V-Mart hopes to avoid FA Market

[jacksonianmarch]

Herein lies the problem with signing VMart long term. He isnt gonna catch for long. He's gonna be a half time player at C and will need another position. This will gum up the works for trying to acquire AdGon, who is by all accounts a far superior offensive player.

[riverside sluggers]

I dont think this will block the Sox from getting Gonzalez. They can still sign V-Mart long term and make the trade with San Diego. Also last time I checked, the DH spot going forward after this season is empty

[jacksonianmarch]

True, it is, but do you really want to lock in a guy who will be the DH by then, especially when his bat is good but not great? Papi was the exception to the rule because he was one of the top 3 hitters in the game from 2004-2007.

[Imperial59]

True' date=' it is, but do you really want to lock in a guy who will be the DH by then, especially when his bat is good but not great? Papi was the exception to the rule because he was one of the top 3 hitters in the game from 2004-2007.[/quote']

 

His bat is well above average for a DH and being able to play backup catcher would give him some added versatility. He would have had the 4th best wOBA last year among DH's, right behind Matsui.

[riverside sluggers]

How many teams have entrenched DH's? Most teams use the DH to rotate veteran players. Papi, Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Harold Baines and Jim Thome are only ones I can think of that were great in that role

[a700hitter]

Name how many teams have entrenched DH's? Most teams use the DH to rotate veteran players. Papi' date=' Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Harold Baines and Jim Thome are only ones I can think of that were great in that role[/quote']

Don Baylor

[Keeper]

How many teams have entrenched DH's? Most teams use the DH to rotate veteran players. Papi' date=' Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Harold Baines and Jim Thome are only ones I can think of that were great in that role[/quote']

 

Also Hal McRae, Brian Downing, Chili Davis, and Paul Molitor. (I just saw the Prime 9 )

[a700hitter]

Also Hal McRae' date=' Brian Downing, Chili Davis, and Paul Molitor. (I just saw the Prime 9 )[/quote']McRae and Molitor were top shelf.

[Dojji]

Don Baylor

 

Don Baylor wasn't much of a hitter. Sure, he hit HR's, but he didn't surround that with solid production for most of his career.

[BSN07]

How many teams have entrenched DH's? Most teams use the DH to rotate veteran players. Papi' date=' Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Harold Baines and Jim Thome are only ones I can think of that were great in that role[/quote']

 

If he can manage 90-110 games behind the plate over the span of the contract(which is reasonable IMO), it would give the Sox plenty of games to rotate "veteran players", and not gum up the DH spot at all. Plus is gives the Sox 60+ games for the Sox to break in a young Catcher, or for this season, let Tek have his last hurrah so to speak.

[jacksonianmarch]

Averaging 100 games for a catcher who has had durability issues during his age 29 and 30 seasons who's 31 yrs old? There is a reason why Theo is waiting, he's playing it smart. Theo has always been about paying a player for what he could contribute and not paying for past success. If re-signed right now as a catcher, he's in line for $10-15 mil per season depending on what Mauer gets. If Theo waits until the end of the season, he'll be able to better gauge his worth. If VMart needs to spend half his time at another position, he isnt worth 8 figures per season. VMart as a DH or 1B is worth probably $6-8 mil per season. I guarantee Theo is going to use this in his extension argument and potentially save some bucks here.

[BSN07]

Averaging 100 games for a catcher who has had durability issues during his age 29 and 30 seasons who's 31 yrs old? There is a reason why Theo is waiting' date=' he's playing it smart. Theo has always been about paying a player for what he could contribute and not paying for past success. If re-signed right now as a catcher, he's in line for $10-15 mil per season depending on what Mauer gets. If Theo waits until the end of the season, he'll be able to better gauge his worth. If VMart needs to spend half his time at another position, he isnt worth 8 figures per season. VMart as a DH or 1B is worth probably $6-8 mil per season. I guarantee Theo is going to use this in his extension argument and potentially save some bucks here.[/quote']

 

Well I agree with you here. I don't see them do anything until the end of the season.

 

Anyways, if the sign him fine, if not, I will still watch the games

[jacksonianmarch]

But I watch the gamezzzz!!! RIP Gom

[BSN07]

But I watch the gamezzzz!!! RIP Gom

 

Did I miss something? Did he manage to get himself banned?

[jacksonianmarch]

yeah, he's gone. Happened awhile ago

[YAZMAN]

Also Hal McRae' date=' Brian Downing, Chili Davis, and Paul Molitor. (I just saw the Prime 9 )[/quote']

 

Dave Kingman would have been the prototype entrenched DH if he was good enough to hit the AL pitching.

[Imperial59]

Averaging 100 games for a catcher who has had durability issues during his age 29 and 30 seasons who's 31 yrs old? There is a reason why Theo is waiting' date=' he's playing it smart.[/quote']

 

The reason's name is Joe Mauer. Once Mauer signs, the Red Sox preferred catcher will probably be V-Mart.

[Keeper]

I'm a big Kurt Suzuki fan. Martinez hasn't caught 100 games in a season 2 years in a row, and he's entering his 30s. If Martinez can't put the gear on for 110-120 games, I'd try to get Suzuki and replace V-Mart's bat with Adrian Gonzalez.

 

Actually, regardless of what Martinez does, I think they should go that route.

[Dipre]

Carlos Pena is also a possibility if they lose out on Gonzales and lose V-Mart. He's like Adrian Gonzales light.

[riverside sluggers]

If he can manage 90-110 games behind the plate over the span of the contract(which is reasonable IMO)' date=' it would give the Sox plenty of games to rotate "veteran players", and not gum up the DH spot at all. Plus is gives the Sox 60+ games for the Sox to break in a young Catcher, or for this season, let Tek have his last hurrah so to speak.[/quote']

 

I was responding to Jacko who said "why should they lock him up to be the DH, with him having a good but not great bat." I replied, well what AL teams actually have great DH's today

[Dojji]

Considering that we have 3-4 young catchers with at least solid backup potential coming along over the next 3 years, I'm not too bothered about the fact that our starting catcher will need the occasional break from behind the plate.

 

Consider also that we're very well situated to deal with V-Mart's need not to be the fulltime catche and still get his bat in the lineupr this year. Whatever you think of Beltre's overall talent level, he's coming off a bad year made worse by injury and surgery and he should probably be encouraged to take 40 games or so off over the course of the year anyway, probably when Verlander, Greinke, and other particularly tough righthanders are on the mound. When that happens, V-Mart takes first, Youkilis takes third, just like last year, and Varitek comes in behind the plate. Not optimal, especially the Varitek part, but it does take a RHH out of the lineup and puts an ostensible LHH in his place.

 

What we do next year is utterly dependent on whether the Twins get something done with Mauer. I fully expect Boston to fight New York over Mauer and win if he's available. they've got too much money coming off the books, and New York has too much NOT coming off the books plus a strong catching prospect in the wings. They will go after Mauer, but it'll be the Teixeira situation in reverse -- New York will know they don't really NEED him, while Boston knows they really do.

 

If Mauer's not coming to Boston, then they sign Victor Martinez and wait on the development of one of Wagner, Expo, Fed or Lavarnway.

 

Personally I suspect Wags is our backup next year unless something goes hideously wrong at the big league level or amazingly right with one of the other 3. I don't think Varitek's here past this season.

[Dipre]

And the irrational Beltre hate continues. Like clockwork.

[TheKilo]

Haven't had a chance to comment on this article....first it is a bit disingenuous of the reporter to make the claim that VMart "doesn't want to leave Boston". VMart is a guy who is intensely loyal to the organization he plays for and just has no interest in moving multiple times (think back to his presser after leaving Cleveland).

 

The most refreshing thing, however, is he acknowledges that the Sox are most likely going to look at Mauer and he doesn't take issue with that. Good on him.

 

Sox won't sign him before ST, but I anticipate them signing him to something like a 3/45 deal after this season.

[Dojji]

I disagree with you, Kilo, only in that I think that Minnesota is going to play a game of chicken with Mauer in an effort to bring his price tag down, and the V-Mart negotiations are going to hang on how that turns out. I'm still not convinced that a team like Minnesota, not known as a big spender, is really going to see past the bottom line and ink Mauer at the elite price he's going to want to be paid. if he becomes available, Victor Martinez will be a free agent.

 

I'm not saying it'd be smart for Minnesota to do this mind, just that that's how I see it happening.

[TheMino007]

And the irrational Beltre hate continues. Like clockwork.

 

All that was said that was Beltre was coming off an injury that it could prohibit him from playing a full season. People have a right to question Beltre, he has been a bust since joining the Mariners, say what you want about park adjusted numbers, but the guy isn't a great OBP guy. He cashed in on one great year in LA and has been an iffy hitter during his tenure in Seattle. He is a great defender but it is reasonable to wonder if his groin problem will limit his range. Funny how if he said something about Lowell you wouldn't said anything but if its one of your boys you go off.

[Dipre]

All that was said that was Beltre was coming off an injury that it could prohibit him from playing a full season. People have a right to question Beltre' date=' he has been a bust since joining the Mariners, say what you want about park adjusted numbers, but the guy isn't a great OBP guy. He cashed in on one great year in LA and has been an iffy hitter during his tenure in Seattle. He is a great defender but it is reasonable to wonder if his groin problem will limit his range. Funny how if he said something about Lowell you wouldn't said anything but if its one of your boys you go off.[/quote']

 

Lol.

 

25 HR's and 30+ 2b year plus GG defense obviously equals bust.

 

Your thought process is questionable at best. He had one bad year due to injury, which is a small sample size when compared to his whole body of work. The fact that he's not an OBP guy doesn't mean he can't be productive, because his predecessor, Mike Lowell, was a non-OBP pull-righty who was very productive. Just like Beltre. If you don't believe in park-adjusted stats, that's fine, it just goes to show the deficiencies in your opinions, which are many, and obviously easy to spot.

 

Oh, and people have a right to question every signing, since every acquisition has quesiton marks, but they should do so both in the proper context, and with logically based arguments, lest their opinions be considered incorrect, and sometimes, even laughable.

[Ray10]

Well there's no way that Minny is gonna let Mauer walk so I say resign V-Mart to catch for the next couple of years.

[BSN07]

Well there's no way that Minny is gonna let Mauer walk so I say resign V-Mart to catch for the next couple of years.

 

There should be no rush to sign Martinez, it's not the be all end all to get it done before the season starts. They have all season to lay the groundwork, and 2 weeks at the end of the season to hammer it out if need be. Unless Martinez will except some insanely friendly deal or something like that, they should wait and see how the Mauer negotiations go.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lol.

 

25 HR's and 30+ 2b year plus GG defense obviously equals bust.

 

Your thought process is questionable at best. He had one bad year due to injury, which is a small sample size when compared to his whole body of work. The fact that he's not an OBP guy doesn't mean he can't be productive, because his predecessor, Mike Lowell, was a non-OBP pull-righty who was very productive. Just like Beltre. If you don't believe in park-adjusted stats, that's fine, it just goes to show the deficiencies in your opinions, which are many, and obviously easy to spot.

Oh, and people have a right to question every signing, since every acquisition has quesiton marks, but they should do so both in the proper context, and with logically based arguments, lest their opinions be considered incorrect, and sometimes, even laughable.

 

You always make comments like that. They just arent right. He has a point, which you can counter, but both of you are right at this point

 

A bust depends on the type of expectations set forth. If he thought that Beltre circa 2004 was the expectation, then he's a major bust. But Beltre 2005-2008 wasnt that bad. Beltre 2009 was horrid and that leaves a lot of people with concern over his play coming into the season.

 

Also, look at Beltre's body of work. It might surprise you to see how consistent he is. Consistently average from the offensive perspective. His career line is .270/.325/.453 for an OPS of .778. He has eclipsed an .800OPS 3 times in his 11 yr career. He's been between .710 and .804 8 times in his 11 seasons. So, while you tout park adjusted stats, there is a long body of work showing Beltre's consistency. He's a mid to high .700s OPS third baseman. He has above average power for the position, but not spectacular. He is very aggressive leaving his IsoPatience pretty low. Offensively, he won't kill you, but he isnt a guy to lean on either. Exactly why the Mariners failed with him. He was expected to be a middle of the order bat. He isnt. But as an isolated commodity, an average OPS guy with above average power and a great glove at 3b is valuable. So, he's worth the money to the sox. Doesnt mean everyone is thrilled with him. Now, I do expect his offense to improve in the sox lineup and in Fenway, but by how much? That's the question. And, he's coming off an injury filled, terrible season, which clouds the predictions even further. He has a right to be concerned.

 

Now, you try to make the comparison to Lowell, which is off base IMO. Lowell and Beltre have been playing full time for 11 seasons. In that time, Lowell has a 30 point advantage on Beltre in OPS over their careers, and Lowell has surpassed .800 6 times in his career. Plus, by removing one completely abnormal season from Lowell where he has a .650OPS over 500ABs, you see that he's been .788 or higher in all seasons after his rookie campaign. That OPS is higher than Beltre's career OPS. So, Lowell is more of a threat IMO. And, dont use the park effects for that either since Lowell is only helped by his first yr in Boston and not helped by his last 2.

 

Regardless, Beltre is an upgrade defensively from Lowell regardless of health since Lowell couldnt move. Offensively, if he's healthy, he's a mild downgrade. If he isnt healthy, then he'll be a burden for 2010, but just a 1 yr burden

[Dojji]

That's a fair take from Jacko. Frankly, I wouldn't mind throwing both of them over and going for the original plan I wanted, a mid 20's HR hitting 1B and let Youkilis take third.

 

The Sox FO though seems to think Youkilis is more "a 1B who can manage adequately as a long-term 3B backup" than "a 3B." That being the case, and given our total lack of young 3B prospects that have any chance of cracking the roster, id probably makes sense to take a look over this season and next offseason at young 3B's we could acquire in trade.

 

WARNING: TRADE SPECULATION TO FOLLOW.

 

All the vibes I've heard in Kansas City suggests that there's kind of an odd relationship there with Alberto Callaspo. Trey Hillman put up a preliminary "first draft lineup" that had Chris Getz at second, not sure what that was, maybe they don't think he can hack it at second, maybe they were just trying to motivate him, but there's some definite friction between Callaspo and KC right now when you'd think the last thing they'd want to do is alienate their second-best hitter. Seattle's already picked up the phone a couple times if the rumors are to be believed but so far Callaspo isn't for sale.

 

If Callaspo shoots his way out of KC somehow, I wouldn't mind at all taking a chance on him at third, where he's looked good over a SSS. His bat played like Bill Mueller's last year (as did his glove at second lol), but I think he could carry himself at 3B offensively and I think Callaspo is a natural 3B.