Bay vs. Holliday

[yankees228]

All I know is what I see. Bay produced offensively' date=' made all the plays he was supposed to make, and was one of the two most valuable players on this team. Conversely, Holliday sucked in the AL and blew the playoffs for his team by hot-dogging it in the field.[/quote']

 

I don't understand how Holliday hot-dogged or styled on that line drive? A line drive right out an outfield is a tough play, and he got handcuffed (and he might have lost it in the towels). That's all I saw.

[Dipre]

I don't understand how Holliday hot-dogged or styled on that line drive? A line drive right out an outfield is a tough play' date=' and he got handcuffed (and he might have lost it in the towels). That's all I saw.[/quote']

 

Remember, rhet is a professional baseball player and a mind reader.

 

He knows when other players are hot dogging it.

[Spudboy]

I don't understand how Holliday hot-dogged or styled on that line drive? A line drive right out an outfield is a tough play' date=' and he got handcuffed (and he might have lost it in the towels). That's all I saw.[/quote']

 

Yup.

 

I haven't seen him play that much so I am not aware of what kind of defensive player he is.

 

I'm certainly not going to condemn him based on one high profile misplay.

[rhet]

Remember, rhet is a professional baseball player and a mind reader.

 

He knows when other players are hot dogging it.

 

Despite your troll-like response, I'll offer that all current players who use basket catches are hot dogs.

[yankees228]

Yup.

 

I haven't seen him play that much so I am not aware of what kind of defensive player he is.

 

I'm certainly not going to condemn him based on one high profile misplay.

 

Yup, I overlooked your post on the previous page. I never thought for a second that he was styling on that play.

[Spudboy]

Despite your troll-like response' date=' I'll offer that all current players who use basket catches are hot dogs.[/quote']

 

Lol.

[Dipre]

What's the best way to measure Holliday's defense? How many hot dog plays have blown playoff games?

 

Despite your troll-like response' date=' I'll offer that all current players who use basket catches are hot dogs.[/quote']

 

You get what you give?

 

And, LOL.

[rhet]

You get what you give?

 

And, LOL.

 

Dipre, I'm going to deviate from my usual discussion of sports and players for just a second here. If you consider me a troll, you don't know what the word means.

 

Now back to our regularly schedule program...

[Dipre]

Dipre, I'm going to deviate from my usual discussion of sports and players for just a second here. If you consider me a troll, you don't know what the word means.

 

Now back to our regularly schedule program...

 

I obviously didn't call you a troll, but i considered THAT a trollish respond.

 

I know fully well what a troll is, and 26 to 6 is the textbook definition of it.

 

Carry on.

[Spudboy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vI_KoyMIQ

 

Not the best video but it sure looks like he just misjudged it by running in too fast or too far. Maybe he just lost sight of the ball. He f***ed up.

 

Kind of looks like Bay there, too.

[Dipre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vI_KoyMIQ

 

Not the best video but it sure looks like he just misjudged it by running in to fast or too far. Maybe he just lost sight of the ball. He f***ed up.

 

Kind of looks like Bay there, too.

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[rhet]

As I read some of the responses here, I wonder how many posters actually watched Holliday in the field this year. He has become baseball's basket catch man. On the play he botched to cost his team a playoff game, he couldn't decide whether to just reach up and grab it or basket catch it Willie Mays style.

[yankees228]

As I read some of the responses here' date=' I wonder how many posters actually watched Holliday in the field this year. He has become baseball's basket catch man. On the play he botched to cost his team a playoff game, he couldn't decide whether to just reach up and grab it or basket catch it Willie Mays style.[/quote']

 

Couple things.

 

1. Do you think there's a legitimate possibility that he simply misjudged the ball, for whatever reason, and got handcuffed by it?

 

2. Can you find us any other examples of him being a "hot dog" in the field?

[rhet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-vI_KoyMIQ

 

Not the best video but it sure looks like he just misjudged it by running in too fast or too far. Maybe he just lost sight of the ball. He f***ed up.

 

Kind of looks like Bay there, too.

 

Except it was an error.

And Bay doesn't make errors.

[Dipre]

Couple things.

 

1. Do you think there's a legitimate possibility that he simply misjudged the ball, for whatever reason, and got handcuffed by it?

 

2. Can you find us any other examples of him being a "hot dog" in the field?

 

Already asked, we're not getting any.

[Dipre]

Except it was an error.

And Bay doesn't make errors.

 

Because misjudging a ball and letting it fly by you fora double does not count as an error.

[yankees228]

Ah, OK. I mean, I don't think that he hot dogged the line drive in question by any means. But if Rhet has other examples of him styling in the outfield, then his claims would hold some merit. If he doesn't have any, then I don't see how he can continue to stand behind his claims.

[rhet]

Couple things.

 

1. Do you think there's a legitimate possibility that he simply misjudged the ball, for whatever reason, and got handcuffed by it?

 

2. Can you find us any other examples of him being a "hot dog" in the field?

 

If you get a vid of that series, he basket caught several routine fly balls.

[rhet]

Because misjudging ball and letting it fly by you fora double does not count as an error.

 

Had Holliday done that, instead of making a styling error, nobody would hold it against him. Certainly not me.

[yankees228]

If you get a vid of that series' date=' he basket caught several routine fly balls.[/quote']

 

That may be, but I'm not the one making the claims, so I'm not going to go through the video. You have to understand that you can not expect your claims to hold a lot of water without supporting evidence. You're completely in the right to feel the way you do (obviously), but you just can't expect other people to see it the same way.

 

And, by the way, right or wrong, you do realize that Mays had a reason for catching it the way he did, right?

[Spudboy]

As I read some of the responses here' date=' I wonder how many posters actually watched Holliday in the field this year. He has become baseball's basket catch man. On the play he botched to cost his team a playoff game, he couldn't decide whether to just reach up and grab it or basket catch it Willie Mays style.[/quote']

 

I've stated that I did not see him play much. Only about 5-6 games.

 

You were asked up-thread if you had seen much of his play and you failed to respond.

Did you see any of his games in 2009? How many?

 

Your opinion would seem to be based on little substance.

 

I watched game 2 and saw the replay many times. He just misplayed the ball. Simple.

 

Does that make him a poor defensive outfielder? No. Does that make him a hot dog? No.

 

I don't care one way or another about Holliday. If anything, I hope he stays in St. Louis.

 

I too, have seen almost all of Bay's games with the Sox. Yes, he does make the plays that he should make. If the definition of such a play is a ball hit right at him or nearby. But watch closely, and he is clearly not a very good defender. This deficiency is magnified when he plays in larger venues.

 

I questioned Crespo's claim that Ellsbury was a mediocre defensive player. Guess what, I went to a game at Fenway this fall and saw Ellsbury make bad reads and breaks on balls hit to center. Crespo had a point. I saw the same level of play from Bay in the same game.

Even Reddick looked better defensively in real time.

 

Is Holliday any better? I have no idea since I've never really seen him play much.

 

But to label him a hot dog based one one bonehead play is just stupid.

[rhet]

Well, I checked and there just isn't much on Holliday on youtube, except for that error.

 

If you don't believe he hot dogs catches, you'll just have to watch him catch routine fly balls next year. Because it's not something you could miss if you're watching the game. It's a quck glove flick to a basket catch. He did it a few times in that Dodger series.

[Spudboy]

Well, I checked and there just isn't much on Holliday on youtube, except for that error.

 

If you don't believe he hot dogs catches, you'll just have to watch him catch routine fly balls next year. Because it's not something you could miss if you're watching the game. It's a quck glove flick to a basket catch. He did it a few times in that Dodger series.

 

Weak as water.

[Dipre]

I've stated that I did not see him play much. Only about 5-6 games.

 

You were asked up-thread if you had seen much of his play and you failed to respond.

Did you see any of his games in 2009? How many?

 

Your opinion would seem to be based on little substance.

 

I watched game 2 and saw the replay many times. He just misplayed the ball. Simple.

 

Does that make him a poor defensive outfielder? No. Does that make him a hot dog? No.

 

I don't care one way or another about Holliday. If anything, I hope he stays in St. Louis.

 

I too, have seen almost all of Bay's games with the Sox. Yes, he does make the plays that he should make. If the definition of such a play is a ball hit right at him or nearby. But watch closely, and he is clearly not a very good defender. This deficiency is magnified when he plays in larger venues.

 

I questioned Crespo's claim that Ellsbury was a mediocre defensive player. Guess what, I went to a game at Fenway this fall and saw Ellsbury make bad reads and breaks on balls hit to center. Crespo had a point. I saw the same level of play from Bay in the same game.

Even Reddick looked better defensively in real time.

 

Is Holliday any better? I have no idea since I've never really seen him play much.

 

But to label him a hot dog based one one bonehead play is just stupid.

 

Served.

 

Weak as water.

 

Double-served.

[rhet]

Weak as water.

 

I agree. Never watching Holliday catch a routine fly ball - while promoting him here as a good fielder - is weak. Please gentlemen, watch the games before commenting. You'll be amazed at what you're missing.

[ORS]

Watchezz teh gameezzz.

 

Is there anything more trite than this statement in arguments amongst baseball fans?

[Dipre]

I agree. Never watching Holliday catch a routine fly ball - while promoting him here as a good fielder - is weak. Please gentlemen' date=' watch the games before commenting. You'll be amazed at what you're missing.[/quote']

 

"Watch the games" = Typical response when it has been proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

And you have watched nearly nothing of Holliday.

 

So watch the games before making those statements, amirite?

[yankees228]

Well, Rhet, take this for what it's worth, but I just went back through all the games of the STL-LAD series. I used baseball reference to determine how many outs Holliday recorded on fly balls in all three games, and then watched each one with MLB.TV.

 

Game 1 - 0

Game 2 - 1 (3rd out of the bottom of the 7th off the bat of James Loney)

Game 3 - 2 (2nd out of the top of the 1st off the bat of Andre Ethier, 3rd out of the top of the 7th off the bat of Casey Blake)

 

He didn't do that basket catch on any of them.

[rhet]

Well, Rhet, take this for what it's worth, but I just went back through all the games of the STL-LAD series. I used baseball reference to determine how many outs Holliday recorded on fly balls in all three games, and then watched each one with MLB.TV.

 

Game 1 - 0

Game 2 - 1 (3rd out of the bottom of the 7th off the bat of James Loney)

Game 3 - 2 (2nd out of the top of the 1st off the bat of Andre Ethier, 3rd out of the top of the 7th off the bat of Casey Blake)

 

He didn't do that basket catch on any of them.

 

 

Can you post the links for the vid of each catch? Thks.

[yankees228]

Lol, I wouldn't lie over something so trivial. Regardless, I don't think you can watch them if you don't have an MLB.TV subscription.