Unofficial Adrian Gonzalez thread.

[Dipre]

A s***-ton of talent? Who?

 

Fine. However, salary dumps are not real trades, in any league. Since the NBA doesn't have the same system of free agency, their M.O. is expiring contracts.

 

Oh?

 

Now they weren't real trades? Weak as water.

 

I posted the guys who changed teams above. Take the time to read. Both Wally-S and Jeff Green are pretty good. West was a bust.Draft picks were also exchanged.Theo Ratliff was the only expiring contract involved in the deal. Please investigate before you run your mouth.

 

 

 

Shall I quote it again?

 

Yes. Make sure Emmz puts vaseline on it next time.

 

You're 37, act like it.

 

I was just quoting you, buddy.

 

Let's get back to the main debate here, before you tripped up on your words.

 

What happened that caused the Red Sox to increase their payroll?

 

Just a question...why, outside of a700, do you guys all take every word of your FO as the gospel truth? Why don't you take a step back and say...does this make sense?

 

I honestly never thought I would meet more delusional fans than Yankee fans until I met Red Sox fans.

 

Cop-out. Weak as water.

[Gom]

Fine, you can have the last word...my point was made pages ago.

 

Now..answer the questions.

 

What happened that caused the Red Sox to increase their payroll?

 

Just a question...why, outside of a700, do you guys all take every word of your FO as the gospel truth? Why don't you take a step back and say...does this make sense?

[Emmz]

Al Jefferson? Wally Szczerbiak? Delonte West? Jeff Green?

 

Delonte West was a bust, sure, but how about Wally? Fine player with the T-Wolves and Celtics for many years. How about Al Jefferson? Absolute monster they had to give up to get KG. He put up stats comparable to Garnett's, but you refuse to acknowledge that. Jeff Green, he was the 5th pick in the NBA Draft. His value was very high. Plus Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, etc. How were they not giving up a lot for two guys?

[Dipre]

Fine, you can have the last word...my point was made pages ago.

 

Now..answer the questions.

 

What happened that caused the Red Sox to increase their payroll?

 

Just a question...why, outside of a700, do you guys all take every word of your FO as the gospel truth? Why don't you take a step back and say...does this make sense?

 

As usual, you're reaching.

 

I did the research.

 

The Sox and Yanks use nearly the same percentage of their projected revenues in player salaries. They have a business model which they follow to maximize profit.

 

I will tell you again, you're so obsessed with not being a "sheep" to the media, you've become a "sheep" of your own unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority. You're talking for the sake of talking, without doing any actual research.

[Gom]

As usual, you're reaching.

 

I did the research.

 

The Sox and Yanks use nearly the same percentage of their projected revenues in player salaries. They have a business model which they follow to maximize profit.

 

I will tell you again, you're so obsessed with not being a "sheep" to the media, you've become a "sheep" of your own unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority. You're talking for the sake of talking, without doing any actual research.

 

So the Sox had an increase of 27% revenue from 2008 to 2009? Really? I didn't know that.

 

I guess I can't call you a dumbass.

[Dipre]

So the Sox had an increase of 27% revenue from 2008 to 2009? Really?

 

Have you read anything at all i've posted?

 

Anything?

 

Go back and read. Then get back to me.

[Lester82]

Fine, you can have the last word...my point was made pages ago.

 

Now..answer the questions.

 

What happened that caused the Red Sox to increase their payroll?

 

Just a question...why, outside of a700, do you guys all take every word of your FO as the gospel truth? Why don't you take a step back and say...does this make sense?

 

http://www.dorkmuffin.com/images/shut-the-fuck-up.jpeg

[Gom]

Have you read anything at all i've posted?

 

Anything?

 

Go back and read. Then get back to me.

 

I did. I'm just curious about your math. Mine is..shall we say...slightly different.

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it Lester? Poor baby...

[Dipre]

I did. I'm just curious about your math. Mine is..shall we say...slightly different.

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it Lester? Poor baby...

 

Not.Once.In.This.Thread.Did.I.Say.Anything.About.Increase.In.Revenue.

 

I spoke about a "threshold" and reasons why they would exceed it.

[Emmz]

I did. I'm just curious about your math. Mine is..shall we say...slightly different.

 

Truth hurts, doesn't it Lester? Poor baby...

 

You have made zero intelligent arguments, Gom.

[Gom]

Not.Once.In.This.Thread.Did.I.Say.Anything.About.Increase.In.Revenue.

 

I spoke about a "threshold" and reasons why they would exceed it.

 

Seems like a cop-out to me. Not you, mind you, I'm tired of insulting you.

 

Them. Your FO. They're full of s***.

 

They exceed the threshold for a 31 year old pitcher with a history of injuries and a 37 year old OFer. Doesn't make sense dude.

 

They always had the money. They just chose not to spend it. The Red Sox can easily afford a 170 million payroll EVERY year. They just choose not to.

[Dipre]

Seems like a cop-out to me. Not you, mind you, I'm tired of insulting you.

 

Them. Your FO. They're full of s***.

 

They exceed the threshold for a 31 year old pitcher with a history of injuries and a 37 year old OFer. Doesn't make sense dude.

 

They always had the money. They just chose not to spend it. The Red Sox can easily afford a 170 million payroll EVERY year. They just choose not to.

 

Please back this up with some sort of objective analysis. The words that spew out of your ass are not enough to convince me.

[Gom]

You have made zero intelligent arguments' date=' Gom.[/quote']

With you, if someone disagrees with Dipre, they're wrong. You've shown that time and time again, which is why no one takes you remotely seriously. I'll continue this with you in PM or IM if you want, but let's leave it out of here, shall we?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Just a question...why, outside of a700, do you guys all take every word of your FO as the gospel truth? Why don't you take a step back and say...does this make sense?

 

I honestly never thought I would meet more delusional fans than Yankee fans until I met Red Sox fans.

 

>a700hitter/Gom

 

>think watching the games is important to knowing how the game works

 

I'll go with the front office.

 

But seriously, does WHAT make sense? I have the choice of putting faith in the moves of the front office that has delivered two world series titles to Boston in their tenure, or I can put faith in the words of two people who are laughably old fashioned, in baseball terms, and snugly fit the profile of the middle-aged know-it-all sports fan who thinks his favorite team's GM is clueless because the team doesn't win 130 games and the championship every year. What kind of idiot sides with the latter?

[Dipre]

With you' date=' if someone disagrees with Dipre, they're wrong. You've shown that time and time again, which is why no one takes you remotely seriously. I'll continue this with you in PM or IM if you want, but let's leave it out of here, shall we?[/quote']

 

They take her more seriously than they take you. That's for damn sure.

[Gom]

>a700hitter/Gom

 

>think watching the games is important to knowing how the game works

 

I'll go with the front office.

 

But seriously, does WHAT make sense? I have the choice of putting faith in the moves of the front office that has delivered two world series titles to Boston in their tenure, or I can put faith in the words of two people who are laughably old fashioned, in baseball terms, and snugly fit the profile of the middle-aged know-it-all sports fan who thinks his favorite team's GM is clueless because the team doesn't win 130 games and the championship every year. What kind of idiot sides with the latter?

 

Bingo. Thank you. You've just proven my point, and don't even realize it.

 

Get my point everyone?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Oh, goodie. What point did I prove, brave Front Office ********-caller of Salvation?

 

*prepares popcorn*

[Emmz]

With you' date=' if someone disagrees with Dipre, they're wrong. You've shown that time and time again, which is why no one takes you remotely seriously. I'll continue this with you in PM or IM if you want, but let's leave it out of here, shall we?[/quote']

 

Baiting attempt denied. I agree with almost anyone who's arguing with you, because you blather ignorance about 99% of the time. Stop derailing topics into fights with insults. No really, the whole Dipre-Emmz connection thing is annoying. I kept my nose out of this topic as long as I could. Usually if someone's wrong, I try to correct them. If they refuse to acknowledge the points, then I move on, which is exactly what I'm going to do.

[Gom]

Oh, goodie. What point did I prove, brave Front Office ********-caller of Salvation?

 

*prepares popcorn*

That you believe what they tell you.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't a good organization. I'm not saying you shouldn't trust their moves. They are a stellar organization, one of the best in the business.

 

They're just full of s***, and that you shouldn't believe everything you read or are told. That's it.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

That you believe what they tell you.

 

I'm not saying that they aren't a good organization. I'm not saying you shouldn't trust their moves. They are a stellar organization, one of the best in the business.

 

They're just full of s***, and that you shouldn't believe everything you read or are told. That's it.

But I SHOULD believe you and a700hitter instead of the very front office that you just called 'stellar' and 'one of the best of the business'.

 

That's all I need, thanks.

[Gom]

But I SHOULD believe you and a700hitter instead of the very front office that you just called 'stellar' and 'one of the best of the business'.

 

That's all I need, thanks.

 

Does it make sense? Again..what changed between last year and this year?

 

What I'm saying is that they could have done this all along. Their ACTIONS prove it. Their WORDS don't.

 

You decide.

[ORS]

So, you think the increase is proof of some point you are making? You've already agreed that salary will fluctuate from year to year as a function of necessity. Since you acknowledge this, it's hard to justify your position of it being proof, no wait, PROOF, that they can spend at the same level every year. It's very common for a business to increase expenditures in the short term for something that fits a long term plan.

 

At the same time, you still have not addressed how their offer to Mark Teixeira last year invalidates what you are saying. You are going to the mattresses with that 27% figure, and it's not even accurate, because last year's salary doesn't represent the long-term expenditure level they are willing to accept....it would be last year's offer to Teixeira + last year's payroll.

[rhet]

Even though I'm a critic of this FO, I appreciate that most of their moves are made to improve the team, rather than for budgetary reasons. And they have struck gold on players many times.

 

However, they do have a tendency to unfairly badmouth players they are discarding. They do this via leaks to certain members of the press. On the flip side, they get boners for certain players, resulting in overpaying for them.

[Dipre]

So, you think the increase is proof of some point you are making? You've already agreed that salary will fluctuate from year to year as a function of necessity. Since you acknowledge this, it's hard to justify your position of it being proof, no wait, PROOF, that they can spend at the same level every year. It's very common for a business to increase expenditures in the short term for something that fits a long term plan.

 

At the same time, you still have not addressed how their offer to Mark Teixeira last year invalidates what you are saying. You are going to the mattresses with that 27% figure, and it's not even accurate, because last year's salary doesn't represent the long-term expenditure level they are willing to accept....it would be last year's offer to Teixeira + last year's payroll.

 

I was going to post this:

 

2009 Opening day payroll: 121,745,999.

 

Offer to Teix (supposedly): 168/8: 21 mill for 2009.

 

Total: 142,745,999.

 

2010 opening payroll figure (pending arbitration cases): 135, 228,333.

 

Add to that around 7-12 million in arbitration (Let's say 12 for argument's sake).

 

2010 payroll: 147,228,333.

 

The actual increase value if you consider the offer will be around 5%.

[SoxSport]

Is this the AdGon thread? You could have fooled me. LOL.

[Gom]

So outside of Tex, there was no one who could have helped the Sox last year? Really?

 

It's obvious to me that if your FO tells you the world is flat, you'd believe it.

 

By the way...I'd be surprised if the Sox payroll was under 150 million.

 

Back to Gonzalez...I wouldn't sleep on the Braves.

[a700hitter]

>a700hitter/Gom

 

>think watching the games is important to knowing how the game works

 

I'll go with the front office.

 

But seriously, does WHAT make sense? I have the choice of putting faith in the moves of the front office that has delivered two world series titles to Boston in their tenure, or I can put faith in the words of two people who are laughably old fashioned, in baseball terms, and snugly fit the profile of the middle-aged know-it-all sports fan who thinks his favorite team's GM is clueless because the team doesn't win 130 games and the championship every year. What kind of idiot sides with the latter?

Should anyone take posts seriously from someone who can't pass Introduction to Accounting at a Community College? Seriously.

[Gom]

LOL!

[Dipre]

So outside of Tex, there was no one who could have helped the Sox last year? Really?

 

It's obvious to me that if your FO tells you the world is flat, you'd believe it.

 

By the way...I'd be surprised if the Sox payroll was under 150 million.

 

Back to Gonzalez...I wouldn't sleep on the Braves.

 

I completely understand why you want to change the subject.

 

And indeed, the true target for the FO was Teixeira besides that, a 4th OF, and a 5th starter.

 

The FO missed out on their main target, Teix, but filled all of the other little needs.

 

No one could have foreseen Dice-K getting injured, and that's what created the need for another pitcher in-season. Just in case you want to come up with a Gom strawman, let us acknowledge the fact that hindsight is 20/20, and the 2008 Sox ballclub made game 7 of the ALCS, so only minor tweaking was needed.

 

Back to Gonzales.

[Palodios]

But they did use the money they had in 2008. They signed Pedroia, Youk, Lester to long term contracts. Then they filled pitching needs with Smoltz and penny. Both signed with incentive-laden contracts.Who would have thought that future HoF John Smoltz would have been such a bust in Boston? He was an incredible pitcher before, and well, I'm sure he's going to have great numbers if he signs again. No, they didn't sign him a big guaranteed contract, but they did give him an incentive-laden contract. The FO is frugal. Look at wakefield's recent contract. Typically, they generally don't sign big players unless they think they see things in them that other teams don't. J.D. Drew for example... he is such an underrated player, but has nearly a .400 OBP and .500 slug.

 

If Lackey stays health, it will be a very good move. Not because it puts them in a position to beat the yankees this year. It doesn't. It gives them a reliable veteran arm that will give them the flexibility of 6 quality starters so they don't have to bring up any of their young pitchers early. It also gives them an insurance policy incase Beckett leaves. None of their minor league pitchers right now are ready to start at the major league level. This move is the kind of move that I think is very smart because they didn't overpay for Lackey, but it protects the clubs future AKA a bridge year when they have the pitching to win it all, but not the hitting.

 

Do I think the FO is incredibly smart? Yes I do. Do I follow them like gospel? No, I don't. Manny Ramirez for example is one situation where they f***ed up big time, and despite Bay's productivity, I believe it cost them the World Series in 2008. Dice-K I believe was a bad decision for the team and the roster, but at the same time I know the kind of foreign revenue he produces.