2009 College Basketball Thread

[YanksHater213]

I did forget to add in the conference tournaments, but still, I think you definitely need to look at the entire body of work, and not just a few games at the end of the year.

[msubulldogs21]

MSU didn't have a tournament resume. Plain and simple.

 

-They played three nonconference road games (2-1, one win was over a tourney team - Houston, who barely squeaked in by winning their conference)

-3-6 vs. tournament teams (beat Houston, Old Dominion, and Vandy).

-Their two signature games were losses to Kentucky. They had no signature wins.

 

That is definitely not a tournament team there.

 

Florida played a much better nonconference schedule, and was 3-4 vs tourney teams (beat FSU, Mich. State, and Tennessee - all at-large bids).

 

I totally agree we should have (and need to in the future) played a better non-con schedule. However, normally UCLA doesn't resemble a team you can throw together at the YMCA either. That was a bad break catching them on a really down year as we beat them by 20+ at their place.

 

Still, does the SEC tournament mean nothing? Apparently it does to the committee. They acted like what we did the last 3 days didn't even happen. We beat Florida, handled Vandy (a 4 seed), and were 0.1 seconds away from beating Kentucky. In fact, we should've beaten UK twice this year if not for some classic SEC officiating. Anyway, when it comes down to the last 5-6 bubble teams, I think just watching them play should tell you something, the "eye test" as the analysts say. Would you rather play Florida, Utah State, and Minnesota over Mississippi State in the NCAAT? I sure would think so given how well we played during the SECT.

[msubulldogs21]

I did forget to add in the conference tournaments' date=' but still, I think you definitely need to look at the entire body of work, and not just a few games at the end of the year.[/quote']

 

I think the committee gave too much weight to the first 5-10 games of the season in November/December and barely even factored in what happened in Championship Week. You can't ignore the early season games as those definitely matter, but you also can't just ignore last weekend and they pretty much did.

[italstallianion]

I will say that I thought the coach of the Virginia Tech team was very classy in his interview just after he found out his team didn't make it to the tournament. The ESPN anchor asked him, "Which schools when you found out they made the tournament instead of your team did you throw your hands up and say, 'We should have been in there ahead of them?'" And he simply said that he wasn't going to say anything because it wasn't his right to take away from the good feeling that coaches and players of those schools have, so he'll let the ESPN anchors do the talking for him.

 

That's far classier than anything I'd have done. I'd tell a few committee members to go fornicate themselves with a tire iron. Besides, the coach had a point. He said that the committee changes each year and that its requirements for the tournament change with it. He said that there needed to be a set requirement (ie out of conference schedule, road wins, conference wins) that was the key factor in determining the field so that teams can schedule accordingly. It seems that MSU would love that.

[YanksHater213]

msu:

 

You keep dwelling on these near losses to Kentucky. The committee doesn't look at near losses. A loss by 1 in OT is the same as a loss by 50. They were a bubble team last year, got hot as hell at the end of the year, won the tournament (IIRC), and lost first round to UW. The few days off between the end of conference tourneys and NCAA tourney pretty much halt all the momentum any team has and it's pretty much a level playing field.

 

And I think the committee did a good job this year in looking at a body of work as a whole and not putting any more importance over one part of the season than another.

[italstallianion]

You keep dwelling on these near losses to Kentucky. The committee doesn't look at near losses. A loss by 1 in OT is the same as a loss by 50. They were a bubble team last year, got hot as hell at the end of the year, won the tournament (IIRC), and lost first round to UW. The few days off between the end of conference tourneys and NCAA tourney pretty much halt all the momentum any team has and it's pretty much a level playing field.

 

And I think the committee did a good job this year in looking at a body of work as a whole and not putting any more importance over one part of the season than another.

 

 

That's not true. Committees generally look at close losses. Doug Gottlieb had an argument with this because he said that they should also look at close wins. Close losses factor into the eye test and are very much considered. It may have had a negligble effect this year due to this committee, but it is generally given fair weight.

[msubulldogs21]

msu:

 

You keep dwelling on these near losses to Kentucky. The committee doesn't look at near losses. A loss by 1 in OT is the same as a loss by 50.

 

Reason I've brought up the 2 heartbreakers against Kentucky is that I think they should be looked at in that we can play with the best in the nation. If Utah State played Kentucky they would get that ass stomped. (I feel we would run them too) I know we lost and that doesn't really do anything for us, but losing by 1 in OT is a lot more respectable than losing by 30+ and if the committee isn't considering those factors, I think they're wrong. That's just my opinion though.

[J-Beck]

Well this is dumb. Illinois got a #1 seed in NIT but we can't host the game because of friggin Cirque du Soleil going on at Assembly Hall. So now we have to play an away game because they said our other stadium on campus isn't acceptable... although we now have to go play in what is pretty much considered a high school gymnasium.

[See Red]

I don't think MSU's whole body of work is so much worse that their tournament performance in comparison to Florida's shouldn't push them over the top. In fact, they're nearly even in RPI, with Mississippi State having the edge. They technically split the season series, but MSU's neutral court win over Florida in a game of great significance is a great deal more impressive than Florida's home victory over MSU. Each of these teams were in a position where assumption was they would have to win games in the conference tourney to make it in -- and when all else is equal, what better way to decide which team is better than a head to head matchup that both teams needed to win? Mississippi State won that game and then proceeded to beat a ranked tournament team. They deserve to be in.

 

You say Florida's resume is more impressive... RPI suggests otherwise.

[msubulldogs21]

Mississippi State won that game and then proceeded to beat a ranked tournament team. They deserve to be in.

 

You say Florida's resume is more impressive... RPI suggests otherwise.

 

This is why our fan base was borderline psychotic yesterday being that we were screwed over so bad. I'm still pissed off, although obviously it's over and done with.

 

The NCAA can go to hell.

[See Red]

This is why our fan base was borderline psychotic yesterday being that we were screwed over so bad. I'm still pissed off, although obviously it's over and done with.

 

The NCAA can go to hell.

 

I'm with ya'll. I mean, there's argument's both ways, but the bottomline is that NCAA Basketball prides itself on having everything decided on the court... well, in a game that everybody assumed both teams needed to win, Mississippi State proved they were the better team on the court. Considering things were just about equal between the teams outside of that game, that should've been good enough.

[TheKilo]

I think the committee actually did a very, very good job this year. And while I can certainly sympathize with MSU not getting in, them being left out of the field is in no way shape or form any kind of egregious snub.

 

Illinois has even less of a dog in this fight, especially with the waxing Minnesota put on Purdue over the weekend. There was no chance of them getting in after that.

 

Super-long epic post with predictions to come.

[italstallianion]

I wonder if the Uconn women will get the #1 overall seed.

[TheKilo]

OK, we're going to change it up a bit this year. I'm going to go through round by round and pick one of the following categories:

 

Dark Horse - Seed lower than #5 most likely to make the S16

Upset Special (1st Rd)

Most Overrated Team - Must be a 4 or higher

Biggest Trap Game

Toughest Game to Pick

Region Winner

 

I've added a few categories not only to liven the discussion a little more but to also help a brother out with some of these picks. With UConn sucking wind this season it was really tough for me to get thrown into the college basketball season (not to mention all of the other stuff I had going on this winter).

 

So if other people want to throw up their own opinions on these categories, please do.

 

We'll start with the #1 overall seed and the Midwest Region, for Kansas:

 

Dark Horse - I have two for this region. Watch Georgia Tech, who just came off a deep run in the ACC tournament. They have more talent than a 10 seed but have been inconsistent this season. I like the way their bracket sets up if they can get by Oklahoma State in the 1st round. I think Ohio State is beatable even though they may have the best player in the tournament right now in Evan Turner. The second team to keep an eye on is SDSU...I don't think Tennessee is a very talented team and could be ripe for the picking, and then if they win that game they'll get Georgetown in the 2nd round. Georgetown is a good team but they turn the ball over quite a bit. SDSU might be able to take advantage of that.

 

Upset Special (1st Round) - I'll take SDSU over Tennessee for the reasons mentioned above.

 

Most Overrated Team - I think the committee overall did a very good job with the seeding in this region. I'm not sure if I completely buy Georgetown as a 3, their run the the BET notwithstanding. I had them pegged as a 4 so it wasn't that big of a deal.

 

Biggest Trap Game - Watch the 4/13 game. I'm VERY skeptical of Maryland because if Vasquez has an off night they could be in a lot of trouble. Houston had their improbable run in their conference tournament but they have an excellent coach and if they can find some way to slow Vasquez, Houston has a shot.

 

Toughest Game to Pick - I think this comes in the second round, where I have Michigan State meeting Maryland. I think Maryland will do enough to beat Houston but Michigan State is very dangerous, and they might have the best NCAA tournament coach in the field. As of now, I like Lucas and Izzo to beat Zasquez and Williams, but am going back and forth on this one. Very tough game.

 

Region Winner - Kansas. I don't see how Kansas doesn't make it to Indy, in all honesty. People have been saying Duke has the easiest road but I think it's Kansas. I think KU beats Georgetown in the E8 after Georgetown beats Evan Turner and Ohio State.

[suns]

Everyone says that Kansas has the hardest road to Indy but I don't see what is so hard about it.

[TheKilo]

Now we'll move to the East, with Kentucky as the #1 seed.

 

Dark Horse - I love Cornell's draw. I think Cornell would have closed the season in the top 25 if it wasn't for the loss to Penn. They are an excellent team who can really shoot the ball. I think they are woefully underseeded (as is Temple, shame this is a 1st round game). If Cornell shoots over 40%, I like them to beat Temple and then they have to beat either Wofford (1st time tourney team) or Wisconsin (overrated as a 4). I think Cornell makes it to the second weekend.

 

Upset Special - Cornell over Temple

 

Most Overrated Team - Wisconsin as the 4. Not quite sure what they did to deserve that seeding, especially over a team like Temple (who would have been my choice as this region's 3 seed, let alone 4).

 

Biggest Trap Game - It seems like everyone I have talked to LOVES Washington over Marquette after Washington won the Pac-10 tournament. Washington may be talented but I do not see where this sudden rush of optimism is coming from. Give me the tested team from the better conference who made a solid run in their own conference tournament.

 

*Disclaimer - I pick Marquette to go to the S16 every f***ing year. I don't know what my issue is.

 

Toughest Game to Pick - I have a few, Missouri/Clemson in Round 1, Marquette/New Mexico in Round 2, and a WVU/UK regional final, which leads me to...

 

Region Winner - Kentucky. Give me the best pro prospects and I'll take my chances. Wall and Cousins spit in the face of "inexperience" to take the 'Cats and Ashley Judd to Indy.

[TheKilo]

Let's go South, where Duke is the #1.

 

Dark Horse - Siena or ODU. ODU is a team that does everything well (I believe they are the leading offensive rebounding team in the country) and Siena is battle-tested with an easier road to the S16. Siena gets a Shell of what the Purdue team could have been and then either Texas A&M or USU in round 2.

 

Upset Special - ODU over Notre Dame and Siena over Purdue.

 

Most Overrated Team - Purdue. Without Hummel, they just don't have anyone that can score consistently. Although I am wary that everyone and their mother is picking Siena here because this Siena team isn't as good as the one that made that run last year....

 

Biggest Trap Game - Siena/Purdue. That phenomenon where EVERYONE picks an upset and then it doesn't happen? Yeah, serious vibes here.

 

Toughest Game to Pick - Again, I have a few of them here:

 

Texas A&M/Siena in Round 2

Richmond/ St Marys in Round 1

Baylor/Villanova in the Sweet 16

 

Region Winner - Here's where I go against chalk (not really, they are still a high seed). I just don't expect all #1s to make it this year. And since Duke has problems with athletic teams that can run and shoot, I'm hoping this team shocks the world in their home state in the regional final.

 

Baylor.

[TheKilo]

And finally, we go West, with Syracuse as the #1.

 

Dark Horse - UTEP. Like ODU, a team that does everything well. Character, the transfer from Louisville, could be a key difference for this team. I think they beat Butler fairly easily (Butler has no inside game to speak of) and then take care of business against Vanderbilt.

 

Upset Special - UTEP over Butler, Minnesota over Xavier

 

Most Overrated Team - Pittbsurgh as a 3. Pittsburgh is a good team with a great coach who always gets the most out of his players. Thing is, Dixon and Pitt's physical play doesn't always play so well in the tournament, and this Pitt team isn't as talented as the others that have been put on the floor the last few years.

 

And can someone explain how Xavier has a higher seed than Gonzaga?

 

Biggest Trap Game - Vanderbilt/Murray State. Murray State turns their opponents over exceedingly well and if they start to push their tempo onto Vanderbilt, look out. Interesting note, these schools are about 150 miles from each other and are playing their first round game in San Jose.

 

Toughest Game to Pick -

 

Syracuse/Gonzaga in Round 2

BYU/Florida (seriously)

Syracuse/Kansas State in the regional final...

 

Region Winner Syracuse. I know they closed the season 4-3, but for the first three months of the basketball season they were unquestionably one of the top 3 teams in the country. I love Boeheim as a coach and this team is so much more likeable without McNamara or Devendorf on it. I know no team has ever won a National Championship after losing their first game of their conference tournament, but like UConn last year, I expect Syracuse to go out West and make it to the Final Four.

[suns]

Cornell also has a 7 footer. There aren't many in the NCAA. He will be a tough one to guard.

[yankees228]

TK, as always, nicely done. Hopefully your posts can spark some solid debate, as, I'm sure most would agree, this is a great time of year to be a sports' fan.

 

I'm with you on three of your four regional winners (the three one seeds).

 

Syracuse, as you mentioned, finished slow, but they really remind me of the 2003 team. They can play inside, the point guard is young, but solid, and they have a go to player (Wesley Johnson isn't Carmelo, but he is a special player). They're well coached, and the zone, for most of the year, has looked fantastic.

 

Kansas is experienced with Collins and Aldrich, and with Morris and Taylor contributing on both ends, I feel like they'll take advantage of their easy road (which you also mentioned).

 

Kentucky really scares me, when you consider all the close games they play, the fact that they struggle at times in the half court, and the off nights that Cousins has from time to time. But, as you alluded to, it's hard to pick against all that talent, and I'm just not high enough on WVU to pick the upset.

 

Now, I'm sure I'm in the same boat as most people, in that I'm having trouble with the South. Clearly this comes from the fact that most people probably view Duke as the weakest number one, and, at this point, no one trusts Duke in the tournament (including myself). Baylor-Villanova probably represents the most intriguing game in the region, and when you consider how Villanova finished the year, and the way Baylor has played against the toughest competition in the Big 12, conventional wisdom would probably say to pick Baylor.

 

But in the end, when you're talking about two teams who play at similar levels (in my opinion), I have a hard time picking against the best player on the floor. I feel the same way about a potential Ohio State-Georgetown matchup.

[italstallianion]

In addition, a lot of teams that Syracuse will be facing haven't seen the 2-3 zone with the length and athleticism that Syracuse possesses. It's hard to defend something you haven't seen before.

[suns]

Is there a crowd limit for NIT games?

[Spudboy]

Is there a crowd limit for NIT games?

 

 

I'd say the capacity of the venue.

[suns]

 

I'd say the capacity of the venue.

 

How isn't Uconn filling their stadium?

[italstallianion]

How isn't Uconn filling their stadium?

 

 

Because it's an NIT game. Nobody cares about the NIT. Calhoun at one point wanted to decline the invitation to the tournament all together, and some of the players don't even care. It's the NIT; the unwanted retarded cousin of the NCAA Tournament. I'd bet that the Women's Basketball tournament gets more viewers than the NIT.

[suns]

Because it's an NIT game. Nobody cares about the NIT. Calhoun at one point wanted to decline the invitation to the tournament all together' date=' and some of the players don't even care. It's the NIT; the unwanted retarded cousin of the NCAA Tournament. I'd bet that the Women's Basketball tournament gets more viewers than the NIT.[/quote']

 

Do you remember the game at memorial colesium last year?

[msubulldogs21]

Just got a chance to read through all this but good stuff Kilo. I had several of the same upset picks.

 

Final Four: Kansas, Syracuse, West Virginia, Duke

 

I have Kansas over West Virginia in the title game. I also don't necessarily think Duke is that much better than any of their teams they've had the last several years, but they got a really favorable bracket and I have them barely edging Baylor in the Elite Eight.

 

My first round upsets:

 

SDSU over Tennessee

UTEP over Butler (UTEP to the Sweet 16)

Siena over Purdue (tough call)

Cornell over Temple (I hate these two have to face each other)

 

I have a few other lower seeds winning but nothing that wouldn't surprise anybody.

[yeszir]

I just randomly guessed on a bracket on ESPN.com. I steered clear of the work pool, I would be wasting $10.

[Jasonbay44]

Nova down by 6 at halftime, that would screw up my bracket so much if that stands.

[J-Beck]

Well Notre Dame lost 51-50 in the first game of the day and Florida and BYU are in OT.

 

My bracket is probably going to be awful this year.