Bay vs. Holliday

[SoxSport]

The usual media rush to judgement says Bay is gone from Boston. I wouldn't say so just yet. Lots of drama creation going on here by his agent. He's trying to max out his commission with the good graces of Bay, who also stands to gain--provided he signs with a team he really wants to play for.

 

Sure Bay can make a few mil more or add a year, but once he signs, he is stuck with that club for the length of the contract. Top dollar FAs don't have much mobility.

 

Contrary to most, I don't see much difference between Bay and Holliday. They are both primarily offensive players. Bay has proven he can hit AL pitching more than Holliday has. Holliday has Coors-inflated numbers and thrived hitting with Pujols last year. He is a year or so younger--I don't know if that is significant in terms of contract length. Both will sign their next contract for grossly inflated numbers approaching Yankee dollars given to Teixeira. Bay is hoping Boras will drive his value up, and Boras is hoping Bay will drive Holliday's value up..

 

I think both agents are playing a game here trying to use each other to drive the price up. And it will work. The trouble is the Red Sox don't play that game, so my guess is look for a platoon in LF next year in Boston. Maybe Gomes or Cameron with Hermida. Maybe a Beltre at 3B--or a trade of Buchholz et al for AdGon, which will trigger a signing of Lackey? Not signing Bay or Holliday would open up a lot of scenarios. I've always favored pitching over hitting, anyways, with a playoff format. That's really how the Yankees won it last year.

 

The Red Sox have to move fast here beyond the Bay-Holliday game before their options dry up.

[ORS]

If the Sox wouldn't dish out the $ Bay wanted' date=' why would they for Holliday, who will probably cost more?[/quote']

Do you really not know the answer to this question?

[a700hitter]

Do you really not know the answer to this question?

Would he ask it if he knew? If you don't want to answer his question, why do you feel it necessary to type out an insult? I thought that you are supposed to be the voice of reason. Start acting like it.

[CoachC.]

#mets wonder if bay will go to seattle but not too worried about boston (which wont go 5). id wonder about angels, too.

 

from heyman, nothing we didn't already know.

[ORS]

Would he ask it if he knew? If you don't want to answer his question' date=' why do you feel it necessary to type out an insult? I thought that you are supposed to be the voice of reason. Start acting like it.[/quote']

Maybe instead of overreacting, you'd allow me to determine if he's asking a rhetorical question. The answer is so blindingly obvious, and I'm trying to determine if he's pushing an agenda since there is little posting history to go on. Or would you prefer I assume something and overreact like you did?

[a700hitter]

Maybe instead of overreacting' date=' you'd allow me to determine if he's asking a rhetorical question. The answer is so blindingly obvious, and I'm trying to determine if he's pushing an agenda since there is little posting history to go on. Or would you prefer I assume something and overreact like you did?[/quote']If you wanted to determine that then how about saying, "I'm not sure if this is rhetorical, but if you want an answer I'll to tell you, or perhaps you could have taken the risk that it was a real question and just answer it. You chime in all the time with your thoughts and opinions without being asked specifically, so why did you need such clarification here? Overreaction by me? Not really. Call it a coachable moment for you. I am not amused by your all so subtle put downs. If you don't intend them as such, I am telling you that is how they come off in print. Maybe you need a slight tweak to your writing style.

[ORS]

Thanks, but I'm comfortable with my approach. When it comes to articulation, I need coaching from you like an HDTV needs steak sauce. And, you did overreact.

[a700hitter]

Thanks' date=' but I'm comfortable with my approach. When it comes to articulation, I need coaching from you like an HDTV needs steak sauce. And, you did overreact.[/quote']Sometimes you need to overreact to emphasize a point, and none of us ever stops needing coaching. We can all learn from everyone else, and even steak sauce like me, might have something to offer to your HDTV.

[jacksonianmarch]

Children, play nice.

 

So, it looks like Bay is a goner. Some team has apparently offered him 5 yrs and we all know that the sox are now the highest AAV for Bay. It doesnt even look like they are trying at all to retain him.

[yeszir]

Children, play nice.

 

So, it looks like Bay is a goner. Some team has apparently offered him 5 yrs and we all know that the sox are now the highest AAV for Bay. It doesnt even look like they are trying at all to retain him.

 

Where did you hear that some team offered him 5 years?

[jacksonianmarch]

[yeszir]

Let's start Twitter rumors. Cal Ripken considers comeback?

[example1]

The twittering, the articles and blogs all show Theo as being pretty guarded about the whole Bay situation and the talking that his agent is trying to do to get the Sox to up their offer.

 

What I find amazing is that credible reporters actually believed that the Sox were waffling back and forth on Bay vs. Holliday, or those who assumed that Bay would sign. It feel pretty confident that the Sox are gonig to make a very strong and aggressive run at Holliday and that Theo wants to be up there introducing the newest member of Red Sox nation with his big 5-6 year deal.

 

Bay and Holliday are not interchangable pieces. Holliday would have undoubtedly been Theo's preference in a trade of Manny Ramirez, and now he has the opportunity to get the better player. If the Yankees don't step in he's a Red Sox, IMO.

[a700hitter]

I don't trust Boras. He could jerk our chain again and Holliday signs somewhere else after we help drive up his price. It would be a near fatal kick in the balls to the 2010 team to miss out on both of them.

[rhet]

There's a huge difference in money between the two. In terms of contribution to winning, is Holliday worth 40-50% more?

[TheMino007]

Perhaps not, if the Sox would just grantee five years for Bay, he would be cheaper than Holliday. Then you can spend some money by trading for Miguel Cabrera

[ORS]

Where is the 40-50% more coming from? Just think about what that says. If Jason Bay signs for $16M/yr, then that suggests Holliday will get $24M/yr. I just don't see that happening. I could see $16M and $20M, which would be 25% more. Looking at WARP/WAR/etc, I see this as a justified expense.

[rhet]

40-50% more total dollar commitment.

 

Reported asking price is 6/120 and 5/80.

[ORS]

Oh, ok, but you asked about contribution to winning. Winning/losing is determined over the course of a season, not multiple seasons, so I went to the seasonal AAV. That said, given one extra year to contribute, I certainly think Holliday would be worth 50% more.

[rhet]

As an aside to the value question, why do you think the Sox are reluctant to go five years for Bay? He's young enough now to still be productive in year 5. He's not a high injury risk. And his body type holds up into his late 30s. So I'm wondering what the hangup is. Maybe just a negotiating ploy...

[TheMino007]

The Sox think there are some injury concerns with his shoulder.

[rhet]

The Sox think there are some injury concerns with his shoulder.

 

I just read an article about that now.

 

But is that why they won't go 5 years, but WILL go 4? Does that make sense?

[CoachC.]

An official from one team interested in free-agent outfielder Jason Bay said his club expects a decision from Bay this week.

 

[SoxSport]

As I said in the Lackey thread, I think if they sign Lackey they will go in a different direction from Bay-Holliday, and trade Buchholz for AdGon. Then they will move Youks to 3B and leave Boras holding the bag, as he did last year with them on Teixeira.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20091215mike_cameron_in_fold_jason_bay_likely_out/srvc=sports&position=also

 

Yankees have reached out to Bay's representatives

[jacksonianmarch]

and it begins. Jason Bay as the #5 hitter would be absolutely lethal in the yankee order.

 

1. Jeter

2. Granderson

3. Teixeira

4. Rodriguez

5. Bay

6. Posada

7. Cano

8. Swisher

9. Cabrera/Gardner/Miranda/Montero

 

Wowza. That lineup would be the balls

[jacksonianmarch]

Jason Bay may have f***ed himself here. The sox have officially signed off on him and the Yankees have said they have no interest long term. Bay might have to choose between 5 yrs in Flushing or a shorter deal to go to Seattle or the Bronx. Losing the sox and seeing the Angels fill their offensive hole with Matsui has severely limited his options

[BSN07]

Jason Bay may have f***ed himself here. The sox have officially signed off on him and the Yankees have said they have no interest long term. Bay might have to choose between 5 yrs in Flushing or a shorter deal to go to Seattle or the Bronx. Losing the sox and seeing the Angels fill their offensive hole with Matsui has severely limited his options

 

I agree he may have f'd himself here. SF I believe is willing to offer 5 years. But from what I read, Bay has no interest in playing there for some reason.

[riverside sluggers]

Cit Field, San Francisco and safeco park are all spacious parks. Hed be best served signing with Seattle, as they will have the option of making him the DH down the road

[Lester82]

Jason Bay may have f***ed himself here. The sox have officially signed off on him and the Yankees have said they have no interest long term. Bay might have to choose between 5 yrs in Flushing or a shorter deal to go to Seattle or the Bronx. Losing the sox and seeing the Angels fill their offensive hole with Matsui has severely limited his options

 

(LOL, This is kinda funny since you were just dreaming of him being a Yankee in the post before. )

 

Anyway I think the Yanks greatest need in 2010 will be another pitcher.

 

 

People got lulled into thinking it's all about the Bronx mashers after seeing what the Yanks did in the regular season on offense, particularly in that bandbox. The Yankees were able to get by on a 3-man rotation in their W.S. march (partially aided by too many off-days built in to the 2009 postseason) and.... receiving a superb year out of 37 year-old Andy Pettitte. These exact circumstances are simply not likely to repeat for the Yankees.

 

So forget Holliday, Bay. They just need another quality starting pitcher, depth.