.

 

Joba: Thrived in the pen, sucked as a starter.

[yankees228]

Well...you really can't debate that point if that is what they believe. However' date=' I figure they at least owed him a shot at this, after jerking him around last season.[/quote']

 

Yup, I agree.

[26 to 6]

This is probably the right move in the long term, but while I'm not surprised in the least, I'm quite disappointed.

 

As Jacko mentioned, Joba has shown flashes as a starter, and all the talk in September of last year was that he was going to finally get the opportunity to pitch without any rules in 2010. I think he deserved that chance, and it's too bad that he probably will never get it, at least not with the Yankees.

Agreed completely.

[jacksonianmarch]

Isn't it a relative wash though?

 

Hughes: Sucked as a starter, thrived in the pen.

 

Joba: Thrived in the pen, sucked as a starter.

 

Lester sucked too as a starter initially, look at him now. Both of these guys, IMO, could be top notch starters, but in NY, you have to hit the ground running. Nothing is given to you and we couldnt wait for 2 young, undeveloped pitchers to go through their growing pain. We learned that lesson in 2008.

 

BTW, speaking of players from that time, Kennedy looks really f***ing good thus far in Arizona.

[Dipre]

Lester sucked too as a starter initially, look at him now. Both of these guys, IMO, could be top notch starters, but in NY, you have to hit the ground running. Nothing is given to you and we couldnt wait for 2 young, undeveloped pitchers to go through their growing pain. We learned that lesson in 2008.

 

BTW, speaking of players from that time, Kennedy looks really f***ing good thus far in Arizona.

 

So has Tug Hulett.

 

Point?

 

It's ST. If he's looking that f***ing good in July, then you have a point.

[jacksonianmarch]

Agreed, of course its spring training. But we'll see how good he can do in the desert. My guess is that he'll be better than half of the pitchers in the NL West this season.

[Gom]

Dude, we haven't developed a bona fide starter since Pettitte.

 

Here we go with the ******** innings limits again. The f***ing Hughes rules....great.

[diony]

Joba going back to setup could revive his career. He was dominant in that role.

 

24 year old pitcher reviving his career. :dunno:

[Keeper]

24 year old pitcher reviving his career. :dunno:

 

Was Joba largely irrelevant last season or not? Call it a revival or a bounce-back season, but he desperately needs one or the other, especially in New York. Not exactly the most patient FO or fanbase in the world.

[BoSox21]

I'd call it more a chance for Joba to re-establish his status as one of the best young pitchers in baseball. Reviving a career is when the feeling is that he's a bust but gets an opportunity to contribute to a team. I wouldn't say the Yankees have given up hope with Joba by a long shot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Dude, we haven't developed a bona fide starter since Pettitte.

 

Here we go with the ******** innings limits again. The f***ing Hughes rules....great.

 

So Wang wasn't bona Fide?

[TheMino007]

I would have just kept both Hughes and Joba in the pen, Hughes, Joba, Mo 7-8-9 is pretty damn good. you can find 5th starters anywhere.

[riverside sluggers]

So has Tug Hulett.

 

Point?

 

It's ST. If he's looking that f***ing good in July, then you have a point.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

The Sox after today have 10 exhibition games left before opening the season against the Yankees on April 4 at Fenway Park. The Bombers, for what it's worth, are 8-11 this spring and been outscored by 28 runs.

[Dipre]

I would have just kept both Hughes and Joba in the pen' date=' Hughes, Joba, Mo 7-8-9 is pretty damn good. you can find 5th starters anywhere.[/quote']

 

Hughes' upside in the rotation is not that of a fifth starter. This is not a move for now, but for the future, because if they don't slot him in the fifth spot this year, then it becomes more difficult to slot him as a starter for the future.

[Gom]

So Wang wasn't bona Fide?

 

A free agent? No.

 

When I say develop, I mean draft and train. Who was the last pitcher we drafted and became a bona fide starter? As of today...no one in nearly 15 years.

[Dipre]

A free agent? No.

 

When I say develop, I mean draft and train. Who was the last pitcher we drafted and became a bona fide starter? As of today...no one in nearly 15 years.

 

Chien Ming Wang was developed by the NYY organization.

 

By your theory, Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes weren't "developed" by their respective organizations.

[yankees228]

Chien Ming Wang was developed by the NYY organization.

 

By your theory, Hanley Ramirez and Jose Reyes weren't "developed" by their respective organizations.

 

It all depends what Gom's point is. If his point focuses on the Yankees' drafting abilities, then it might have some merit. However, as you pointed out, if his point focuses on the Yankees' developmental abilities, then he's wrong.

[italstallianion]

A free agent? No.

 

When I say develop, I mean draft and train. Who was the last pitcher we drafted and became a bona fide starter? As of today...no one in nearly 15 years.

 

 

For the record, just because IFA (or International Free Agent) has the phrase "Free Agent" in it, does not mean that the players have come to the team and reached the same development as your typical Free Agents would. For example, it's one thing to not consider Javier Vasquez or CC Sabathia homegrown talent, but it's another to not consider Chien Ming Wang, Junichi Tazawa, Alfredo Aceves, or Jesus Montero homegrown.

 

 

In other words, homegrown does not equal draft. Drafting is a part of homegrown talent, but IFA's are another aspect, so don't be fooled just because International Free Agent includes the words, "Free Agent".

[italstallianion]

It all depends what Gom's point is. If his point focuses on the Yankees' drafting abilities' date=' then it might have some merit. However, as you pointed out, if his point focuses on the Yankees' developmental abilities, then he's wrong.[/quote']

 

 

It's the difference between "drafting" and "homegrown". I think that Gom is right about "drafting", but wrong about "homegrown".