The Best Team Money Could Buy

[Gom]

Gom talking about making s*** up.

 

I should use that in my sig.

 

Would you like me to embarrass you further by posting proof? You know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Run along, little boy. Let the men talk.

[jacksonianmarch]

The posting fee goes into the payroll?

 

News to me, because it doesn't.

 

The sox committed $209 million to their team prior to 2007. That is not a debatable argument

[Gom]

I'll sum up my feelings like this:

 

A lot had to go right for the Yankees to win the WS, but a lot less than every other team in the league because of their financial advantage.

 

Because of that, I feel that the title is a bit hollow, but I;m a Red Sox fan so it probably doesn't mean much to any of you.

 

Valid points. Dipre could learn a lot from you.

[Dipre]

The sox committed $209 million to their team prior to 2007. That is not a debatable argument

 

I was arguing a point made by 26 to 6 in another thread. Read please.

 

Valid points. Dipre could learn a lot from you.

 

This is what has been said all along. Your stupidity is not even funny anymore.

[Dipre]

Would you like me to embarrass you further by posting proof? You know exactly what I'm talking about.

 

Run along, little boy. Let the men talk.

 

I'd love for you to try.

 

"Framing pitches". "Can't hit inside fastballs", "Robertson missed down in the zone and Hughes missed up (with 96+ heat".)

 

Please, take your best shot.

[Dipre]

Actually, Dipre, you are correct here. It is the fault of the system.

 

The Yankees buy their championships more than any other team. This is indisputable. Followed, in this last decade, by the Red Sox.

 

It's not just payroll. It's scouting as well. Is it really a surprise that the some of the best international stars are on the big market teams?

 

Where would Arnoldis Chapman go if he was eligible for the draft? What about Matsui or Matsuzaka? Smaller market teams cannot compete evenly. This has been the case since baseball began.

 

The Yankees did what they were supposed to do. Win within the rules. The problem isn't the Yankees, it is the system. Since my team benefits, personally, I do NOT want to see it change. Selfish? Yes. Fair play? Not really? Do I care? No.

 

At least I'm honest. However, what grates on any sensible Yankee fan's sensibilities is the majority of Red Sox Nation's blatant disregard of their own team doing the EXACT same thing, just to a lesser degree.

 

 

The quote function is so handy for calling people out on their ********.

[Dipre]

Actually, Dipre, you are correct here. It is the fault of the system.

 

The Yankees buy their championships more than any other team. This is indisputable.

 

The fact that i contend that the 2007 championship was not bought because the Sox did not spend triple the money than the second closest spender is a legit one.

 

In fact, i'll go ahead and tackle 2004 shortly.

[Dipre]

The sox committed $209 million to their team prior to 2007. That is not a debatable argument

 

The Cubs committed $210 million to their team prior to 2007. That is not a debatable argument.

[jacksonianmarch]

The fact that i contend that the 2007 championship was not bought because the Sox did not spend triple the money than the second closest spender is a legit one.

 

In fact, i'll go ahead and tackle 2004 shortly.

 

You continue to maintain that the sox did not buy their title. My f***ing god. Tell that to the Pirates fans who havent spent $209 million over 7 yrs let alone in one offseason. Its time to face the facts here Dipre.

[Dipre]

You continue to maintain that the sox did not buy their title. My f***ing god. Tell that to the Pirates fans who havent spent $209 million over 7 yrs let alone in one offseason. Its time to face the facts here Dipre.

 

See, here's my problem with saying the 2007 title was bought.

 

You'll notice i haven't touched the 2004 team. Why? Because the argument can easily be made that the team was a mercenary group with a common goal.

 

That is absolutely true.

 

My problem with 2007 however, is that the Sox got Drew, Matsuzaka and Lugo.

 

Matsuzaka was an investment to open the doors to the Japan market, but couldn't be considered a "Top FA" because he hadn't even played in MLB.

 

Drew was a good FA, but not one of the top FA's.

 

Lugo was a middle-tier SS who got massively overpaid for reasons beyond my comprehension.

 

Compare that team with those acquisitions to the 2004 Sox or 2009 Yankees please.

[Gom]

I'd love for you to try.

 

"Framing pitches". "Can't hit inside fastballs", "Robertson missed down in the zone and Hughes missed up (with 96+ heat".)

 

Please, take your best shot.

 

I will...just I have to get back to work, something you don't know much about. Later today or tomorrow.

 

There is a difference between opinion, and facts. Apparently, you don't know this difference. I'll be sure to point out to you in a day or so. You can have an opinion that can be wrong. However, when you lie and call out other people lying when they are quoting numbers from legit sites like baseball reference or ESPN....well...go outdoors and open your outhouse and look in the toilet. That's where your can find your ensuing credibility.

[Dipre]

I will...just I have to get back to work, something you don't know much about. Later today or tomorrow.

 

There is a difference between opinion, and facts. Apparently, you don't know this difference. I'll be sure to point out to you in a day or so. You can have an opinion that can be wrong. However, when you lie and call out other people lying when they are quoting numbers from legit sites like baseball reference or ESPN....well...go outdoors and open your outhouse and look in the toilet. That's where your can find your ensuing credibility.

 

Please take your best shot.

 

Now they're "opinions".

 

I'm telling you, your big mouth is writing a check your ass can't check.

[jacksonianmarch]

See, here's my problem with saying the 2007 title was bought.

 

You'll notice i haven't touched the 2004 team. Why? Because the argument can easily be made that the team was a mercenary group with a common goal.

 

That is absolutely true.

 

My problem with 2007 however, is that the Sox got Drew, Matsuzaka and Lugo.

 

Matsuzaka was an investment to open the doors to the Japan market, but couldn't be considered a "Top FA" because he hadn't even played in MLB.

 

Drew was a good FA, but not one of the top FA's.

 

Lugo was a middle-tier SS who got massively overpaid for reasons beyond my comprehension.

 

Compare that team with those acquisitions to the 2004 Sox or 2009 Yankees please.

 

 

Drew, DiceK and Lugo were the best available FAs at their position.

[yankees228]

I simply cannot believe that people are devaluing Major League Baseball championships. There are huge contributing factors (money), but it is so hard to win a championship, especially in this sport. Whether it's the 2007 Red Sox or the 2009 Yankees, both are tremendous accomplishments, and while money did play a role, it is extremely impressive nonetheless.

 

I'll tell you, in my opinion, what is rather ironic about this whole thing: Red Sox fans, judging by the content of their posts, forgetting how difficult it is to win a championship. This isn't a knock at the Red Sox, by the way. I could care less that they went 86 years without a title. I probably haven't chanted the numbers, "1918", in my entire life. But it speaks to how difficult it is to win a championship, and the fact that people are forgetting about that is amazing to me.

[TheMino007]

Its not that amazing when you spend $450 million and have a payroll of 210 million that by blows away any other team. It kind of taints it. The fact that that Yankees have the highest payroll and don't win, then have to spend $450 million to win, is well... pathetic. I guess there is a price now on how much it takes to buy a championship

[yankees228]

Its not that amazing when you spend $450 million and have a payroll of 210 million that by blows away any other team. It kind of taints it. The fact that that Yankees have the highest payroll and don't win' date=' then have to spend $450 million to win, is well... pathetic. I guess there is a price now on how much it takes to buy a championship[/quote']

 

You're so wrong. Whatever. It's not as impressive as a team with a low payroll winning it, but for you to dispute what I said, really shows that you have a lot of bias towards the Yankees or you just don't appreciate what it takes to win a championship. When you take that kind of stance, while making such definitive statements, your opinion is never going to change, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Dipre]

Drew' date=' DiceK and Lugo were the best available FAs at their position.[/quote']

 

Drew: Carlos Lee, Alfonso Soriano.

 

Lugo: Really?

 

Dice-K: Had he even played in the majors?

[Dipre]

You're so wrong. Whatever. It's not as impressive as a team with a low payroll winning it' date=' but for you to dispute what I said, really shows that you have a lot of bias towards the Yankees or you just don't appreciate what it takes to win a championship. When you take that kind of stance, while making such definitive statements, your opinion is never going to change, so we'll have to agree to disagree.[/quote']

 

Allow me to agree with Y228 here.

 

The crapshoot nature of the playoffs still makes winning the WS a daunting task, the fact that they spent the money stands, but calling their victory "pathetic" is a flat out textbook example of unadulterated bias.

 

You can say their championship was "bought". You can't say it was pathetic or unimpressive. That's simply not true.

[yankees228]

Allow me to agree with Y228 here.

 

The crapshoot nature of the playoffs still makes winning the WS a daunting task, the fact that they spent the money stands, but calling their victory "pathetic" is a flat out textbook example of unadulterated bias.

 

You can say their championship was "bought". You can't say it was pathetic or unimpressive. That's simply not true.

 

Thanks Dipre. You know that my contention, the entire time, really hasn't been about the financial aspect of the whole thing. I've admitted that the Yankees have an enormous financial advantage plenty of times. I just don't like hearing people devalue the championship. Like I said, I have no problem with stating that it's not as impressive as a low payroll team winning, not even close, but it's still an impressive accomplishment.

[Dipre]

Thanks Dipre. You know that my contention' date=' the entire time, really hasn't been about the financial aspect of the whole thing. I've admitted that the Yankees have an enormous financial advantage plenty of times. I just don't like hearing people devalue the championship. Like I said, I have no problem with stating that it's not as impressive as a low payroll team winning, not even close, but it's still an impressive accomplishment.[/quote']

 

I have never devalued the championship.

 

What i mean by "bought" is that it took a huge financial investment that no other team could even dream to make, and it shows the inadequacies of the current system.

 

Why that "opinion" had to turn into a bloodbath shitstorm is beyond me. The championship is legit, but the pieces that put them over the top could only be acquired in the same off-season by the Yankees.

[Dipre]

I blame the system, and i complain with legitimate evidence that occurences like this must be somehow stopped.

[yankees228]

I blame the system' date=' and i complain with legitimate evidence that occurences like this must be somehow stopped.[/quote']

 

What occurrence are you referring to? The team with the highest payroll winning the World Series, or a team signing the three biggest free agents in a single offseason?

[Rdsxmbnt]

You keep forgetting the 51 mil it took to talk with DiceK. If you are going to go by AAV on the 2007 FA bonanza for the sox....

 

DiceK $17.2 mil AAV (6 yrs and 103 mil overall)

Drew $14.0 mil AAV (5 yrs and 70 mil overall)

Lugo $9.0 mil AAV (4 yrs and 36 mil overall)

 

That's an AAV of $40.2 mil and an overall cost of $209 million.

 

Like I have said before, I know that the yankees bought the WS this yr. I am admitting it. But sox fans should not be denying that they did the same thing, on about half the scale, in 2007. At the same time, you could say that the sox were filling their team with complementary pieces for that $209 mil since they already had an ace and a #2 in Beckett and Schilling and that Drew and Lugo were brought in to be complementary pieces to Manny and Papi. For NY, they added a #3 hitter, an ace and their #2. So one could make the argument that NY needed to spend twice as much because they werent filling their lineup with complementary players, they were filling the crux of their team out.

 

So basically the Red Sox added some role players to fill out the secondary roles in the lineup while the Yankees added what basically amounts to the core of the team?

 

Drew was a sub .800 OPS hitter, Lugo below .650, and Matsuzaka a pretty decent #3.

 

Teixeira was a .950 OPS hitter, Sabathia a 19 game winner, and Burnett a solid #2/3 pitcher.

 

I don't think there is really a comparison here.

 

What the Red Sox did would be comparable to the Yankees adding Damon, Pettitte, and Swisher (you get the idea, good but secondary players).

 

What the Yankees did would be equivalent to the Red Sox adding Manny, Beckett, and Matsuzaka.

 

Again the Yankees basically bought the core of their team

[jacksonianmarch]

And the Red Sox didnt? Schilling and Manny were gotten with significant cash incentives, either by trade with money involved or by a FA contract. Beckett as well with the deal to take Lowell's "abysmal" contract. Cmon man, we can do this all day.

 

The Red Sox core in 2007 included...

 

3 hitter- Manny Ramirez- acquired for 20 mil a yr in FA

4 hitter- David Ortiz- scrap heap signing

Ace- Josh Beckett- gotten in a trade that had significant financial motives to it (read Mike Lowell)

#2- Schilling- gotten in a trade that had significant financial motives

Lowell or Drew- Lowell was a giveaway because his contract was too high, and Drew was bought

 

 

The Yankee core...

Derek Jeter- brought up through the farm

Tex- bought in 2009

ARod- acquired by trade for significant financial motives

CC- Bought in 2009

AJ- Bought in 2009

 

So, what we are saying is that the sox buying their guys a few yrs back means that it doesnt qualify as buying a championship? Bull s***. Just so happens that NY's championship occured right after they bought their guys.

[Dipre]

What occurrence are you referring to? The team with the highest payroll winning the World Series' date=' or a team signing the three biggest free agents in a single offseason?[/quote']

 

Not just signing the three biggest Free Agents, but adding a mid-market team's payroll in the process. It borders on insanity.

[jacksonianmarch]

I blame the system' date=' and i complain with legitimate evidence that occurences like this must be somehow stopped.[/quote']

 

You laughed at it for a few yrs initially and didnt have a problem with it when your team won something. But, now that NY had the last laugh IT IS THE BIGGEST DEAL SINCE THE INVENTION OF FLOATING DOORS! Cmon man. The sox have NOTHING to be crying about.

[Dipre]

You laughed at it for a few yrs initially and didnt have a problem with it when your team won something. But' date=' now that NY had the last laugh IT IS THE BIGGEST DEAL SINCE THE INVENTION OF FLOATING DOORS! Cmon man. The sox have NOTHING to be crying about.[/quote']

 

Did the Sox spend $450 million in FA's?

 

The Sox signed Foulke and traded for Schill.

 

You're full of ********.

[jacksonianmarch]

You keep trying to sway my POV by pointing out how the players were acquired. THE RED SOX BOUGHT THEIR PLAYERS FOR THE 2004 AND THE 2007 WORLD TITLE. DEAL WITH IT!

 

2007 WS team

Jason Varitek- acquired via trade while still minor leaguer, essentially home grown

Kevin Youkilis- through the farm

Dustin Pedroia- through the farm

Julio Lugo- Bought in 2007

Mike Lowell- Bought by Boston in Beckett trade in 2006

Manny Ramirez- Bought in 2001 for 160 million dollars

Coco Crisp- traded by Cleveland as he just started to get expensive

JD Drew- Bought in 2007

David Ortiz- scrap heap signing

Josh Beckett- traded for in heavily financially motivated move, ie bought by Boston

Curt Schilling- traded for in heavily financially motivated move, ie bought by Boston

Wakefield- scrap heap signing turned longest tenured red sox currently

DiceK- bought in 2007

Tavares- scrap heap signing, sucked

Lester- hardly made waves in 2007, but farm system

Papelbon- farm system

Timlin- bought prior to 2003

 

get the jist? The sox had a few home grown guys contributing, like NY did. But the core was bought along the way. Got it? Good

[Rdsxmbnt]

Personally I think there is a difference between signing players over time and signing 60% of your franchise players in a single offseason.

 

Manny signed SIX years prior the Red Sox World Championship but if we're going to count him as a bought player than he's is the only one from the Red Sox 2007 core. (We gave up two highly touted prospects for Beckett and Lowell was basically seen as a debit at this point. Schilling also took a large package of prospects to land).

 

On the other end of the spectrum is the Yankees who really only have Jeter as non-bought player of their core. As noted CC/AJ/Tex were all bought in one offseason for a whopping price of 450 mil, a price that'd be crazy to try to justify in terms of what other teams have done (because no team has even remotely came close to that). Throw in the 300mil FA Arod and that's basically 3/4 of a billion dollars of bought core players.

 

Again, no comparison here.

[Dipre]

You keep trying to sway my POV by pointing out how the players were acquired. THE RED SOX BOUGHT THEIR PLAYERS FOR THE 2004 AND THE 2007 WORLD TITLE. DEAL WITH IT!

 

2007 WS team

Jason Varitek- acquired via trade while still minor leaguer, essentially home grown

Kevin Youkilis- through the farm

Dustin Pedroia- through the farm

Julio Lugo- Bought in 2007

Mike Lowell- Bought by Boston in Beckett trade in 2006

Manny Ramirez- Bought in 2001 for 160 million dollars

Coco Crisp- traded by Cleveland as he just started to get expensive

JD Drew- Bought in 2007

David Ortiz- scrap heap signing

Josh Beckett- traded for in heavily financially motivated move, ie bought by Boston

Curt Schilling- traded for in heavily financially motivated move, ie bought by Boston

Wakefield- scrap heap signing turned longest tenured red sox currently

DiceK- bought in 2007

Tavares- scrap heap signing, sucked

Lester- hardly made waves in 2007, but farm system

Papelbon- farm system

Timlin- bought prior to 2003

 

get the jist? The sox had a few home grown guys contributing, like NY did. But the core was bought along the way. Got it? Good

 

You don't say?

 

When you can prove to me that the Sox tripled the spending of the next FA spender i'll give you 2007.

 

Which is not going to happen because it was a year in which FA contracts were booming, and the production of the 3 "Big" Fa signings by of the Sox is not even close to that Yanks' big 3.

 

The Sox signed what ended up being 3 role players to their WS run. The Yanks signed 3 key players.

 

DEAL WITH IT!