The Best Team Money Could Buy

[yankees228]

I'll try to make my thoughts on the matter clear, once more, point by point.

 

I think the Yankees have an enormous advantage over the other 29 teams in baseball.

 

I think their market has, in large part, helped to create this advantage.

 

I think, to some extent, they have helped to create this advantage by the incredible amount of success they had from 1996-2000.

 

I think it is much more impressive for a team with a lesser payroll to win than a team with a much larger payroll.

 

I think that, no matter what a team's financial resources are, winning a championship is an impressive and significant accomplishment.

[yankees228]

They aren't delegitimate. They are bought. They bought it completely within the rules.

 

Would you say that Mayor Bloomberg bought his initial election as NY's mayor? I would. Does that mean we should take it away from him? No. It does, however, leave him subject to the criticism of "fairness", the butt of jokes, and makes it evident that a better system should be put in place.

 

I agree with this, but when you say they bought their championship (while, in many ways, it's true) you're also taking credit away from the players who performed on the field.

[Paradisecity]

 

I think that, no matter what a team's financial resources are, winning a championship is an impressive and significant accomplishment.

 

 

This is where you lose me, personally. I find nothing impressive about that team winning.

[Paradisecity]

I agree with this' date=' but when you say they bought their championship (while, in many ways, it's true) you're also taking credit away from the players who performed on the field.[/quote']

 

 

The players performed right around their expectations. Is that impressive? No, its expected.

[yankees228]

The players performed right around their expectations. Is that impressive? No' date=' its expected.[/quote']

 

Actually, many of the players outperformed their expectations, or performed in the face of a great deal of question marks. On this list I would include:

 

-Derek Jeter

-Johnny Damon

-Alex Rodriguez

-Hideki Matsui

-Jorge Posada

-Nick Swisher

-Andy Pettitte (second half and postseason)

-Mariano Rivera

-Phil Hughes

-David Robertson

-Demaso Marte (postseason)

[yankees228]

This is where you lose me' date=' personally. I find nothing impressive about that team winning.[/quote']

 

We'll have to agree to disagree then. To me, winning 114/177 games is impressive, especially when you include in that victories in three short series (which is very difficult in baseball, even if you do have the best team).

[Paradisecity]

I wish you were one of my love interests, then, because you are easily impressed.

 

I would be outperforming my expectations all the time.

[schillingouttheks]

But what you have to understand is that 100+ win seasons and a world series title were expected of the Yankees because of how they spend their money. I'm not impressed by a team winning a world series that can spend half a billion dollars in one off-season.

 

If anything, the Yankees not winning the world series would have been a bigger failure than it was impressive that they won it, if at all.

[TedWilliams101]

Would you be impressed if the NFL assembled an All-Pro or HOF team, without any cap, that blew through the league to 19-0 and won the Superbowl? No, you would think it was pretty damned unfair.

[yankees228]

I wish you were one of my love interests, then, because you are easily impressed.

 

I would be outperforming my expectations all the time.

 

You don't acknowledge that all those players (except for maybe Rivera) outperformed their expectations in some ways? Going into the season, especially offensively, there were many people who thought the Yankees were flawed.

[yankees228]

But what you have to understand is that 100+ win seasons and a world series title were expected of the Yankees because of how they spend their money. I'm not impressed by a team winning a world series that can spend half a billion dollars in one off-season.

 

If anything, the Yankees not winning the world series would have been a bigger failure than it was impressive that they won it, if at all.

 

Maybe impressed is the wrong word. Expecting them to get to the playoffs is one thing, because you can plan for the large sample size. I understand that. But winning those three postseason series is incredibly difficult. The Yankees had proven that over the past eight years, and the Braves proved that before them. In my opinion, no matter what kind of team you have, winning those eleven games are one of the toughest things to do in all of sports.

[Cocos Disciples]

You don't acknowledge that all those players (except for maybe Rivera) outperformed their expectations in some ways? Going into the season' date=' especially offensively, there were many people who thought the Yankees were flawed.[/quote']

 

I don't think A-Rod did.

[yankees228]

I don't think A-Rod did.

 

He had hip surgery in March. It was reported at the time that he might miss up to four months. A-Rod has said numerous times that there were many instances where he wasn't too sure he was even going to be able to play this year. One tiny setback, and that might have been it for A-Rod for 2009, and it would have been it for the Yankees in 2009.

 

Considering that enormous question mark, to put up a slash line of .286/.402/.532, coupled with 30 home runs and 100 RBIs, I would say he outperformed general expectations.

[Cocos Disciples]

He had hip surgery in March. It was reported at the time that he might miss up to four months. A-Rod has said numerous times that there were many instances where he wasn't too sure he was even going to be able to play this year. One tiny setback, and that might have been it for A-Rod for 2009, and it would have been it for the Yankees in 2009.

 

Considering that enormous question mark, to put up a slash line of .286/.402/.532, coupled with 30 home runs and 100 RBIs, I would say he outperformed general expectations.

 

Yeah, I guess. I wasn't really thinking about his health question marks, but the original report said "could be sidelined until May". I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong because I very well may be, that the four months was only if he took surgery.

[yankees228]

Yeah' date=' I guess. I wasn't really thinking about his health question marks, but the original report said "could be sidelined until May". I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong because I very well may be, that the four months was only if he took surgery.[/quote']

 

No, you're correct, but, at the time, it seemed like there was a good possibility that he might. My point is that he was clearly dealing with a serious injury right before the season started, and, because of that, I believe he outperformed expectations, along with the other guys I mentioned (maybe not Rivera).

[Cocos Disciples]

No' date=' you're correct, but, at the time, it seemed like there was a good possibility that he might. My point is that he was clearly dealing with a serious injury right before the season started, and, because of that, I believe he outperformed expectations, along with the other guys I mentioned (maybe not Rivera).[/quote']

Fair enough. Expectations are subjective--he didn't outperform mine.

[TheKilo]

Time for a third team in New York. If there's that much revenue to go round, it should go round further.

 

Either that, or it's time to do what the NFL does, have the league claim the media rights for each team, and if the owners haven't lynched you yet, distribute that revenue more evenly.

 

There's no demand for a third team in NY. They need to do one of two things, it's pretty simple.

 

One, institute a salary cap of anywhere from $80-$95 million. This will never happen because the contracts already in play would have to be restructured and the players union would never, ever, ever let that happen.

 

Two, increase the penalty for going over the luxury tax. What the Yankees are paying now is a mere pittance to their overall revenues, and in no way is a deterrent to their spending. MLB should have the penalty be $5 for every $1 over the tax, or some factor like that. This has a much, much larger chance of passing because let's face it, only one team would be affected by it.

[yankees228]

Here's the other funny thing. Some of you guys are saying that the Yankees just did what you expected of them.

 

However, the facts speak to the contrary. In the postseason predictions thread, 13 people offered up who they thought would win each round. Only 3 of those 13 said the Yankees would win it. You guys might backtrack, and say you were just being optimistic, but facts are facts. Not to mention that some of the 10 didn't even pick the Red Sox over the Yankees, so it's not like you guys were just picking the Red Sox to win.

 

The one prediction that I really got a kick out of was PC's. Not only didn't he pick the Yankees to win it, but he specifically noted that, if the Angels and Yankees were to play each other, the Angels would win. Well, if I remember correctly, that was the American League Championship Series match up.

 

Source: http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-baseball-forum/13317-playoff-prediction-showdown.html

 

On top of that, we all know that most people were pretty split on who would win the World Series, once it was narrowed down to only two teams remaining.

[yankees228]

Now lets go back to the beginning of the season.

 

On this site 15 people offered up their predictions for what the MLB standings would look like at the end of the year. Only 4 of those people predicted the Yankees would win the division. 5 of those people predicted they wouldn't even make the playoffs.

 

BUT THEY JUST DID WHAT WE ALL EXPECTED!!!!!

 

Source: http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-baseball-forum/12083-predicting-standings.html

[TheKilo]

Here's the other funny thing. Some of you guys are saying that the Yankees just did what you expected of them.

 

However, the facts speak to the contrary. In the postseason predictions thread, 13 people offered up who they thought would win each round. Only 3 of those 13 said the Yankees would win it. You guys might backtrack, and say you were just being optimistic, but facts are facts. Not to mention that some of the 10 didn't even pick the Red Sox over the Yankees, so it's not like you guys were just picking the Red Sox to win.

 

The one prediction that I really got a kick out of was PC's. Not only didn't he pick the Yankees to win it, but he specifically noted that, if the Angels and Yankees were to play each other, the Angels would win. Well, if I remember correctly, that was the American League Championship Series match up.

 

Source: http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-baseball-forum/13317-playoff-prediction-showdown.html

 

On top of that, we all know that most people were pretty split on who would win the World Series, once it was narrowed down to only two teams remaining.

 

So, Red Sox fans picking against the Yankees is the basis for your evidence now?

[yankees228]

So' date=' Red Sox fans picking against the Yankees is the basis for your evidence now?[/quote']

 

People here are claiming that the Yankees just did what everyone expected them to do. That is completely, 100%, false. Not just on this site, but from a variety of different sources. Some people picked the Yankees, most definitely, but it was far from a general consensus that the Yankees would win the World Series this year, whether it was before the season (especially) or even at the beginning of the postseason (when the Yankees had established how they really were).

 

The Yankees have an enormous financial advantage (I feel like I've said that a million times). No other team comes close to it. I completely acknowledge.

 

Now, I think there are a few valid arguments that say the Yankees should be able to spend all this money. The first being that they make more money than everyone else. The second being that our society dictates that their spending is acceptable. I do realize, however, that there are just as valid counter-arguments to these, and the general argument against the Yankees is definitely a valid one. So, if you want, we can brush those aside. When we talk about the Yankees financial state, I have no problem saying, black and white, that they have an enormous advantage.

 

However, people have got to stop saying that there is nothing impressive about this championship because this is what everyone expected. That is just simply inaccurate, based on a couple points.

 

1. Many of the players (the ones I listed in a previous post) outperformed their expectations this year, sometimes by enormous margins.

 

2. Everyone did not pick the Yankees to win the World Series, so people need to stop acting like this was what everyone expected. The Yankees tallied a number of impressive accomplishments this year, some expected, some unexpected.

 

As a Yankee fan, looking back on the 2009 season, I admit that a large part of the reason why they won the World Series was because of their financial advantage. I can live with this. However, to disregard what they accomplished on the field, including winning those extremely difficult eleven games, is absolutely ridiculous. The Yankees money helped create this club, but the players still needed to perform on the field, and they did so in exceptional fashion.

 

EDIT: That's my overall response to the article, and all of your opinions on the 2009 Yankees.

[Dipre]

The premise of the argument has changed.

 

Premise: The Yankees' financial advantage over everybody else is unfair.

 

This premise is correct.

 

No need for further analysis.

[yankees228]

The premise of the argument has changed.

 

Premise: The Yankees' financial advantage over everybody else is unfair.

 

This premise is correct.

 

No need for further analysis.

 

That's fine, and, at this point, I'm not going to rebut that. But many people have said that this championship is unimpressive, because it was expected. I have a problem with that, because I feel like that's unfair.

[Dipre]

That's fine' date=' and, at this point, I'm not going to rebut that. But many people have said that this championship is unimpressive, because it was expected. I have a problem with that, because I feel like that's unfair.[/quote']

 

You can say it was bought.

 

But i think it was bought within the rules. It's the system's fault.

[Paradisecity]

Here's the other funny thing. Some of you guys are saying that the Yankees just did what you expected of them.

 

However, the facts speak to the contrary. In the postseason predictions thread, 13 people offered up who they thought would win each round. Only 3 of those 13 said the Yankees would win it. You guys might backtrack, and say you were just being optimistic, but facts are facts. Not to mention that some of the 10 didn't even pick the Red Sox over the Yankees, so it's not like you guys were just picking the Red Sox to win.

 

The one prediction that I really got a kick out of was PC's. Not only didn't he pick the Yankees to win it, but he specifically noted that, if the Angels and Yankees were to play each other, the Angels would win. Well, if I remember correctly, that was the American League Championship Series match up.

 

Source: http://www.talksox.com/forum/general-baseball-forum/13317-playoff-prediction-showdown.html

 

On top of that, we all know that most people were pretty split on who would win the World Series, once it was narrowed down to only two teams remaining.

 

 

 

I guess you missed the part where I said: "I think this should be the Yanks year"

 

 

I'm sure this was difficult to find, seeing how it was the first 7 words of the post, followed by a silly game involving points and picking different winners than others in order to win.

[yankees228]

I guess you missed the part where I said: "I think this should be the Yanks year"

 

 

I'm sure this was difficult to find, seeing how it was the first 7 words of the post, followed by a silly game involving points and picking different winners than others in order to win.

 

Right, should be the Yankees year, but, most importantly, you did not think they would win it. Yet you're claiming that they just did what was expected. That doesn't add up. If you're claiming that you didn't really think that would happen, so be it.

[Cliff]

I have a different take on this. Some people might agree or disagree. Personally, I love seeing homegrown players coming up through the system. To see Andy Pettitte pitching again, Rivera still throwing. Jeter at SS, the success of Cano. It pissed me off when Soriano left.. and so forth.. anyways, I'll continue.

 

The Yankees pay a boatload for Jeter, Rivera, Posada and Pettitte. They also pay a boatload for A-Rod, Tex, CC and Burnett.

 

This is what I think should happen, place a salary cap on free agents. The team that scouts & drafts a player should be rewarded for doing so. Personally, I see no problem with the Yankees paying what they do to keep their homegrown talent. They scouted them, drafted them, signed them, developed them. They should be allowed to pay what they have to in order to keep their talent.

 

In recent years, the Yankees have been holding onto that talent. The A's on the otherhand, along with the Rays, Pirates & Marlins... do not.. whose decision is that? They trade away that talent without putting forth any effort into keeping them. Its not like the owners are hurting for cash.. it goes right to their pocket.

 

Putting a cap on free agent spending will allow teams to spend less in order to keep their own talent, and it'll also force teams to hold onto and develop their own talent. I hate seeing different teams year in and year out.. I hate when people get traded, I'm not a fan of change. ;p

[Cliff]

To add into things a bit further, last year I was really excited about how things were going for the Yankees. Ian Kennedy, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes.. thinking of those three reminded me of the Big 3 for the A's. ;p We also had Chien-Ming Wang. Can't forget Pettitte.. thats five potential starting pitchers all from the farm system. Ah well.. winning it with those five I'll atleast admit wouldve been more satisfying ..

[Paradisecity]

Right' date=' should be the Yankees year, but, most importantly, you did not think they would win it. Yet you're claiming that they just did what was expected. That doesn't add up. If you're claiming that you didn't really think that would happen, so be it.[/quote']

 

Have you ever picked a basketball pool?

 

Do you have a concept of how these things work?

 

Last March, I picked Kansas in my final four. Did I believe Kansas had the best chance to make the final four? No. I believed that their were so many people picking similar brackets in my small office that if Kansas had made the final four, I would have won my bracket (and this was true).

 

The fact that you are using a game we played involving a point system to determine a winner as evidence that the yankees exceeded expectations is laughable. You are trying to assign quantitative measures to everyone's (including your own) quite qualitative opinions.

 

 

Yankee228 - who did you pick to win the world series before/after the regular season? I know who I picked, and I know who the oddsmakers picked, and I know that it wasn't the Red Sox.

[Dojji]

There's no demand for a third team in NY.

 

The tremendous amount of revenue the Yankees take in convinces me otherwise. Neither do their ticket prices. If they can charge THAT and still fill their taxpayer's boondoggle of a stadium, there's money and demand enough to go around.

 

They need to do one of two things, it's pretty simple.

 

One, institute a salary cap of anywhere from $80-$95 million. This will never happen because the contracts already in play would have to be restructured and the players union would never, ever, ever let that happen.

 

I'd say $100M. It's a good round number and remember we're talking about a maximum. But yeah, I agree it should happen, and I agree it won't.

 

Two, increase the penalty for going over the luxury tax. What the Yankees are paying now is a mere pittance to their overall revenues, and in no way is a deterrent to their spending. MLB should have the penalty be $5 for every $1 over the tax, or some factor like that. This has a much, much larger chance of passing because let's face it, only one team would be affected by it.

 

Throw in a dramatic lowering of the luxtax threshhold (1.5x the league's average payroll) and an exponential penalty for going dramatically over it and I'm on board. That way the Yankees can't complain about being singled out, and yet their offense-to-common-decency salary structure is going to mean the Steinbrenners are paying through the ears.