Red Sox Re-Acquire Alex Gonzalez

[cobra24]

Defense is trash?

 

he is a little better then Green with his D, that is it. at least Green will find the base path when is up to bat.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

he is a little better then Green with his D' date=' that is it. at least Green will find the base path when is up to bat.[/quote']

Gonzalez's defense is better than Green's by a fair margin. I'd rather have a guy who is proficient at one major part of the game and sucks at another, than a guy who isn't too good at either.

[cobra24]

Gonzalez can play defense. Guzman's decent, but not as good as Gonzalez. He also comes with a much higher price tag. You may not care about that kind of thing, but the team does (and rightfully so, since it is their money).

 

 

 

Doesn't really matter.

 

 

wow, you have to be kidding me... Guzman is way better then Gonzalez...

[Spudboy]

There was a report that Sox had claimed him. A lively debate had ensued. I was comparing that hypothetical acquisition to this. I wasn't saying that it is or was an option.

 

That discussion took place before this kid came aboard, I believe.

[a700hitter]

Gonzalez can play defense. Guzman's decent, but not as good as Gonzalez. He also comes with a much higher price tag. You may not care about that kind of thing, but the team does (and rightfully so, since it is their money).

Well, since the fans that buy lots of tickets, like me, provide the revenue, the management of the team is in the business of pleasing the fans. This move doesn't please me.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Well' date=' since the fans that buy lots of tickets, like me, provide the revenue, the management of the team is in the business of pleasing the fans. This move doesn't please me.[/quote']

The Guzman move looks pleasing right now, but I can't help but feel you'd change your tune when his $8M salary for next year could end up blocking other moves for improvement.

 

Guzman is grossly overpaid.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

wow' date=' you have to be kidding me... Guzman is way better then Gonzalez...[/quote']

Not entirely.

[a700hitter]

Guzman hit's marginally better then green. But his defense might be worse. Even if Agon doesn't hit much out of the 9th spot, at least he can field the position.

 

What good are singles if your giving the other team extra outs in the field?

Guzman is far superior to Green offensively.

[CrespoBlows]

wow' date=' you have to be kidding me... Guzman is way better then Gonzalez...[/quote']

 

Defensively? Guzman is an atrocious defender.

[cobra24]

The Guzman move looks pleasing right now, but I can't help but feel you'd change your tune when his $8M salary for next year could end up blocking other moves for improvement.

 

Guzman is grossly overpaid.

 

He might be over paid, but we could have used him this year to have a much better chance at winning it all. also, we could have traded him in the off season and we would not have to worry about that money.

[Looch Ness Monster]

People are actually mad about this?

 

 

Gonzalez is a good defensive SS. Becomes the best one on the team, by a good margin. He can't hit, but I'd rather have an incompetent bat combined with quality fielding than a shaky bat combined with a shaky fielder.

 

People thought Gonzalez was a good defensive SS in 2006. It's been injuries that have set him back. There's a reason the 4th place REDS placed him on waivers.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

In a nutshell, here's the thing: our lineup, when everyone's producing up to par, is good enough to where we can install some Glovey McNoodlebat in the 9 spot and not really feel the effects. If it gets to the point where our other hitters are all s***ing the bed at once and we need the SS to produce at the plate, we're not winning anything anyway.

 

Gonzalez is a proficient defender and a crap hitter. I can live with that.

[CrespoBlows]

He might be over paid' date=' but we could have used him this year to have a much better chance at winning it all. also, we could have traded him in the off season and we would not have to worry about that money.[/quote']

 

Who is going to take his contract?

[cobra24]

Defensively? Guzman is an atrocious defender.

 

He is WAY better then Gonzalez in his all around game..

[TedWilliams101]

We can talk all we want about getting a player but if he isn't available it does not really matter does it? We can talk about trading for Albert Pujlos too' date=' but if there is no evidence that he is available or if we dont have intrest in Guzman then why are we have a dicussion about Guzman? You are making it sound like an option by saying it makes Guzman look like a good deal when there was no dicussions between the Red Sox and Nationals for Guzman. See what im getting at here?[/quote']

 

I would rather Guzman, Asdrubal Cabrera, Scutaro, O-Cab, Tulowitzki, Peralta, Stephen Drew, Andrus, Eckstein, Barms, or Hardy over Gonzo (not including the off-limits guys). Surely, at least one of those guys were/are available.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

People thought Gonzalez was a good defensive SS in 2006. It's been injuries that have set him back. There's a reason the 4th place REDS placed him on waivers.

What does that have to do with anything? The Reds placed him on waivers because they're out of contention, trying to cut costs, have a couple of internal SS options for next year, and would take anything they could get in return for an expendable player. If a contending team placed him on waivers, then you might be onto something.

 

Gonzalez isn't near GG status anymore, but he can still do a respectable job.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He is WAY better then Gonzalez in his all around game..

We're not really worrying about his all-around game. We're not going to get a good all around shortstop at this point in the season. Gonzalez is a quality defender. We don't have any shortstops that are any good offensively, so Gonzalez by default becomes our best option.

[CrespoBlows]

 

Gonzalez is a proficient defender and a crap hitter. I can live with that.

 

Proficient? Not anymore.

 

I guess he's better than Woodward.

[BSN07]

Doji almost always addresses financial risk to the exclusion of the risk that is important to most fans--- that the guy will suck. AGon sucks. Guzman does not.

 

Typical a700. Everything now now now. Don't care about this off season or next season, only now. We shouldn't be shocked.

We will just concentrate on Guzman's performance. Not the teams.

 

Guzman comes in. hits .270 .330 OBP couple HR's. He hits ok, but his defense is not good. Would that be worth the move? Can you honestly expect more then that out of him?

 

 

I basically just describes what Julio Lugo was in Boston. Guzman=Lugo. Do you really want him at SS now and for 2010?

 

Let me run a scenario by you since you normally like to do the "worst case" variety.

 

What if the acquire him and it keeps them from going after a legit young SS this off season? You would be first in line trashing the FO and be cursing Guzman's name. If you don't believe me just think if this headline, " Sox back out of Hanley deal. Sox are committed to Guzman for 2010".

[Looch Ness Monster]

What does that have to do with anything? The Reds placed him on waivers because they're out of contention, trying to cut costs, have a couple of internal SS options for next year, and would take anything they could get in return for an expendable player. If a contending team placed him on waivers, then you might be onto something.

 

Gonzalez isn't near GG status anymore, but he can still do a respectable job.

 

UZR in 2006 11.8

UZR now 2.0

[cobra24]

UZR in 2006 11.8

UZR now 2.0

 

Whats UZR?

[Gosawks]

Gonzalez is an average defensive SS, but he doesn't make nearly the amount of errors that Green does.

 

This move isn't an upgrade.

 

Have you ever watched Gonzalez play defense? Gonzalez is a great defensive shortstop. His UZR is a +4 and has commited only 6 errors in 266 chances. Green has 14 errors in 308 chances and a UZR of-5.0 and a .955 Fielding percentage. It is stupid to compare Nick Green who is a below average defensive shortstop and Gonzalez who is a great defensive shortstop. This is comparing Apples and Oranges.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I would rather Guzman

 

Covered.

 

Asdrubal Cabrera

 

Cleveland's rebuilding, Cabrera's part of their future plans. Not available for anything reasonable.

 

Scutaro,

 

Risky, because he's so far over his career norms right now (in his mid-30s) that he could see the rug pulled out from under him at any time.

 

O-Cab,

 

I think they would have opted for him is he was truly available.

 

Tulowitzki,

 

Not a chance, Rockies are also in contention.

 

Peralta,

 

See O-Cab

 

Stephen Drew, Andrus,

 

Not a chance.

 

Eckstein,

 

Not a good player anymore.

 

Barms

 

Rockies are in contention, I doubt they make any shake-ups.

 

or Hardy

 

The Hardy that just got banished to the minors?

[SoxSport]

Probably the best option they could have gotten right now in terms of value. It won't cost them much, and I'm sure that's a consideration vs Guzman, for example.

Hard to say where AGon is right now, coming off injuries. Seems to be hot with the bat. If he can be steady at SS, that's probably enough.

Lugo is on a tear right now in StL. He looked a step slower in the field post injury in Boston. Maybe they didn't wait long enough on him. They didn't wait much on Cabrera or Renteria, either.

[BSN07]

Ultimate Zone Rating I believe. It's a defensive statistic so to speak.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Whats UZR?

 

Ultimate Zone Rating "The number of runs above or below average a fielder is in both range runs and error runs combined." - Fangraphs

 

He would be second in the majors at SS with that UZR this season.

[TedWilliams101]

2009:

Gonzalez: 2.0 UZR (fielding runs above average), -7 RAR, -.7 WAR

Guzman: -5.2 UZR, 13.1 RAR, 1.3 WAR

Green: 3.3 UZR, 5.7 RAR, 0.6 WAR

 

So this year, even though Guzman is the worst fielder of the bunch, his bat equates to the most wins.

[BSN07]

2009:

Gonzalez: 2.0 UZR (fielding runs above average), -7 RAR, -.7 WAR

Guzman: -5.2 UZR, 13.1 RAR, 1.3 WAR

Green: 3.3 UZR, 5.7 RAR, 0.6 WAR

 

So this year, even though Guzman is the worst fielder of the bunch, his bat equates to the most wins.

 

Will that make it easier for you to watch when he's air mailing balls into the seats?

[Cocos Disciples]

I think they would have opted for him is he was truly available.

 

He was available.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He was available.

Source? And what was the price tag?