Predicting the 2010 Standings

[Dipre]

This is just stupid. Somehow, he needs to meet your definition of a "difference-maker." A difference maker, by definition, makes a difference. Adding a guy who can throw 200IP, K 200+ guys and an ERA of 4.5 to a rotation that had a rotating roation spot which averaged less than 5IP and had an ERA over 6 makes a difference.

 

In terms of which rotation I would take, all healthy and all living up to their career norms, I call it a wash. 1 goes to NY. 4 goes to NY. 2 and 3 go to Boston. But you also have the caveat that Buchholz is entering his first full season as a starter and Beckett has been hurt entering the playoffs two seasons in a row. The entire point is that he gives innings, gives power AND is durable. You can say that about 3 guys definitely in the Yankee rotation with a guy who is getting toward dependable in Burnett since he's been healthy 2 yrs in a row. While you have Beckett and Lackey who have been injured at times over the past 2 yrs, then Buchholz who is unpredictable and a frequently injured DiceK and you see the point here.

 

Lol.

 

 

Way to dance around the point.

 

A wash. Sure.

 

Sabby> Lester

Beckett>Burnett

Lackey>Pettite

Bcuholz= Vasquez.

 

Obviously a wash.

 

A 4.50 ERA, by the way, even with the K's (which are completely irrelevant) and the 200+ IP (which are not a given, and even if they are, they're not as humongously relevant as you're making it out to be either) is not very good. It's really that simple.

 

When talking about a difference maker in a team-to-team comparison, you need the guy who you're certain can positively impact your team in a head-to-head matchup. Reading and context comprehension are a ncessity.

[Lester82]

But you also have the caveat that Buchholz is entering his first full season as a starter

 

You also have the caveat that Joba still has proven nothing as a starter. They were talking on WFAN in NYC yesterday about how much the Yankees have screwed up that kid's transition to starting pitcher.

[Lester82]

And I think Joba is important because I'm expecting a sizable dropoff from oldman Pettitte in 2010. Sorry, last year will take a toll on him. Vazquez and/or Joba will be key for the Yanks this year.

[Dipre]

And I think Joba is important because I'm expecting a sizable dropoff from oldman Pettitte in 2010. Sorry' date=' last year will take a toll on him. Vazquez and/or Joba will be key for the Yanks this year.[/quote']

 

Are you crazy?

 

Petitte will see no age-related dropoff.

 

Vasquez will come to the AL and be even better than he was with the White Sox.

 

Joba will finally turn the corner.

 

End of discussion.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol.

 

 

Way to dance around the point.

 

A wash. Sure.

 

Sabby> Lester

Beckett>Burnett

Lackey>Pettite

Bcuholz= Vasquez.

 

Obviously a wash.

 

A 4.50 ERA, by the way, even with the K's (which are completely irrelevant) and the 200+ IP (which are not a given, and even if they are, they're not as humongously relevant as you're making it out to be either) is not very good. It's really that simple.

 

When talking about a difference maker in a team-to-team comparison, you need the guy who you're certain can positively impact your team in a head-to-head matchup. Reading and context comprehension are a ncessity.

 

Wait, did you really just say that Buchholz is equal to Vazquez? That is just not debatable at this juncture. If you really are going to sit there and try to make that point, then there is no debating with you. You're just retarded

[Dipre]

Wait' date=' did you really just say that Buchholz is equal to Vazquez? That is just not debatable at this juncture. If you really are going to sit there and try to make that point, then there is no debating with you. You're just retarded[/quote']

 

Did i?

 

I said in a head to head matchup, the potential results of a start by those two would probably yield similar results.

 

But you apparently think Vasquez is the second coming of Nolan Ryan.

 

Hint: He's not.

[jacksonianmarch]

In a head to head matcup with Ny possessing the better offense? See this is just garbage

[Dojji]

But that has jack-all to do with the quality of the starters. In fact the fact that you're making that excuse for the quality of your SP's tell us that you know that they're inferior and you have to throw in the other stuff to make up for it.

[riverside sluggers]

The Yankees offense I dont think will be as big as what it was this past season. Curtis Granderson will love the left field porch, its just the vs left hander splits stand out.

[Dipre]

But that has jack-all to do with the quality of the starters. In fact the fact that you're making that excuse for the quality of your SP's tell us that you know that they're inferior and you have to throw in the other stuff to make up for it.

 

Exactly.

[italstallianion]

It wouldn't be the first time that Jacko is overcompensating for something.

[Dipre]

It wouldn't be the first time that Jacko is overcompensating for something.

 

And, he's making retarded arguments, but calling me retarded. Personal insults to try and compensate for a lack of a convincing argument.

 

I notice a pattern here.

[Lester82]

then Buchholz who is unpredictable and a frequently injured DiceK and you see the point here.

 

I just had to re-quote that part of Jacko's rant to Dipre, 'cause I can't stop laughing.

 

I mean Buchholz is unpredictable... as opposed to Joba?

 

hahaha

 

And Dice K wasn't really frequently injured for 2 years, but I'd have to acknowledge his recent injury problems like you'd have to acknowledge the potential for dropoff in Andy Dandy.

[Dipre]

I just had to re-quote that part of Jacko's rant to Dipre, 'cause I can't stop laughing.

 

I mean Buchholz is unpredictable... as opposed to Joba?

 

hahaha

 

And Dice K wasn't really frequently injured for 2 years, but I'd have to acknowledge his recent injury problems like you'd have to acknowledge the potential for dropoff in Andy Dandy.

 

And how about Vasquez' consistency in the AL?

 

I also love how he points that a 4.50 ERA equals 6 IP, 3 ER every time out. Last time i checked, neither Vasquez (or anyone else) had a quality start every time out.

[Keeper]

And how about Vasquez' consistency in the AL?

 

I also love how he points that a 4.50 ERA equals 6 IP, 3 ER every time out. Last time i checked, neither Vasquez (or anyone else) had a quality start every time out.

 

Vazquez had the most quality starts this decade, IIRC.

 

I think moving forward Buchholz definitely has more upside than Vazquez, but Buchholz is still an unknown quantity. At this point, I would say Vazquez has to be considered the better pitcher. We will see if this holds up after the season.

[Dipre]

Vazquez had the most quality starts this decade, IIRC.

 

I think moving forward Buchholz definitely has more upside than Vazquez, but Buchholz is still an unknown quantity. At this point, I would say Vazquez has to be considered the better pitcher. We will see if this holds up after the season.

 

Counting stats are usually directly proportional to playing time.

 

Remember, i didn't say outright "Bucholz is the same or better pitcher than Vasquez". I stated (and clarified) that in a head-to-head matchup between both teams those two pitchers starting, they are likely to yield similar results.

 

Bucholz is an unknown quantity, but in the AL East, so is Vasquez, there's really no other way to look at it.

 

It's easy to look at his 2009 and think he'll dominate in '10, but when you put things in context and look at his AL track record (which is pretty significant) you'll see that even though he pitches a lot of innings, he's never been a "very good pitcher" in the AL, and with him being older and going to that launching pad, the outcome does not look pretty.

[Palodios]

I really don't get how you can just discount Javier because he's moving to another team. Last season he was 5th in IP, 6th in ERA, 3rd in WHIP, 2nd in strikeouts, and tied for 4th in wins in the National League. Last year, his VORP was higher than any Red Sox pitcher-- how does that not make him a difference maker?

 

Yes, he'll see some decline because of the league and the stadium, but to think he'll actually fall back to mediocrity after a breakout season? As much as I'd like to see that, I'm skeptical.

[TheMino007]

He's moving back to the AL where he has been nothing more than a mediocre pitcher in the past. He's going to be pitching in baseballs tough division and he'll be making half his starts in Yankee Stadium. That is why his numbers will fall and he won't be the difference maker in the rotation that the Yankees need.

[Palodios]

All of that has been said already. It just seems like no one is willing to entertain the idea that maybe he's become a better pitcher in the last year.

[riverside sluggers]

So he wont see any regression from a career year, posting 2.87 ERA... moving to the AL East and the homer haven that is Yankee Stadium?

[Palodios]

Ofcourse there will be regression. But the general opinion here is that after putting up an ace-like year last year, he's going to be a nobody this year.

[BoSox21]

He won't be a nobody but the expectation is that Buchholz could be a high 3s-low 4s ERA pitcher while my personal expection for Vazquez is a low 4s-mid 4s ERA pitcher.

[Dipre]

All of that has been said already. It just seems like no one is willing to entertain the idea that maybe he's become a better pitcher in the last year.

 

He went to one of the most HR-suppresing ballparks in the Majors, and to the NL. His pitch selection and peripherals remained consistent. There's no indication that he simply became "a better pitcher".

[Dipre]

Ofcourse there will be regression. But the general opinion here is that after putting up an ace-like year last year' date=' he's going to be a nobody this year.[/quote']

 

No one has said he'll "be a nobody", but that he'll probably pitch like Javier Vasquez in the AL, as in, a bunch of IP, a bunch of K's, but he'll also give up a ton of runs.

[Spudboy]

The subject of Vasquez has been covered on Talksox extensively. Ultimately, the proof will be found in the pudding. The Yankees added a quality 4th starter that will help them. That is making a difference.

 

How much of a difference remains to be scene.

[BoSox21]

The Yankees added a quality 4th starter that will help them. That is making a difference.

 

How much of a difference remains to be scene.

 

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well, hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".

[Dipre]

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well' date=' hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".[/quote']

 

Exactly. Besides, if it's a discussion without attacks that helps pass the time 'till opening day, then what's the problem?

 

Jesus Christ.

[Spudboy]

And whether it is appropriate to use an adjective like "quality" to Javier Vazquez remains to be seen as well' date=' hence the debate. Because if they get 2004 Vazquez, then "porous" becomes a more fitting adjective to put in front of "4th starter".[/quote']

 

I stated my opinion. I think anyone that can bring about thirty starts and two hundred innings is probably a quality starter. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

Exactly. Besides, if it's a discussion without attacks that helps pass the time 'till opening day, then what's the problem?

 

Jesus Christ.

 

 

I have no problem. I merely pointed out that everything had been said about the guy already. Much like all the rehashing of Drew's value, etc. . I stated MY OPINION, as is my privilege. You just have to try to make my simple comment into something it's not.

 

Which makes my comment all the more salient. Almost all the time there is a "discussion" involving you, things escalate to an ugly fight.

[italstallianion]

Plus, with the Yankees offense, they don't need 5 quality starters. Sure Javy will get hit around in that stadium, but as long as he puts up near league average numbers then he should accumulate a lot of wins.

[Dipre]

For rules to exist, there have to be exceptions.

 

Javier Vasquez 2006 stats:

 

202 IP, 184 K, 4.84 ERA.

 

Lots of IP, lots of K's, lots of runs.

 

It is what it is.