Alex Gonzalez= Great Deal

[redsoxrules]

JJ hardy had a great year last year but he's sucking big dick this year

[Spudboy]

JJ hardy had a great year last year but he's sucking big dick this year

 

I was not going to say this, but yeah.

 

He has blown the goats.

 

In the minors.

 

Just what we need.

[TheKilo]

What is wrong with that? I don't understand everyone and there "AVG is so useless" arguement. Why must we overanalyze every freaking thing with all these ridculous stats? Some of us just look at things how they are, and don't feel like taking a f***ing college baseball stat course before we have to post on this board.

 

This isn't directly aimed at you Emmz, by the way.

 

What else are we going to do living in our mother's basements?

 

Seriously? OBP a ridiculous stat?

[Dipre]

What else are we going to do living in our mother's basements?

 

Seriously? OBP a ridiculous stat?

 

Of course it is.

 

How would a stat that relies on skill instead of luck and variables be legit?

 

Come on man, you're smarter than that!/sarcasm.

[TheKilo]

I have more than BA statistics. It's my own eyes watching Gonzo hit like he has been- doubles' date=' homeruns, singles. Seen them all. It could just be a coincidence that my sight and BA coincide.[/quote']

 

I love "watch the game" posts, with all my heart.

[BoSox21]

BHUT HE HITZ TEH .303!!!!! THE SPLENDID GONZO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111+++++

[PWNdroia]

I don't necessarily agree that Hardy is "better" (he has , from appearances, more pop). And is 26.

 

But I do think Gonzo is a viable alternative for starting SS IF the Sox are not able to SUBSTANTIALLY upgrade the position in the off season.

 

Carry on.

 

Well, he's horrible this year, but if you look at his 07 and 08 stats, Hardy has been a better hitter. I don't think he's the answer though at SS. I'm fine with Gonzo for this season, maybe next year. We'll see. But so far this year, it's been an awesome deal.

[Dojji]

I was not going to say this, but yeah.

 

He has blown the goats.

 

In the minors.

 

Just what we need.

 

What kind of year did Gonzo have last year?

 

Oh yeah. He didn't. Because he was hurt for the entire freaking season.

 

Or did we forget that there might be a reason we got Gonzalez and gave NOTHING back. Right, because he's a mediocre at best shorstop whose only claim to major league competency is average range at shortstop.

 

Forget Hardy. Jed Lowrie by the same metric blows both of them out of the water.

 

Gonzo is only an upgrade to us because a combination of injuries and total suckage left us better off not having a shortstop on the field at all than trotting out anyone we had left. He's a good option for nothing at all. He's less than mediocre offensively over his career, and defensively he's only decent, not great, and that only because he has good reflexes.

 

I respect him for being not-quite-a-total-waste-of-a-roster-spot this year for us, but I'd rather make a deal for Cristian Guzman than see him back.

[Dipre]

What kind of year did Gonzo have last year?

 

Oh yeah. He didn't. Because he was hurt for the entire freaking season.

 

Or did we forget that there might be a reason we got Gonzalez and gave NOTHING back. Right, because he's a mediocre at best shorstop whose only claim to major league competency is average range at shortstop.

 

Forget Hardy. Jed Lowrie by the same metric blows both of them out of the water.

 

Gonzo is only an upgrade to us because a combination of injuries and total suckage left us better off not having a shortstop on the field at all than trotting out anyone we had left. He's a good option for nothing at all. I respect him for being not-quite-a-total-waste-of-a-roster-spot this year for us, but I'd rather make a deal for Cristian Guzman than see him back.

 

You just agreed with his entire point about Hardy.

[Dojji]

Hardy at his worst > Gonzo at his best.

[Dipre]

Hardy at his worst > Gonzo at his best.

 

He's talking about options.

 

He thinks that either we break the bank for a superstar or give Lowrie another shot.

 

And you don't have to clarify that to me, i'm all for getting Hardy if possible or what, you think i'm stupid?

 

Have you read any of my posts in this thread?

[Dojji]

I posted that to stop Spuddy from piggybacking on your post.

 

I don't think you can just give the job to Lowrie. And I love Lowrie and think he'll earn his due sooner rather than later. the whole long term wrist injury thing is scaring me off from counting on him as an immediate long term option at SS until he's proven he is healthy again.

 

"Superstar" means "Hanley," and as tempting as that is, I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay what it takes to get him.

 

You get Hardy if you can do it for a reasonable price, and then you play Hardy. If he doesn't work out, you play Lowrie. If both fail, you probably will still be able to find Gonzo or someone like him in the second half of the year.

[Dipre]

I posted that to stop Spuddy from piggybacking on your post.

 

I don't think you can just give the job to Lowrie. And I love Lowrie and think he'll earn his due sooner rather than later. the whole long term wrist injury thing is scaring me off from counting on him as an immediate long term option at SS until he's proven he is healthy again.

 

"Superstar" means "Hanley," and as tempting as that is, I'm not sure I'd be willing to pay what it takes to get him.

 

You get Hardy if you can do it for a reasonable price, and then you play Hardy. If he doesn't work out, you play Lowrie. If both fail, you probably will still be able to find Gonzo or someone like him in the second half of the year.

 

What the f*** is that supposed to mean?

[Cocos Disciples]

What the f*** is that supposed to mean?

 

"piggybacking on your post" has to be innuendo, right?

[redsoxrules]

What kind of year did Gonzo have last year?

 

Oh yeah. He didn't. Because he was hurt for the entire freaking season.

 

Or did we forget that there might be a reason we got Gonzalez and gave NOTHING back. Right, because he's a mediocre at best shorstop whose only claim to major league competency is average range at shortstop.

 

Forget Hardy. Jed Lowrie by the same metric blows both of them out of the water.

 

Gonzo is only an upgrade to us because a combination of injuries and total suckage left us better off not having a shortstop on the field at all than trotting out anyone we had left. He's a good option for nothing at all. He's less than mediocre offensively over his career, and defensively he's only decent, not great, and that only because he has good reflexes.

 

I respect him for being not-quite-a-total-waste-of-a-roster-spot this year for us, but I'd rather make a deal for Cristian Guzman than see him back.

 

too bad he cant stay on the field

[Emmz]

Well' date=' he's horrible this year, but if you look at his 07 and 08 stats, Hardy has been a better hitter. I don't think he's the answer though at SS. I'm fine with Gonzo for this season, maybe next year. We'll see. But so far this year, it's been an awesome deal.[/quote']

 

You've got to be joking. You're in favor of Gonzo at short, but you're not in favor of Hardy? This is the last time I will say this to you, btw: Hardy is superior to Gonzo in every way.

[Dipre]

"piggybacking on your post" has to be innuendo' date=' right?[/quote']

 

The man might have a thing for ghey porn perhaps?

 

That type of preferences always end up coming out.

[PWNdroia]

You've got to be joking. You're in favor of Gonzo at short' date=' but you're not in favor of Hardy? This is the last time I will say this to you, btw: Hardy is superior to Gonzo in every way.[/quote']

 

I said I would take Hardy over Gonzo if he puts up numbers like 07 and 08. Please read all my posts. I said Hardy is the better player based on former stats (except for this year I heard he's doing bad). Nonetheless, it's hard to tell and Hardy is horrible this year. Which is why he may not be the answer.

 

I just think Hardy will be hard to get and I don't mind keeping Gonzo if we can't find another option. He's not THAT bad.

[RWTP24]

Holy hell, now there are talks about Hardy??

 

He sucks! What is he batting? .230? Hell, the rest of his stats aren't very good. That is just as bad as AGon has been before returning to the Sox. I would much rather stick with Jed.

[PWNdroia]

Holy hell, now there are talks about Hardy??

 

He sucks! What is he batting? .230? Hell, the rest of his stats aren't very good. That is just as bad as AGon has been before returning to the Sox. I would much rather stick with Jed.

 

My point exactly. And people are thinking I'm nuts for wanting to keep A-Gon. In their defense, Hardy did have two exceptional years (07 and 08), but other than that, he hasn't been very good.

 

But I still really do have a bit of faith in Lowrie to do better. He just can't keep on getting injured... it's breaking his career.

[RWTP24]

My point exactly. And people are thinking I'm nuts for wanting to keep A-Gon. In their defense, Hardy did have two exceptional years (07 and 08), but other than that, he hasn't been very good.

 

But I still really do have a bit of faith in Lowrie to do better. He just can't keep on getting injured... it's breaking his career.

 

Yes he did, but we should remember it was in the NL central and not the AL east. Also, like we have both said, he is sucking now. Why should the Sox risk it when we have two already.

[Dipre]

Hardy at his worst >>>>>>>>Gonzo at his best.

 

Both defensively and offensively.

[RWTP24]

Hardy at his worst >>>>>>>>Gonzo at his best.

 

Both defensively and offensively.

 

So what are you getting at?

[BSN07]

My point exactly. And people are thinking I'm nuts for wanting to keep A-Gon. In their defense, Hardy did have two exceptional years (07 and 08), but other than that, he hasn't been very good.

 

But I still really do have a bit of faith in Lowrie to do better. He just can't keep on getting injured... it's breaking his career.

 

Hardy>Lowrie

 

 

Lowrie is destined to be a super sub(2B,SS,3B) IMO.

[BSN07]

So what are you getting at?

 

Gonzo is fine for this season. But there are better options to look into this off season before bringing him back.

[RWTP24]

Gonzo is fine for this season. But there are better options to look into this off season before bringing him back.

 

Well of course there are better options out there. AGon is just to fill the hole we have.

[The_Destroyah]

Holy hell, now there are talks about Hardy??

 

He sucks! What is he batting? .230? Hell, the rest of his stats aren't very good. That is just as bad as AGon has been before returning to the Sox. I would much rather stick with Jed.

 

Hes having a bad season but he is still young and has potential to hit 25+ homeruns and when compared to Gonzo is similar but slightly better at OBP, so lets say they are even in the OBP department (im not using average for reasons mentioned previously in this thread) so you have gonzo who will give you 6HRs a season if you are lucky and career .650 OPS and a career .294 OBP, While Hardy offers you a career .751 OPS and .323 OBP and can offer you atleast 20 HRs, and even this year when he has "sucked" he has hit for a .300 OBP and a .657 OPS and 11 HRs (remember that he was sent to the minor leagues earlier this year so that number is a bit off) and you have Gonzo's 2009 season which he has hit for a .275 OBP and a .635 OPS, so what exactly is you peoples problem with Hardy? are you afraid he will be too expensive? well we are all talking about acquring him for MDC + a PTBNL which seems like a plenty reasonable price for a 27 yo SS who is good defensively and has potential to be an offensive force at the typically weak SS position.

 

Career OPS and OBP:

Gonzo:

.650 OPS

.294 OBP

 

Hardy:

.751 OPS

.323 OBP

 

 

2009 season:

Gonzo:

.635 OPS

.275 OBP

7 HRs

 

Hardy:

.657 OPS

.300 OBP

11 HRs

[RWTP24]

Hes having a bad season but he is still young and has potential to hit 25+ homeruns and when compared to Gonzo is similar but slightly better at OBP' date=' so lets say they are even in the OBP department (im not using average for reasons mentioned previously in this thread) so you have gonzo who will give you 6HRs a season if you are lucky and career .650 OPS and a career .294 OBP, While Hardy offers you a career .751 OPS and .323 OBP and can offer you atleast 20 HRs, and even this year when he has "sucked" he has hit for a .300 OBP and a .657 OPS and 11 HRs (remember that he was sent to the minor leagues earlier this year so that number is a bit off) and you have Gonzo's 2009 season which he has hit for a .275 OBP and a .635 OPS, so what exactly is you peoples problem with Hardy? are you afraid he will be too expensive? well we are all talking about acquring him for MDC + a PTBNL which seems like a plenty reasonable price for a 27 yo SS who is good defensively and has potential to be an offensive force at the typically weak SS position.[/quote']

 

 

Ok, let me make sure this is clear...I do not like AGon for a long term SS earlier. I am saying if we are going to go get a SS over Jed, we need to pick someone better. I don't think Hardy is the right chose for the Sox.

[The_Destroyah]

Ok' date=' let me make sure this is clear...I do not like AGon for a long term SS earlier. I am saying if we are going to go get a SS over Jed, we need to pick someone better. I don't think Hardy is the right chose for the Sox.[/quote']

 

so someone who can be one of the top 5 in the league offensively and definsively isn't good enough? this year (the year in which he "sucked") he has hit for more power and done more at the dish than Lowrie has ever done, he would cost us relatively little and could prove to be an amazing acquisition and if he doesnt pan out he is still better than any SS who has been on our roster in a long long time.

[Emmz]

I said I would take Hardy over Gonzo if he puts up numbers like 07 and 08. Please read all my posts.

You said that, and it still doesn't make any sense. Hardy is having a bad year and he's still better than Gonzo is. He's barely lower in OBP, and he has much more pop, and he's better defensively, which is what Gonzo is good at. He's nothing more than a hole-filler right now, and he's usually a black hole in the line up. Yes he's hitting at his best right now, but even his best isn't as good as Hardy's worst.

I said Hardy is the better player based on former stats (except for this year I heard he's doing bad).

Point 1: Hardy is still having a better overall offensive season than Gonzo is, even if it is a down year.

 

Point 2: You just basically admitted that you're not researching statistics, and just going by what you're seeing by watching games. So basically it's either from what you've heard or what you've seen. That's why you said "He's hitting about .280" etc etc. Just do some research, for one, and also, stop using batting average as an argument. It's not a good statistic, and we've been over this about 90 times in this argument

 

Nonetheless, it's hard to tell and Hardy is horrible this year. Which is why he may not be the answer.

 

He's having a bad year, yeah, but you even admitted "you heard" that he was having a bad year. That bad year is still better than this amazing performance that you seem to be thinking Gonzo is having this year. It's still worth the risk, considering that it's probably just a flaw in his mechanics, which can be fixed most likely. If not, it's probably not going to cost much to get him, he'll come cheap due to his down year, and that's why we should act on this

 

I don't mind keeping Gonzo if we can't find another option. He's not THAT bad.

 

Yes, he really is