New York Yankees 2010 offseason thread

[yankees228]

The problem with offering Damon arbitration is that he might accept.

 

Well, I think that could be good and bad. They would have to overpay for him over for that one year, but at least they would get their wish of being able to take it year to year with him. I wouldn't be too disappointed if Damon ended up accepting arbitration.

 

Also keep in mind that Boras is literally going to do everything he possibly can to find Damon a multi-year deal.

[Gom]

Boras got killed last year with his non-superstars if I remember correctly.

[yankees228]

Boras got killed last year with his non-superstars if I remember correctly.

 

Yeah, who knows how the market will shape up this year. We'll see how he plays it. I still contend that Damon accepting arbitration wouldn't be the worst thing for the Yankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

One of the sportswriters (see mlbtraderumors.com) continues to postulate that the Yankees will end up with Granderson. And its interesting how they postulate it. That by taking Magglio Ordonez' 18 mil 1 yr contract that Granderson could come on the cheap. Ordonez could be the DH with Granderson sliding into CF and Melky, Gardner or Ajax could slide into LF. Interesting, but I dont think it happens

[yankees228]

One of the sportswriters (see mlbtraderumors.com) continues to postulate that the Yankees will end up with Granderson. And its interesting how they postulate it. That by taking Magglio Ordonez' 18 mil 1 yr contract that Granderson could come on the cheap. Ordonez could be the DH with Granderson sliding into CF and Melky' date=' Gardner or Ajax could slide into LF. Interesting, but I dont think it happens[/quote']

 

It's definitely an option. I just don't think they should count on Granderson to be an everyday player considering his splits.

[jacksonianmarch]

his lefty splits are terrible.

[Gom]

I am not about going after strikeout players. You saw what happens to them in the playoffs. Granderson may help you get there, but he'll be useless once you get there.

[yankees228]

I am not about going after strikeout players. You saw what happens to them in the playoffs. Granderson may help you get there' date=' but he'll be useless once you get there.[/quote']

 

I don't think you can just lump all hitters with high strikeout totals together. Take A-Rod for instance. He had an incredible postseason, but his strikeout numbers are extremely high.

 

With that being said, as I mentioned above, I don't think they should acquire Granderson, simply because it'll cost too much for a guy who is essentially a platoon player.

[Keeper]

Wow, I did not realize Granderson was so bad against lefties. Just checked the splits.

[yankees228]

Wow' date=' I did not realize Granderson was so bad against lefties. Just checked the splits.[/quote']

 

Yup, I didn't realize it either, but there was a link from Keith Law on mlbtraderumors which discusses how he should be a platoon player.

[Gom]

Plus, to get Granderson, you'd probably have to take Magglio as well. Why trade ANYONE when you can bring back Damon and Matsui...for no prospects...and less money....and they outperformed that duo last year.

 

Laughable. Or as my favorite cheeseburger maker says....

 

Hilarious.

[jacksonianmarch]

The only big thing about Granderson is that he offers good defense in CF as well as 30 homer and 20+SB potential. His splits are alarming, I do agree with that. And taking on $18 mil of Magglio would suck. Its just an idea, but I would rather see us retain our guys than get that duo.

[Dipre]

Plus, to get Granderson, you'd probably have to take Magglio as well. Why trade ANYONE when you can bring back Damon and Matsui...for no prospects...and less money....and they outperformed that duo last year.

 

Laughable. Or as my favorite cheeseburger maker says....

 

Hilarious.

 

Glad to see my favorite taxi driver stealing a page from my book.

[TheMino007]

The Yanks could trade Jackson + a couple of lesser prospects for Granderson. Its interesting, there is a lot of good and bad for him. His numbers could be trending down, but if you put him in Yankee Stadium, his home run numbers will go way up I mean look at this:

http://http://www.hittrackeronline.com/parks/Granderson_Curtis_2009_scatter.jpg

He is already hitting about 30 home runs a year in Detroit, image him in Yankee Stadium? He's only owed $23.75 Million through 2012, with a $13M option for 2013.

 

Problem is though the guy can't hit lefties, he hit .183 last year with a .245 OBP and a .485 OPS against lefties last year. You would have to bench him against lefties, but you could throw out Melky vs. lefties. Guy also can't hit offspeed stuff. He's a .300+ hitter facing fastballs but vs. curves/sliders he hovers around .200. He hits .240 vs. changeups. Once pitchers realize that he can't hit anything but fastballs, Granderson is in trouble.

[Dipre]

The Yanks could trade Jackson + a couple of lesser prospects for Granderson. Its interesting, there is a lot of good and bad for him. His numbers could be trending down, but if you put him in Yankee Stadium, his home run numbers will go way up I mean look at this:

http://http://www.hittrackeronline.com/parks/Granderson_Curtis_2009_scatter.jpg

He is already hitting about 30 home runs a year in Detroit, image him in Yankee Stadium? He's only owed $23.75 Million through 2012, with a $13M option for 2013.

 

Problem is though the guy can't hit lefties, he hit .183 last year with a .245 OBP and a .485 OPS against lefties last year. You would have to bench him against lefties, but you could throw out Melky vs. lefties. Guy also can't hit offspeed stuff. He's a .300+ hitter facing fastballs but vs. curves/sliders he hovers around .200. He hits .240 vs. changeups. Once pitchers realize that he can't hit anything but fastballs, Granderson is in trouble.

 

Jackson + for a platoon player?

 

Thanks but no thanks.

[jacksonianmarch]

I was reading a well thought out article from mlbtraderumors.com. They were talking about keeping Damon in LF, signing Mike Cameron for CF and kicking the tires on Nick Johnson as a DH/1B for 2 seasons. That would free Melky up to be trade bait and Gardner up to be the 4th OFer. That would leave the lineup at...

 

1. Jeter SS

2. Damon LF

3. Teixeira 1B

4. Rodriguez 3B

5. Posada C

6. Johnson DH

7. Cameron CF

8. Cano 2B

9. Swisher RF

 

And, assuming it takes about 8 mil to lock up Damon and another 8 mil to lockup Cameron and probably 5-6 mil for Johnson, you can make those upgrades without spedning more money than what is already coming off the books from Damon's prior contract and Matsui's contract. That will free up 4 million from just those two guys, then 6 mil from both Wang and Nady would get the savings down to $16 mil. Seeing as Pettitte made $12 mil last yr, he probably wouldnt get more than that on the open market, so that plan would bring back Pettitte, fill out the lineup while improving over CF defensively and offensively and fill the rotation while saving $16 mil. Thats also not a bad idea.

[Dipre]

I was reading a well thought out article from mlbtraderumors.com. They were talking about keeping Damon in LF, signing Mike Cameron for CF and kicking the tires on Nick Johnson as a DH/1B for 2 seasons. That would free Melky up to be trade bait and Gardner up to be the 4th OFer. That would leave the lineup at...

 

1. Jeter SS

2. Damon LF

3. Teixeira 1B

4. Rodriguez 3B

5. Posada C

6. Johnson DH

7. Cameron CF

8. Cano 2B

9. Swisher RF

 

And, assuming it takes about 8 mil to lock up Damon and another 8 mil to lockup Cameron and probably 5-6 mil for Johnson, you can make those upgrades without spedning more money than what is already coming off the books from Damon's prior contract and Matsui's contract. That will free up 4 million from just those two guys, then 6 mil from both Wang and Nady would get the savings down to $16 mil. Seeing as Pettitte made $12 mil last yr, he probably wouldnt get more than that on the open market, so that plan would bring back Pettitte, fill out the lineup while improving over CF defensively and offensively and fill the rotation while saving $16 mil. Thats also not a bad idea.

 

I have two gripes with that:

 

1) Johnsonn would tie up a DH spot the Yanks should try to keep as flexible as possible.

 

2) Cameron doesn't convince me as an everyday player anymore. At all.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jackson + for a platoon player?

 

Thanks but no thanks.

 

I agree Dipre. Jackson turns 23 yrs old in February while compiling a pretty nice resume and a lot of praise from opposing managers and scouts. I wouldnt go that far for Grandy. I think Granderson is a nice player and will probably be more of a homer threat than Jackson ever will be, but AJax is a better base stealer and has the makings of a very well rounder offensive player in both approach and line drive skills. I just dont think it is that much of an upgrade offensively to get Grandy for Jackson based upon what Jackson's ceiling and then his likelihood should be.

[Dipre]

I agree Dipre. Jackson turns 23 yrs old in February while compiling a pretty nice resume and a lot of praise from opposing managers and scouts. I wouldnt go that far for Grandy. I think Granderson is a nice player and will probably be more of a homer threat than Jackson ever will be' date=' but AJax is a better base stealer and has the makings of a very well rounder offensive player in both approach and line drive skills. I just dont think it is that much of an upgrade offensively to get Grandy for Jackson based upon what Jackson's ceiling and then his likelihood should be.[/quote']

 

This is the way i see it:

 

Granderson has seen a sharp decline of his platoon numbers the past couple of years, he's not exactly cheap, and would take a prospect (Jackson) who will probably be better than him in a couple years.

 

I've been a consistent proponent of the fact that homeruns don't make up for a vulnerable hitter who K's a ton. Specially if said hitter is not adept at getting on base at a respectable clip via the walk.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have two gripes with that:

 

1) Johnsonn would tie up a DH spot the Yanks should try to keep as flexible as possible.

 

2) Cameron doesn't convince me as an everyday player anymore. At all.

 

The tying up the DH position is a very valid argument. We have ARod who will need a rest once every 2 weeks up to once every week as he ages or more. We have Posada who will need to cede more time behind the plate. We have Jeter who will probably need some time out of the field due to his minor ailments. And if we had Damon, he will miss some time too with those bothersome calves. I agree there. The good thing about Johnson, if you will, is that he will allow you to platoon as the DH, meaning putting Posada or someone else in to get a breather when a lefty is on the hill.

 

In terms of Cameron, the stats seem to undermine your idea. His OPS was right around .800 again. He brings a lot more power than Cabrera does. He continues to walk at high rates. And his defense continues to be up with the best in the game. Here is an excerpt from the article

 

Cameron is a notoriously underrated player because of his .250 career batting average and high strikeout totals; he has struck out in 27.9 percent of his career plate appearances. However, he makes up for those deficiencies with his on-base skills (11.4 career BB%) and power (.198 career Isolated Power). His output has also been suppressed by unfavorable home hitting environments, but he has produced strong park-adjusted OPS+ totals over the past several seasons.

 

Here are his OPS+ numbers since 2005:

 

2005: 114

2006: 121

2007: 104

2008: 111

2009: 111

 

During that time span, Cameron has graded out 51.8 runs above average. Although he would regress moving over to the superior American League, hitting in Yankee Stadium would help.

 

Not only that, most of Cameron’s value comes from his outstanding outfield defense. He has been one of the top defensive center fielders in the majors the past two years, producing UZR/150 totals of 15.6 and 10.3 in 2008 and ’09, respectively. In large part due to the defense, he has produced 8.3 WAR (valued at just under $40-M) during that two-year span.

 

The Yankees have Austin Jackson coming up in the wings, but the team would be wise to offer Cameron a high annual salary and try to bring him in a one-year deal. Given his age and the perception that he is only a complementary piece, doing so should be plausible.

 

 

Difficult to argue with the numbers. But at his age, you could be right.

[Dipre]

The tying up the DH position is a very valid argument. We have ARod who will need a rest once every 2 weeks up to once every week as he ages or more. We have Posada who will need to cede more time behind the plate. We have Jeter who will probably need some time out of the field due to his minor ailments. And if we had Damon, he will miss some time too with those bothersome calves. I agree there. The good thing about Johnson, if you will, is that he will allow you to platoon as the DH, meaning putting Posada or someone else in to get a breather when a lefty is on the hill.

 

In terms of Cameron, the stats seem to undermine your idea. His OPS was right around .800 again. He brings a lot more power than Cabrera does. He continues to walk at high rates. And his defense continues to be up with the best in the game. Here is an excerpt from the article

 

 

 

Difficult to argue with the numbers. But at his age, you could be right.

 

I've checked his stats, and he's probably perfectly capable of putting up an .800 OPS in the AL East.

 

But what about, as you say, age-related decline and health?

[yankees228]

Jackson + for a platoon player?

 

Thanks but no thanks.

 

Exactly. It's not worth giving up that kind of package for a guy that you're going to need to sit against lefties.

[yankees228]

As you guys have already discussed, and I've mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't bring in a guy that is going to tie up the DH spot. That's why, if I'm the Yankees, I let Matsui walk. It's unfortunate, but considering this roster, they have to leave the DH spot open.

[jacksonianmarch]

I've checked his stats, and he's probably perfectly capable of putting up an .800 OPS in the AL East.

 

But what about, as you say, age-related decline and health?

 

The health part is obvious. That is why having a guy like Gardner around is great. Gardner is a plus defender. Hell, he put up an amazing UZR this yr and should continue to do so as long as he stays this fast. At the very least, if Cameron went down, Gardner could replicate his D.

[Dipre]

The health part is obvious. That is why having a guy like Gardner around is great. Gardner is a plus defender. Hell' date=' he put up an amazing UZR this yr and should continue to do so as long as he stays this fast. At the very least, if Cameron went down, Gardner could replicate his D.[/quote']

 

I just think the Yankees could acquire an option that would provide more certainty health-wise at the position, even if it has to be done via trade.

[jacksonianmarch]

I bet they could. It is all going to be based upon what that cost will be. Cameron is a stop-gap player, nothing more

[Dipre]

I bet they could. It is all going to be based upon what that cost will be. Cameron is a stop-gap player' date=' nothing more[/quote']

 

Well but i?d go for a healthy stopgap in that scenario.

 

Gardner could get exposed quick if forced to be a regular OF.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dunno Dipre. He was a starter for awhile and put up a pretty respectable line. Give the kid another yr and he could be a serviceable starter. He's like a less powerful Ellsbury who plays better D

[Dipre]

I dunno Dipre. He was a starter for awhile and put up a pretty respectable line. Give the kid another yr and he could be a serviceable starter. He's like a less powerful Ellsbury who plays better D

 

You know you're overvaluing him.

 

The role he has know is perfect, as a starter for a prolonged period, you know he'd be exposed. Even hiding him in the 9 spot.

 

Besides, there's no need to have this discussion if the Yanks get a solid option.

 

And about the Defense, Ellsbury had a down year, but how you can say with a straight face that Gardner "Plays better D" is beyond me.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gardner plays better D, all the objective ratings say so.