Red Sox Re-Acquire Alex Gonzalez

[TedWilliams101]

Is that right? Is it impossible that JWH, the guy who signs the checks, is feeling the crunch financially? The economy does suck lately, and he has been forced to eat his share of blown money.

 

Word of advice, don't criticize the team not breaking the bank for Player X unless you have inside knowledge of their financial state. [/Quote]

 

Last time I checked, Fenway Park is still selling out every game and the Ticket Prices haven't gone down...

[a700hitter]

Is that right? Is it impossible that JWH, the guy who signs the checks, is feeling the crunch financially? The economy does suck lately, and he has been forced to eat his share of blown money.

 

Word of advice, don't criticize the team not breaking the bank for Player X unless you have inside knowledge of their financial state.

The ballpark has sold outagain this season as did Spring Training, so I don't know where the bad economy would have hit the Red Sox. if it had any effect, it would have been to a much less extent than it has hit other teams.

 

For a team like the Giants, who have always been a team with good pitching that just needs a bat, Lowell would have been a good fit. The Red Sox would have asked for anything useful in return.

 

Why does it matter how Lowell's looked this season? His 2009 performance is moot in this discussion.

No team was going to take him without seeing if he had recovered from the surgery, so they wouldn't have been able to move him before late in Spring Training and he looked awful at that juncture. No team was going to give up anything for him or pay any of his salary. The Sox would have been forced to DFA him, and they were willing to take that risk, because they wanted Teixeira.

 

Guzman isn't Lowell in that there is nothing exciting about his offense or defense. Lowell's defense would have been a question mark to whoever acquired him' date=' but his bat isn't a mystery. Anybody that would take Guzman off our hands would only be doing so as a stopgap for another MiLB shortstop they hope to take over the job in another year.[/quote']He has two advantages as trade bait over Lowell (at the beginning of '09). The financial commitment is less than 1/3rd of the amount and Guzman is healthy.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Last time I checked' date=' Fenway Park is still selling out every game and the Ticket Prices haven't gone down...[/quote']

And?

 

 

Are those the team's only resources?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He is a SS. Very few SS OPS above .800. The only guys who do are either completely untouchable (Hanley' date=' etc) or old (Tejada, etc). I'm sure there would be interest next year in a 32 year old SS who can hit above .300, can put up a mid-700 OPS, and is slightly below-average fielder.[/quote']

Sure, if the Sox eat his contract.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

The ballpark has sold outagain this season as did Spring Training' date=' so I don't know where the bad economy would have hit the Red Sox. if it had any effect, it would have been to a much less extent than it has hit other teams.[/quote']

 

Outside resources, maybe? JWH is an investor.

 

No team was going to take him without seeing if he had recovered from the surgery, so they wouldn't have been able to move him before late in Spring Training and he looked awful at that juncture. No team was going to give up anything for him or pay any of his salary. The Sox would have been forced to DFA him, and they were willing to take that risk, because they wanted Teixeira.

 

Conjecture.

 

He has two advantages as trade bait over Lowell (at the beginning of '09). The financial commitment is less than 1/3rd of the amount and Guzman is healthy.

 

Missing the point. Guzman is hardly rock-solid on both sides of the ball.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Jacoby_Ellsbury has 30 posts in this thread defending Gonzalez. No need. He's going to be a bench player for us.

[a700hitter]

Outside resources' date=' maybe? JWH is an investor.[/quote']That wouldn't have an effect on the finances of the Red Sox. It's a separate financial and legal entity. As for his private investing, Henry was a market maker. he wasn't the kind of investor that got caught with his pants down. As a hedge fund guy, he profited from up markets and down markets.

 

Conjecture.

I've got you by the balls now.

[a700hitter]

I really don't understand how they picked up a guy worse than Green. He has less range and a weaker arm and he is worse offensively too. Bargain baement move all the way.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/08/is_gonzalez_an.html

[Dipre]

I really don't understand how they picked up a guy worse than Green. He has less range and a weaker arm and he is worse offensively too. Bargain baement move all the way.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/08/is_gonzalez_an.html

 

 

Kilgore's an idiot.

 

Gonzales is a huge defensive upgrade over Green there's no if or but about it.

 

But of course, we all know he's an automatic out.

[italstallianion]

Kilgore's an idiot.

 

Gonzales is a huge defensive upgrade over Green there's no if or but about it.

 

But of course, we all know he's an automatic out.

 

 

 

As long as he's an automatic out on defense as well then I'm fine with it.

[ORS]

Again, just run a worst case scenario by you. The Sox get Guzman. And some GM decides to make Hanley/Hardy/Escobar/Tulo/Andrus/ Some young talented SS, and the Sox don't get in on it because of Guzman. How would you look at the acquisition then?

 

I'm just trying to get you to see a few months down the road that move could look really bad.

Or even worse, just imagine if the sun went supernova, and the Sox had SS that they really didn't want when the apocalypse occurred.

 

Jesus f***ing Christ, really? This is your argument? Don't do this now because some hypothetical pipe dream might occur and you'd miss out.

 

I don't disagree that Guzman was not a desirable option, but this is the mother of all bad justifications.

[Dojji]

Are we really having this great big argument over whether we should have acquired Cristian Guzman?

 

Even though the Nationals said point blank that if the Sox had claimed him they'd have pulled him off waivers?

 

Talk about desperate.

 

Look, in the offseason we'll ship some prospects either to Florida for Hanley, or more realistically probably to Texas for Young, or Cleveland for Peralta, both of which are vastly superior options to Guzman.

 

Failing that, if both teams should for some incredible reason not be interested in trading an expensive and expendable shortstop, we can make a pickup on J. J. Hardy, who has a fair change to regain his stroke at Fenway. He's a dead pull RHH hitter, only 4 hits all year to right field. A similar arrangement worked wonders for Mike Lowell and his similar pull tendencies.

[SoxSport]

The way the fans support this team, they deserve more than what they have been getting lately. I'm disturbed that the best lineup isn't out there every game right now. If they don't make the playoffs, there might be some hell to pay.

[a700hitter]

The way the fans support this team' date=' they deserve more than what they have been getting lately. I'm disturbed that the best lineup isn't out there every game right now. If they don't make the playoffs, there might be some hell to pay.[/quote']There should be. A whole season of Nick Green at SS is disgraceful for a team like the Red Sox.

[Dojji]

No matter how great the fans are the team is still vulnerable to baseball entropy.

 

Green was not our first choice for a shortstop. He wasn't even our second choice. If we'd had anything resembling good fortune this year our shortstop would have been Jed Lowrie, with Lugo as a fallback. Both of those options being ridiculously bad, hurt, or both, Green has seen a lot more time than he ever should have. This was NEVER intended.

 

At some point you really do have to ask the question of how far you go to save a season that's already headed down the flusher, when you could make much saner moves if you punt or semi-punt and wait until the offseason.

[example1]

At some point you really do have to ask the question of how far you go to save a season that's already headed down the flusher, when you could make much saner moves if you punt or semi-punt and wait until the offseason.

 

At some point, for sure. When they get Alex Gonzalez for virtually nothing to fill a hole? No, not then.

 

Making the playoffs is not headed down the flusher. The great thing about this FO is that they aren't going to mortgage the future to make a run this year. They plan on always being competitive, not just to win this year and then sell the team short in the future. That seems obvious.

[SCM33]

At some point, for sure. When they get Alex Gonzalez for virtually nothing to fill a hole? No, not then.

 

Making the playoffs is not headed down the flusher. The great thing about this FO is that they aren't going to mortgage the future to make a run this year. They plan on always being competitive, not just to win this year and then sell the team short in the future. That seems obvious.

 

The thing that bothers me, is that for the most part, Theo keeps making moves at the position that make no sense. One year its offense, then defense.

 

In fact, we went from AGON, to Lugo for his bat, now we are right back with AGON, the moves are really just lateral, you can argue up and down about what this person does, or that person......but none of them are significantly better than the other. Its frustrating.

[TheKilo]

In a nutshell' date=' here's the thing: our lineup, when everyone's producing up to par, is good enough to where we can install some Glovey McNoodlebat in the 9 spot and not really feel the effects. If it gets to the point where our other hitters are all s***ing the bed at once and we [b']need[/b] the SS to produce at the plate, we're not winning anything anyway.

 

Gonzalez is a proficient defender and a crap hitter. I can live with that.

 

My oh my, how our standards have decreased.

 

This is a terrible move for the Red Sox. Atrocious. Gonzalez is not a good defensive SS anymore. He had s***** range in 2006. He's had knee and elbow injuries since then.

 

f***ing awful, indefensible move. I'd rather call Navarro up.

[italstallianion]

I heard Buster Olney say that the Reds are eating some of the remaining salary. So by giving up Negron we aren't giving up as much money as I thought. While that's logical and somewhat obvious, it's still worth nothing nonetheless.

 

If I heard correctly, the Reds were eating $1.2 million.

[Dojji]

Still don't like this deal. I don't think Guzman was one of them, but I think there are better moves we could make even now.

 

There just isn't any upside on Gonzalez. He is what he is, and it isn't going to get better. All else failing I'd rather go for a guy who has the ability to improve a little. That almost makes Green a better candidate, since at least he's shown some progress in flashes here and there.

[TheKilo]

Fun fact - the three shortstop options since Lowrie went down (Green, Woodward, Gonzalez) combined for exactly 0 major league games in 2008.

 

Theo should be embarrassed.

[Dojji]

I dunno why Theo should be embarrassed to run into such bad luck that we're working on our 6th shortstop this year.

[SCM33]

Fun fact - the three shortstop options since Lowrie went down (Green, Woodward, Gonzalez) combined for exactly 0 major league games in 2008.

 

Theo should be embarrassed.

 

I just dont understand what he is trying to do. What does he want? Offense? Defense? I just dont get it. Why cant he find a player to play SS? Why is it a merry-go-round?

 

The guy he got rid of, Lugo....was the best option out of all of them, and we couldnt stand the guy......my head is going to explode, I just dont get what he is trying to accomplish, since getting a good SS isnt it.

[SCM33]

I dunno why Theo should be embarrassed to run into such bad luck that we're working on our 6th shortstop this year.

 

This year?

 

This has been on going for 5 years.

[Dojji]

There's times when it's just that nothing works.

 

Lugo hit, but he was pathetically bad on D and can't stay healthy.

 

Lowrie defended OK, but didn't hit and can't stay healthy.

 

Green stays healthy, but he's not a fantastic defensive shortstop and his bat is Orlando Cabrera bad.

 

Woodward and Gonzalez are clearly not big league shortstops at this time, but when you get this far down in your depth in ANY position on ANY team you're going to find suck.

[TheKilo]

I dunno why Theo should be embarrassed to run into such bad luck that we're working on our 6th shortstop this year.

 

$100 million payroll and he is using Nick Green, Chris Woodward, and now Alex Gonzalez in crucial games in August.

 

Embarrassing. Should have just kept Lugo.

[Dojji]

This year?

 

This has been on going for 5 years.

 

It really hasn't been this bad most years. Usually we have a guy who gets the job done for most of the year. We never really found that guy this season.

[Dojji]

$100 million payroll and he is using Nick Green, Chris Woodward, and now Alex Gonzalez in crucial games in August.

 

Embarrassing. Should have just kept Lugo.

 

 

Lugo cannot play the position defensively. I don't care how bad Green is, Lugo's worse.

 

A good shortstop is one of the hardest things to find, no matter how big your payroll is. If there's a player who's likely to never hit free agency it's any kind of really good shortstop.

[jsc1973]

I heard Buster Olney say that the Reds are eating some of the remaining salary. So by giving up Negron we aren't giving up as much money as I thought. While that's logical and somewhat obvious, it's still worth nothing nonetheless.

 

If I heard correctly, the Reds were eating $1.2 million.

 

The Reds are eating $1.1 million of the $1.53 million he's still due for this season. So we're basically renting him for about $425,000. He has a $6M option for 2010, and a $500,000 buyout if the club declines.

 

If Theo thinks he can find a long-term solution, he can just pay the buyout, or if there's nothing out there, then he has the option to keep Gonzalez for one more season. There are worse shortstops out there. We know, we've had our share of them this year.

 

I'm just glad we're going into the stretch run with at least one legitimate major-league shortstop on the roster. He can't hit anymore, not that he ever really could, but at least he won't kick away a run or two every other game.

[SCM33]

It really hasn't been this bad most years. Usually we have a guy who gets the job done for most of the year. We never really found that guy this season.

 

But thats the thing. In Theos eyes, our SS's are never getting it done, which is why he is always replacing them. I just want them to find one, even if he sucks.....I dont care......find a SS and stick to it. Stop with the lateral to

 

Lugo> Lowrie > Green> Woodward > A Gonzalez.

 

In fact, I take back my statement, he isnt making lateral moves, hes making worse ones.