Clay Bucholz Trade Proposal

[a700hitter]

Where is Example? I'd like to know what he thinks about this before it goes down.

[Plumpamania]

Agreed Gonazlez in Fenway and his ability to hit to all fields would be monsterous, but I'm also thinking and didn't really state that cost factor going forward in the future, Atkins/Uggla would be more cost effective...Beckett is FA after next year and if we want to resign him going Uggla/Atkins would be more cost effecitve IMHO. Also Pujols is a FA potentially after next season (I believe?) and I'd much prefer landing Pujols to Gonzalez, and I believe it all starts with if STL resigns Holliday or not. If he's not resigned Pujols IMHO is as good as gone.

 

Basically I think there are potential better options available...

[TheMino007]

If the deal of Buchholz + Kelley or Westmoreland + B Prospect gets A. Gonazlez to come to Boston and SD likes that package, please Theo fire away. The center piece of that trade, Clay Buchholz is a 26 year SP who has been slow to adapt to the Major League Hitting and his best year was last year, which was nothing great for a supposed ace of the future. Well he is 26, so when the hell is the future? This is the perfect time to trade Clay. Isn't Gonzalez the same age roughly and he is already hitting 40 homers in a season? Seems like he is the smart option to me. He is a relatively young, still cheap, and established as a monster. Clay, well, isn't established or a monster, or even good at this point. 1B last longer than SP's anyway. Do this trade if we can.

[Dowerk17]

Not a huge fan of Uggla and Atkins instead of Gonzalez. Though' date=' one must remember that it looks like we're holding on to Lowell.[/quote']

 

i never quite understood why we were doing the trade for lowell in the first place, getting rid of him for someone who wont even affect our teams performance this year? (i.e. a minor league catcher max ramirez). all that trade seemed like it would be doing is putting us in a spot where we have an infield that isnt squared up at all.

[jacksonianmarch]

As it stands right now, I dont think Lowell moves. He apparently needs thumb surgery, meaning that he might be too much of a risk for the Rangers to offer anything of value for one yr of him. Time to face the facts, he's washed up and unless he's offered for free to someone, I dont think a team bites.

[TheMino007]

He could pretty much end up being free for the Rangers I could see the Sox paying more than 9 million of Lowell's contract, which they are already eating in the trade. I don't think there is anyway Lowell returns to the Sox next year, the bridges have been burned at this point. Lowell is going to Texas, whether if its the Sox eating more money or the Sox taking a less player in return.

[jacksonianmarch]

well, at some point you need to attach a worth of Lowell to your team. Lets say he's a platoon DH with Papi, how much would he be worth then? You dont just dump a guy to dump him, you need to see if he has a value to your team.

[TheMino007]

I wouldn't mind keeping Lowell on the team, but at this point its obvious the Sox are going out of there way to do everything they can to just get rid of Lowell. I mean if Lowell does come back, how much moral can he have playing for a team that doesn't want him? It becomes a bit detrimental to the Sox b/c Lowell obviously won't be giving his full effort.

[Dojji]

That's a pretty serious thing to accuse a pro athlete of, especially a guy like Lowell

 

Frankly, you can impugn Lowell's ability, with all his injury problems, but his level of effort has never been questionable.

[Spudboy]

As it stands right now' date=' I dont think Lowell moves. He apparently needs thumb surgery, meaning that he might be too much of a risk for the Rangers to offer anything of value for one yr of him. Time to face the facts, he's washed up and unless he's offered for free to someone, I dont think a team bites.[/quote']

 

I can see what you are saying. Although, I'm not so sure that he is washed-up.

 

No, I believe that he CAN (not will) be a contributor in the Sox line-up.

 

110-125 games and career average offense would be just fine for 2010.

 

f*** Beltre. Gold Glove and all.

 

Lost time due to surgery not withstanding, of course.

[TheMino007]

I wouldn't mind seeing Lowell back, as I've said I prefer him over Beltre. Lowell was productive last year, but Francona mis-managed him and played him in too many games. Like previously said, you have to limit his play in the field. He can DH vs. lefties and have Ortiz benched. Kotchman gets more play at 1stbase, which is a good thing b/c he could be defensively better at the position than Youkilis.

[Spudboy]

That's a pretty serious thing to accuse a pro athlete of, especially a guy like Lowell

 

Frankly, you can impugn Lowell's ability, with all his injury problems, but his level of effort has never been questionable.

 

Well Dojji, I would surmise that there is a generational gap here.

 

Older folk can appreciate integrity, heart, sense of purpose, etc.

 

Younger folk have trouble with the use of "your and you're, there and their".

[Dojji]

You just called me old. I might have to kill you now.

[Gom]

If the deal of Buchholz + Kelley or Westmoreland + B Prospect gets A. Gonazlez to come to Boston and SD likes that package' date=' please Theo fire away. The center piece of that trade, Clay Buchholz is a 26 year SP who has been slow to adapt to the Major League Hitting and his best year was last year, which was nothing great for a supposed ace of the future. Well he is 26, so when the hell is the future? This is the perfect time to trade Clay. Isn't Gonzalez the same age roughly and he is already hitting 40 homers in a season? Seems like he is the smart option to me. He is a relatively young, still cheap, and established as a monster. Clay, well, isn't established or a monster, or even good at this point. 1B last longer than SP's anyway. Do this trade if we can.[/quote']

 

I pray that Theo does not read this. I think this is exactly what the Red Sox should do, and it would make them the favorites going into this season.

[Meh]

If the deal of Buchholz + Kelley or Westmoreland + B Prospect gets A. Gonazlez to come to Boston and SD likes that package' date=' please Theo fire away. The center piece of that trade, Clay Buchholz is a 26 year SP who has been slow to adapt to the Major League Hitting and his best year was last year, which was nothing great for a supposed ace of the future. Well he is 26, so when the hell is the future? This is the perfect time to trade Clay. Isn't Gonzalez the same age roughly and he is already hitting 40 homers in a season? Seems like he is the smart option to me. He is a relatively young, still cheap, and established as a monster. Clay, well, isn't established or a monster, or even good at this point. 1B last longer than SP's anyway. Do this trade if we can.[/quote']

 

RWML has a clause in his contract that says he can't be traded unless he approves it. Similar to the NTC, IIRC. Buchholz, Kelly, Ellsbury, Rizzo and Kalish gets A-Gon.

[a700hitter]

RWML has a clause in his contract that says he can't be traded unless he approves it. Similar to the NTC' date=' IIRC. Buchholz, Kelly, Ellsbury, Rizzo and Kalish gets A-Gon.[/quote']Yeah, no kidding.

[Emmz]

RWML has a clause in his contract that says he can't be traded unless he approves it. Similar to the NTC' date=' IIRC. Buchholz, Kelly, Ellsbury, Rizzo and Kalish gets A-Gon.[/quote']

 

Bucholz Kelly AND Ellsbury, plus the other prospects? I don't think so, IMO Bucholz and Ellsbury alone get that done, or maybe Bucholz, Kelly and another prospect like Anderson. I don't think giving up Ellsbury, unless we want to sign Holliday, is going to be happening. That idea does awesome though!

[example1]

I don't love the idea of moving Buchholz but if they got Adrian Gonzalez for him I certainly couldn't complain. The Sox would be starting someone like Sheets or Bowden or Tazawa because they moved a #2 or #3 caliber starter who could be a #1.

 

Also, getting Gonzalez doesn't guarantee them a WS. They will still have to play the games and they will lose more than 40% of them either way and in the playoffs we will all be biting our nails either way. No matter what, the Yankees will still be a really, really good team. That can't be the measuring stick by which we evaluate success.

 

As usual, I think the best move is to do whatever it takes to ensure that this team can afford to stay ultra competitive as long as possible. So far, so good. They don't need to sell the farm for Gonzalez if the cost is prohibative. They will get their chance at an elite bat without moving Buchholz, probably over the next two year or so, while they will probably still have a very, very strong rotation and a good core to continue building around.

 

 

Of course, they could mitigate the loss of their pitching prospets if they signed Aroldis Chapman and put him in AA to learn in their system. Buchholz + Kelly for Gonzalez while signing Chapman would be a pretty solid move. It is a rare opportunity for an elite draft-age player to become available on the market.

[Emmz]

I don't love the idea of moving Buchholz but if they got Adrian Gonzalez for him I certainly couldn't complain. The Sox would be starting someone like Sheets or Bowden or Tazawa because they moved a #2 or #3 caliber starter who could be a #1.

 

Also, getting Gonzalez doesn't guarantee them a WS. They will still have to play the games and they will lose more than 40% of them either way and in the playoffs we will all be biting our nails either way. No matter what, the Yankees will still be a really, really good team. That can't be the measuring stick by which we evaluate success.

 

As usual, I think the best move is to do whatever it takes to ensure that this team can afford to stay ultra competitive as long as possible. So far, so good. They don't need to sell the farm for Gonzalez if the cost is prohibative. They will get their chance at an elite bat without moving Buchholz, probably over the next two year or so, while they will probably still have a very, very strong rotation and a good core to continue building around.

 

 

Of course, they could mitigate the loss of their pitching prospets if they signed Aroldis Chapman and put him in AA to learn in their system. Buchholz + Kelly for Gonzalez while signing Chapman would be a pretty solid move. It is a rare opportunity for an elite draft-age player to become available on the market.

 

Agree with what's in bold big time. Also, I think getting Gonzalez automatically puts us near the top of baseball, if not the top, in terms of offense. A-Gon would be a true clean-up hitter, which is something we don't have right now. Move Youk to 3rd, and there you have it, that's a very good lineup, and our rotation is now possibly the best in all of baseball. I think Lester, Beckett and Lackey is the best top 3 in baseball right now (that I can think of, I may be having a brain fart though)

[Dojji]

Of course they could just sign Chapman anyway and make a sickly deep farm system even deeper.

[Dipre]

Of course they could just sign Chapman anyway and make a sickly deep farm system even deeper.

 

Acquiring elite Major league talent whose production is guaranteed (A-Gon) and is young (26 so is Buch) is one of the reasons MLB teams have a farm system in the first place. You can pine against trading young players all you want, but to make the current club better, they'll need to trade some young talent, with A-Gon, this team is the Yankees' equal even if they sign Jason Bay.

[Dojji]

I'm not against trading Buchholz for Gonzalez, and I've said so in this thread. My point is that using Chapman's potential signing as justification is bunk because it's irrelevant. You could have him anyway, and in fact it would probably be a good idea to ink him with or without Buchholz.

[Dipre]

I'm not against trading Buchholz for Gonzalez' date=' and I've said so in this thread. My point is that using Chapman's potential signing as justification is bunk because it's irrelevant. You could have him anyway, and in fact it would probably be a good idea to ink him with or without Buchholz.[/quote']

 

The problem, signing Chapman as justification probably isn't bunk if Kelly goes in the deal, it's relevant because there are no other significant pitching prospects with Kelly's potential coming through the pipelines.

[Dojji]

I'm not sure you really need pitching prospects with Kelly's potential filtering through on a constant basis, especially right now for us, where we don't actually have room to play them. Unless we don't bring Beckett back there's just not a lot of places for people to play.

 

By the way, how does the trade equation change if we throw in Luis Exposito instead of Ryan Westmoreland? Last time I checked, the Padres didn't have much of a catcher. I mean, Hundley's OK, but he's replaceable, and we can deal with missing Expo probably better than we can deal with losing RWML or Casey Kelly.

[Dipre]

I'm not sure you really need pitching prospects with Kelly's potential filtering through on a constant basis' date=' especially right now for us, where we don't actually have room to play them. [/b'] Unless we don't bring Beckett back there's just not a lot of places for people to play.

 

By the way, how does the trade equation change if we throw in Luis Exposito instead of Ryan Westmoreland? Last time I checked, the Padres didn't have much of a catcher. I mean, Hundley's OK, but he's replaceable, and we can deal with missing Expo probably better than we can deal with losing RWML or Casey Kelly.

 

As stated, i'm operating under the assumption they trade Kelly.

 

The problem, signing Chapman as justification probably isn't bunk if Kelly goes in the deal, it's relevant because there are no other significant pitching prospects with Kelly's potential coming through the pipelines.

 

As for the Exposito thing,Westmoreland is twenty times the prospect Exposito is, you're dealing with Jed Hoyer, he knows the farm system better than anyone sans Theo, don't expect to be able to fleece the guy.