Unofficial Adrian Gonzalez thread.

[example1]

I will not be complaining if we get 3 solid years out of him. By 2013' date=' if he can't play the field, he can probably DH, because Ortiz will probably be sitting under a mango tree by 2013.[/quote']

 

You would have been complaining if the Sox had signed Zito and Schmidt a few years ago instead of signing Matsuzaka. Remember when you said they should do that? Todd Helton would have strapped this team financially moving forward, even if they were happily willing to go above the LT threshold. Even as much as we liked the idea of getting Teixeira, did anyone REALLY feel comfortable having a 9th and 10th year vesting option at nearly $20m a year? What if he breaks down in the 5th season?

 

Yes, they may have had the money to do all of those things, but it wasn't smart so they didn't do it.

 

There is a limited amount of smart investments in baseball. The Red Sox get a fair number of them and pass on a lot of bad ones.

 

Gom likes to rub it in and say the Sox haven't improved over the last three years despite their revenues. That's understandable, he's a Yankees fan and he likes rubbing people here the wrong way. He doesn't frame that with "although the Yankees didn't make the playoffs with a $200m payroll, the Red Sox should spend their money differently".

 

You on the other hand, simply don't appreciate a team that makes it to the playoffs year after year. You spend your 4-6k every year and believe that the Sox should therefore spend money whenever there's a player that is available who might make them better, while indicating that you don't care about their long term flexibility, or draft pick compensation, or Scott Boras actively working teams for a shitload more money.

[Keeper]

Is Bay at 5 years so much more of an injury risk than Lackey at 5 years. He's been injured in each of the last 2 seasons' date=' but we both like that deal... right?[/quote']

 

Lackey's injuries have been overblown by some on the board, namely Gom. He's been on the DL twice in 8 seasons. Also would have easily gone over 180 innings last year if he hadn't got ejected in the first inning of his first start. This guy regularly pitches deep into games.

[example1]

Some contracts can be real killers' date=' like Lugo. I don't think that a 5th year of Bay would be a terrible thing, especially since they are offering 4. In 4 years, the team will have oodles more money, so it will not cripple them. They have the resources to get Holliday or Bay without crippling the team financially. They would still be extremely profitable, and neither would sacrifice the future. [b']They convinced themselves that they may not need another hitter. It's not about that they can't afford it. It's about them thinking they don't need a big bat. [/b]

 

Remember when you said that people shouldn't tell you what you think? I think perhaps you should stop telling us what Theo Epstein thinks. He said in recent press conferences that signing John Lackey gives them the flexibility to move pieces for a big bat if they need to. He didn't say "we don't need a big bat".

 

The point is that people have spent days and pages and pages on this site alone arguing the merits of Matt Holliday vs. Jason Bay, or just Matt Holliday alone (can he hit in the AL). Although I come down on the side of "yes, he can" there nonetheless exists doubt about his real value moving forward.

 

There is no doubt about the value that a player like Adrian Gonzalez would bring to this team. Not only is he a better offensive player at a position the Sox can stand to improve on, he's also younger and cheaper and not represented by Scott Boras. For all of these reasons it makes sense to most reasonable people to hold out and trade for a player like this instead of buying the most expensive FA, or a guy who won't be able to stay in LF moving forward.

 

The question at that point isn't one about whether or not the FO is willing to make the move, the question is what will they have to give up in return. Most reasonable baseball people would acknowledge that if the current asking price is, say, Jacoby Ellsbury and Clay Buchholz, and in a few months it would be Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland, it makes a lot more sense to just wait, especially given that it likely won't impact their ability to make the playoffs.

[example1]

Also, what do you make of the fact that Bay and Cameron have been worth roughly the same amount the past few years according to people that measure these things? I mean that seriously, not in a confrontational way.

 

Do you not believe it?

 

Do you believe a run prevented is as valuable as a run scored?

[BSN07]

a700 is like TalkSox's very own Energizer Bunny. He takes a licking, but keeps on ticking.

 

I give him credit. If everything that came out of my mouth was bashed and dismissed using logic, I'd keep quiet.

[Dipre]

Some contracts can be real killers' date=' like Lugo. I don't think that a 5th year of Bay would be a terrible thing, especially since they are offering 4. In 4 years, the team will have oodles more money, so it will not cripple them. They have the resources to get Holliday or Bay without crippling the team financially. They would still be extremely profitable, and neither would sacrifice the future. They convinced themselves that they may not need another hitter. It's not about that they can't afford it. It's about them thinking they don't need a big bat. You and I think otherwise. Their "we don't want to sacrifice the future" argument doesn't fly here, because these guys would only cost $. Gonzalez would put a hurt on the farm system. I think this FO is great, but like all businessmen, they spin some ********. The "not sacrificing the future" excuse is BS here, because there are FA options. I've noticed that they have actually stayed away from the "we can't afford it" excuse this winter, because they know that it has been exposed as BS. They are taking the tact that they don't need a big bat, but if they do they'll pick one up during the season. This is a typical cop-out used by Front Offices all through baseball. Minaya has been floating that line to the Met fans for 3 or 4 years already. The Met fans caught on last year. My friend calls it the Met spin cycle. The "we will fill in our team as needed during the season" will be followed by nothing major being done at the trading deadline with the cover story that other teams "wanted too much, and we don't want to sacrifice the future." This is nothing new. Fans all over baseball hear this BS. Our owners engage in the same stuff, but so do the Yankees. Because the Sox and the Yankees have a lot of revenue, they engage in it less often than most teams. We both think the Sox need a big bat, and we both know that they can afford it. Is Bay at 5 years so much more of an injury risk than Lackey at 5 years. He's been injured in each of the last 2 seasons, but we both like that deal... right?[/quote']

 

You're disregarding everything i told you.

 

Bay's problems are legit. They probably think four is a stretch, so going 5 is not a good idea.

 

Simple as that.

[a700hitter]

a700 is like TalkSox's very own Energizer Bunny. He takes a licking, but keeps on ticking.

 

I give him credit. If everything that came out of my mouth was bashed and dismissed using logic, I'd keep quiet.

If you knew half as much about anything that I know, you'd be twice as smart as you already are.

[BSN07]

If you knew half as much about anything that I know' date=' you'd be twice as smart as you already are.[/quote']

 

For someone who claims to know alot, you sure have a funny way of showing it

[a700hitter]

Remember when you said that people shouldn't tell you what you think? I think perhaps you should stop telling us what Theo Epstein thinks. He said in recent press conferences that signing John Lackey gives them the flexibility to move pieces for a big bat if they need to. He didn't say "we don't need a big bat".

Right. He said if they need to. He also said that it would be easier to pick up a big bat at the trading deadline than to pick up a pitcher. He has made several remarks about picking up the bat later. Tito this week siad that he likes this team and doesn't think it needs another bat.

So I am taking their remarks at face value. I leave the mind reading to you.

 

The point is that people have spent days and pages and pages on this site alone arguing the merits of Matt Holliday vs. Jason Bay' date=' or just Matt Holliday alone (can he hit in the AL). Although I come down on the side of "yes, he can" there nonetheless exists doubt about his real value moving forward.[/quote']So, we are in agreement on this.

 

There is no doubt about the value that a player like Adrian Gonzalez would bring to this team. Not only is he a better offensive player at a position the Sox can stand to improve on' date=' he's also younger and cheaper and not represented by Scott Boras. For all of these reasons it makes sense to most reasonable people to hold out and trade for a player like this instead of buying the most expensive FA, or a guy who won't be able to stay in LF moving forward. [/quote']He'd also cost lots of prospects possibly affecting the future.

 

The question at that point isn't one about whether or not the FO is willing to make the move' date=' the question is what will they have to give up in return. Most reasonable baseball people would acknowledge that if the current asking price is, say, Jacoby Ellsbury and Clay Buchholz, and in a few months it would be Casey Kelly and Ryan Westmoreland, it makes a lot more sense to just wait, especially given that it likely won't impact their ability to make the playoffs.[/quote']If they don't want to pony up the prospects, because it will impact the future, then pay to get one of the FA's. I don't care which direction they take to get the big bat. They just need to get one. They either opt to pay for it in cash or prospects. They are saying that they'll wait to see if they need one. This is not me reading their mind. I leave that to you.

[a700hitter]

For someone who claims to know alot' date=' you sure have a funny way of showing it [/quote']I can't help that your ability to understand is limited.

[a700hitter]

For someone who claims to know alot' date=' you sure have a funny way of showing it [/quote']Yeah, and I was right about yesterday regarding two-thirds of Red Sox revenue coming from ticket receipts too, even though some people had trouble with the financials.

[Dipre]

Yeah' date=' and I was right about yesterday regarding two-thirds of Red Sox revenue coming from ticket receipts too, even though some people had trouble with the financials.[/quote']

 

Almost right.

[a700hitter]

You would have been complaining if the Sox had signed Zito and Schmidt a few years ago instead of signing Matsuzaka. Remember when you said they should do that? Todd Helton would have strapped this team financially moving forward' date=' even if they were happily willing to go above the LT threshold. Even as much as we liked the idea of getting Teixeira, did anyone REALLY feel comfortable having a 9th and 10th year vesting option at nearly $20m a year? What if he breaks down in the 5th season?[/quote']You are bringing up 2006 off season thread discussions. That's so lame. Yeah that was the year that you said that Jason Schmidt was a close second to Dice K in your preferences. He's had a stellar career since then. Huh? You also said that Zito would make the Mets contenders for years. You are really lame with this stuff. How about we discuss the issues at hand rather than cherry pick old posts, because I can do that too. It's a little more difficult to do with you, because you almost never take a position prior to the FO making a move, and then you just jump on board. BTW what happened to the big push that the Sox were going to put on for King Felix that you were orgasmically predicting in August? I guess the FO is really playing that one close to the vest.

 

You on the other hand' date=' simply don't appreciate a team that makes it to the playoffs year after year. You spend your 4-6k every year and believe that the Sox should therefore spend money whenever there's a player that is available who might make them better, while indicating that you don't care about their long term flexibility, or draft pick compensation, or Scott Boras actively working teams for a shitload more money.[/quote']What would you know what I appreciate. I do believe that there is always room for improvement as I am sure the Red Sox FO would agree. Any smart businessman knows that there is always ways to improve, and this FO is smart. What we do here is try to have some fun discussing ways that we think they can improve the team, but you can never have fun if you perceive that Theo is being slighted.

[a700hitter]

Almost right.

For the Sox I was right. For the Yankees I was right is you added in hot dog sales.

[Dipre]

For the Sox I was right. For the Yankees I was right is you added in hot dog sales.

 

Not 2/3. Close to 50%. Get your fact straights, old man. And the 10 million for concessions is a significant number.

 

Pretty good number for hot dogs.

[a700hitter]

Not 2/3. Close to 50%. Get your fact straights, old man. And the 10 million for concessions is a significant number.

 

Pretty good number for hot dogs.

That was all concessions, and the Sox don't come close to getting that.

[Dipre]

That was all concessions' date=' and the Sox don't come close to getting that.[/quote']

 

Of course they do. Lots of professional hot-dog eaters go to Fenway to train for the competitive eating league.

[a700hitter]

You would have been complaining if the Sox had signed Zito and Schmidt a few years ago instead of signing Matsuzaka. Remember when you said they should do that? Todd Helton would have strapped this team financially moving forward' date=' even if they were happily willing to go above the LT threshold. [/quote']If you want to talk about old posts from 2006, here's a classic from you. You and others were convinced that a piece of s*** like Chris Duncan and WMP could provide the necessary protection for Ortiz if Manny got traded. I told you guys that Duncan was a bench warmer and that WMP couldn't be trusted. I said that Ortiz wouldn't need to buy bats, because no one would pitch to him. You went a bit further in your projections of WMP and Duncan predicting that they could "realistically" put up 55 HRs and 160 RBI over a full season. :lol: Read it and weep. You want to look up old posts to discredit current arguments? This discredits just about anything you have since said. I keep re-reading it to make sure that you really said it.:lol: Wow, they had some careers. WMP hit all of 37 HRs in his entire career after coming to the Sox, and Duncan had a whopping 55 career HRs. Both of them had wrapped up their major league careers before they got to age 28. What an eye for talent!

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/202936-post416.html

[Spudboy]

Lol!

 

Good stuff.

[Rdsxmbnt]

If you want to talk about old posts from 2006, here's a classic from you. You and others were convinced that a piece of s*** like Chris Duncan and WMP could provide the necessary protection for Ortiz if Manny got traded. I told you guys that Duncan was a bench warmer and that WMP couldn't be trusted. I said that Ortiz wouldn't need to buy bats, because no one would pitch to him. You went a bit further in your projections of WMP and Duncan predicting that they could "realistically" put up 55 HRs and 160 RBI over a full season. :lol: Read it and weep. You want to look up old posts to discredit current arguments? This discredits just about anything you have since said. I keep re-reading it to make sure that you really said it.:lol: Wow, they had some careers. WMP hit all of 37 HRs in his entire career after coming to the Sox, and Duncan had a whopping 55 career HRs. Both of them had wrapped up their major league careers before they got to age 28. What an eye for talent!

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/202936-post416.html

 

This isn't your 2009 Chris Duncan. He was coming off a .952 OPS season as a 25 year old.

 

Btw weren't you the one that said Youk is "not that good", "close to peak performance", and "not a long term answer at either corner"? Personally I think he's turned out a little better then that

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Should anyone take posts seriously from someone who can't pass Introduction to Accounting at a Community College? Seriously.

It's not your word against mine, genius, it's your word against the word of the front office of the team who has won two championships so far in their tenure. Minor difference there. The question stands, why are you or Cabbie McYouporn even close to as credible as they are?

 

However, I obviously made you mad enough to make you bring up this accounting thing for the 4,000th time, after you failed to even read the post properly in the first place. So I guess I made a valid point.

[a700hitter]

This isn't your 2009 Chris Duncan. He was coming off a .952 OPS season as a 25 year old.

 

Btw weren't you the one that said Youk is "not that good", "close to peak performance", and "not a long term answer at either corner"? Personally I think he's turned out a little better then that

Some of us knew that he sucked and that he couldn't field a position. Thankfully, the Red Sox FO didn't have a high opinion of him. Do you seriously want to defend that post. I was getting criticized for saying some favorable things about Zito before he went 0 for 100 with the Giants. It's the same thing. If he wants to hold me accountable for Zito's crashing and burning (even though he thought Zito would make the Mets perenial contenders) then I'll hold him accountable for these two pigs who were always pigs. You missed the larger point (as usual) which is that posts from 2006 are not relevant to our current discussion, but if E1 want s to continue to play that game, then I will too. WMP and Duncan in the middle of our lineup!!:lol: Thank goodness that never happened.

[a700hitter]

It's not your word against mine, genius, it's your word against the word of the front office of the team who has won two championships so far in their tenure. Minor difference there. The question stands, why are you or Cabbie McYouporn even close to as credible as they are?

 

However, I obviously made you mad enough to make you bring up this accounting thing for the 4,000th time, after you failed to even read the post properly in the first place. So I guess I made a valid point.

You've never made a valid point. You are incapable.

[Dipre]

It's not your word against mine' date=' genius, it's your word against the word of the front office of the team who has won two championships so far in their tenure. Minor difference there. The question stands, why are you or [b']Cabbie McYouporn [/b]even close to as credible as they are?

 

However, I obviously made you mad enough to make you bring up this accounting thing for the 4,000th time, after you failed to even read the post properly in the first place. So I guess I made a valid point.

 

Coined.

 

Gom's new name on the site.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You actually are right in that I have nowhere close to the credibility of the Red Sox front office. I have no answer for you other than to further jump the shark with my tired-old-f***-who-thinks-he-is-funny image.

 

Basically the message I received after looking through the generic 'you're young and you didn't pass accounting and you're a dummyhead because I say so' junk.

[a700hitter]

It's not your word against mine' date=' genius, it's your word against the word of the front office of the team who has won two championships so far in their tenure. Minor difference there. The question stands, why are you or [b']Cabbie McYouporn [/b]even close to as credible as they are?

Maybe we should call you Jacoby_Effsbury, because I am unaware of any grading system that goes below F to L.

[yankees228]

To me, most of the stuff in this thread simply isn't debatable. The Red Sox make a lot of money, and they spend a lot of money. Fact. The Yankees make more money, so they spend more money. Fact. Year in and year out both of these teams are able to compete for a championship because they're able to spend a lot of money, and, for the most part, they have people in the front office that make good decisions.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Trying too hard, yet again.

[Dipre]

To me' date=' most of the stuff in this thread simply isn't debatable. The Red Sox make a lot of money, and they spend a lot of money. Fact. The Yankees make more money, so they spend more money. Fact. Year in and year out both of these teams are able to compete for a championship because they're able to spend a lot of money, and, for the most part, they have people in the front office that make good decisions.[/quote']

 

Thank the Lord.

 

You, my friend, are the voice of reason.

[BSN07]

You've never made a valid point. You are incapable.

Typical retort from the resident q-tip

Coined.

 

Gom's new name on the site.

LOL I loved it too

Maybe we should call you Jacoby_Effsbury' date=' because I am unaware of any grading system that goes below F to L.[/quote']

Shazaam! You really got him!

To me' date=' most of the stuff in this thread simply isn't debatable. The Red Sox make a lot of money, and they spend a lot of money. Fact. The Yankees make more money, so they spend more money. Fact. Year in and year out both of these teams are able to compete for a championship because they're able to spend a lot of money, and, for the most part, they have people in the front office that make good decisions.[/quote']

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Your easily the best "Yankee" poster on this site.