2009 AL Cy Young Watch

[High Mileage]

Yankee fans in Montana representing...

 

Yes, the one guy with internet in Montana is a Yankees fan...

[yankees228]

Yes' date=' the one guy with internet in Montana is a Yankees fan...[/quote']

 

Haha, yup. Anyway, Greinke clearly deserves to win it, and I hope he does. I just hope the writers feel the same way, because they've proven numerous times that they can't always be trusted to vote for the best guy.

[High Mileage]

Friday...

Hernandez: W #16, 9 innings, 8 hits, 2 runs (1 earned), 1 walk, 3 strikeouts, 0 home runs. ERA down to 2.45

 

Saturday...

Sabathia: W #18, 7 innings, 4 hits, 1 run (0 earned), 2 walks, 8 strikeouts, 0 home runs. ERA down to 3.31

Verlander: L #9, 7.1 innings, 9 hits, 5 runs (earned), 2 walks, 6 strikeouts, 1 home run. ERA up to 3.44

 

Sunday...

Halladay: L #10, 7 innings, 10 hits, 2 runs (earned), 3 walks, 4 strikeouts, 1 home run. ERA down 3.01

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/KScivic/Royals/alcyw16.jpg

[BSN07]

You guys still think I was wrong about CC being having a legit shot? lol

 

I don't see a unanimous choice. I think the votes are going to be really divided making for close vote.

 

Right now my top 4 are(in no specific order) CC, Felix, Greinke and Mo. And I think a case can be made for each.

 

I don't see Halladay or Verlander winning it.

[Dojji]

There are years when a closer might win it but I don't think this is one. Especially when a major contender is on his own team.

 

We've got a starting pitcher out there whose ERA is hovering just above 2. If Greinke dips BELOW 2, he wins the Cy. No doubt in my mind.

[Cocos Disciples]

Greinke should win in a landslide as is.

[redsoxrules]

Its either Grienke or Felix

 

if its anyone else its a joke

 

M. Rivera dosent stand a chance

 

He'd need to have 50+ saves without blowing one and have an ERA below 1 to even have a slight chance

[High Mileage]

Looking at how well Sabathia has pitched at home and against the Red Sox, I think he's going to be the favorite with the voters. IF Greinke pitches well against the Red Sox tomorrow, and in his final two starts against the Twins, it should be enough to take it, although he probably needs to pick up at least 2 more victories, and that probably won't happen...

[redsoxrules]

Looking at how well Sabathia has pitched at home and against the Red Sox' date=' I think he's going to be the favorite with the voters. IF Greinke pitches well against the Red Sox tomorrow, and in his final two starts against the Twins, it should be enough to take it, although he probably needs to pick up at least 2 more victories, and that probably won't happen...[/quote']

 

Pitching VS the redsox does not determin the CY

[High Mileage]

Pitching VS the redsox does not determin the CY

 

I never said it did. His numbers alone should give him the CYA, but we all know there are voters out there that love wins, and that love the Yankees. Pitching well against the Red Sox might go a long way with those voters to tip the scales in Greinke's favor. A gem would garner him a lot of national attention...

[redsoxrules]

I never said it did. His numbers alone should give him the CYA' date=' but we all know there are voters out there that love wins, and that love the Yankees. Pitching well against the Red Sox might go a long way with those voters to tip the scales in Greinke's favor. A gem would garner him a lot of national attention...[/quote']

 

I dont know how people have CC in the mix

 

I have him at best 4th

[yankees228]

I never said it did. His numbers alone should give him the CYA' date=' but we all know there are voters out there that love wins, and that love the Yankees. Pitching well against the Red Sox might go a long way with those voters to tip the scales in Greinke's favor. A gem would garner him a lot of national attention...[/quote']

 

I think CC has a legitimate shot because of his wins and because of the competition he faces. However, since when do voters love the Yankees? When is the last time a Yankee won a questionable award? As a matter of fact, most of the time, when it's a close race between two guys (one of them being a Yankee) the other guy usually wins.

[Keeper]

I think CC has a legitimate shot because of his wins and because of the competition he faces. However' date=' since when do voters love the Yankees? When is the last time a Yankee won a questionable award? As a matter of fact, most of the time, when it's a close race between two guys (one of them being a Yankee) the other guy usually wins.[/quote']

 

The fact that Jeter is even in the MVP discussion this year undermines your point.

[yankees228]

The fact that Jeter is even in the MVP discussion this year undermines your point.

 

He doesn't deserve to be the MVP, but there are those voters who believe that team success should be factored in. Jeter, considering his position, is one of the most valuable players on the Yankees. He shouldn't win the award. He shouldn't finish top three. But he deserves some votes.

 

On top of that, Jeter being in the discussion for the MVP award over a month before it's actually selected does not undermine my point in any way. Show me some tangible evidence of voters favoring the Yankees...

 

If the the voters love Jeter so much, then why didn't he win the MVP award in 2006? He led the league in VORP that year, playing shortstop for a playoff team. Instead they made the awful decision of giving it to Justin Morneau, who finished 13th in VORP, and wasn't even the most valuable player on his own team.

 

Or, if there is Yankee bias in the voting, how come Hideki Matsui didn't win the ROY award in 2003? Instead Angel Berroa won it. Matsui posted a 107 OPS+ while Berroa posted a 101 OPS+. Now, considering their positions, I would call this relatively even, but shouldn't this "Yankee bias" have pushed Matsui over the top.

 

Where was the Yankee bias when Mariano Rivera finished second to Bartolo Colon in the 2005 CY Young voting (granted Santana should have won it, but you see my point and they weren't going to give it to a guy with 16 wins).

 

Do you really think the fact that Derek Jeter is in the MVP discussion in a year which he has performed quite well (and been on the best team in baseball) undermines my point that Yankee bias does not seep into the voting process? Or does tangible evidence, such as close votes in the past, hold a little bit more water?

 

*For the record, I'm not saying that there is anti-Yankee bias, and, to honest, these awards mean very little to me. However, over the last decade, there is no Yankee bias when it comes to these awards.

[Dipre]

The fact that Jeter is even in the MVP discussion this year undermines your point.

 

Jeter's MVP candidacy this year is more legit than the one he lost to Morneau.

[yankees228]

Jeter's MVP candidacy this year is more legit than the one he lost to Morneau.

 

The year he led the league VORP?

 

And lost to a guy who was either the second or third most valuable member of his own team.

[Dipre]

The year he led the league VORP?

 

Yeah, but when you look at this year, there's a lot of sentimental paraphernalia regarding his candidacy.

 

Not to mention he's actually catching the ball.

[yankees228]

Yeah, but when you look at this year, there's a lot of sentimental paraphernalia regarding his candidacy.

 

Not to mention he's actually catching the ball.

 

I agree. I think a legitimate case could me made for him both years.

 

However, I don't think he deserves it this year, because you have a guy that has separated himself from the rest of the field (Mauer).

 

But if you look at 2006, a couple things jump out at you. Morneau had no business winning that award, for reasons I already mentioned. Also, Jeter, statistically, had a legitimate case. I probably would have given it to Travis Hafner, but I would not have had a problem giving it to Jeter.

[Dipre]

I agree. I think a legitimate case could me made for him both years.

 

However, I don't think he deserves it this year, because you have a guy that has separated himself from the rest of the field (Mauer).

 

But if you look at 2006, a couple things jump out at you. Morneau had no business winning that award, for reasons I already mentioned. Also, Jeter, statistically, had a legitimate case. I probably would have given it to Travis Hafner, but I would not have had a problem giving it to Jeter.

 

Papi disagrees.

[yankees228]

Papi disagrees.

 

Yes, or Papi. But my point is that Jeter had a legitimate case and so did Hafner. Jeter might have had the added advantage of putting up those numbers at SS.

[Dipre]

Yes' date=' or Papi. But my point is that Jeter had a legitimate case and so did Hafner. Jeter might have had the added advantage of putting up those numbers at SS.[/quote']

 

Yeah but his defense was suspect.

 

Not this year when he's hitting like a house fire AND playing GG caliber defense.

[yankees228]

Yeah but his defense was suspect.

 

Not this year when he's hitting like a house fire AND playing GG caliber defense.

 

Right. All I'm saying was that he had a legitimate case in 2006.

 

But my real point is that no Yankee bias seeps into these awards, and 2006 was just an example. If there really was Yankee bias, Jeter would have certainly won the award.

[High Mileage]

I'm hoping Zackkkkkkkk will be alright after taking that line drive off his forearm in his last start. He says he's pain free, and he only threw 77 pitches over 5 innings, so hopefully he's well rested...

[High Mileage]

I had to work and didn't get to see the game. What do you Sox fans think of Greinke?

[msubulldogs21]

I had to work and didn't get to see the game. What do you Sox fans think of Greinke?

 

I think he's incredible, but it didn't take tonight's performance to show me that. He's been phenomenal all year.

[High Mileage]

Tuesday...

Greinke: W #15, 6 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs, 3 walks, 5 strikeouts, 0 home runs. ERA down to 2.08

[rhet]

Right. All I'm saying was that he had a legitimate case in 2006.

 

But my real point is that no Yankee bias seeps into these awards, and 2006 was just an example. If there really was Yankee bias, Jeter would have certainly won the award.

 

As much as I respect Jeter and what he means to the Yankees, and the love he gets from Yank fans, there is not one year where he was the true MVP of the league. Even in his best years, someone else was better. Even 2006. The only reason it was so close that year was because Morneau split votes with Mauer and Santana.

[yankees228]

As much as I respect Jeter and what he means to the Yankees' date=' and the love he gets from Yank fans, there is not one year where he was the true MVP of the league. Even in his best years, someone else was better. Even 2006. The only reason it was so close that year was because Morneau split votes with Mauer and Santana.[/quote']

 

Like I said, you could make the case that he was the MVP in 2006 solely on the fact that he led the league in VORP on a team that won it's division. You can make the case that someone like Travis Hafner should have won the award, but it should not have been Justin Morneau.

 

In many years there isn't a clear cut winner, and 2006 is no exception. However, Jeter was just as deserving as anyone.

 

EDIT: Also, my original point was that there is no Yankee bias shown in the awards.

[rhet]

Like I said, you could make the case that he was the MVP in 2006 solely on the fact that he led the league in VORP on a team that won it's division. You can make the case that someone like Travis Hafner should have won the award, but it should not have been Justin Morneau.

 

In many years there isn't a clear cut winner, and 2006 is no exception. However, Jeter was just as deserving as anyone.

 

EDIT: Also, my original point was that there is no Yankee bias shown in the awards.

 

There's bias, but what kind is debatable. Wasn't the writer who left Pedro off in 1999 a Yankee scribe?

[yankees228]

There's bias' date=' but what kind is debatable. Wasn't the writer who left Pedro off in 1999 a Yankee scribe?[/quote']

 

It was a couple writers, one of which I think was a Minnesota writer. Regardless, I've already made my case for there not being a Yankee bias in the awards.

 

On top of that, a Yankee writer doesn't prove that a bias exists. A Tampa beat writer, Marc Topkins, gave Jason Bartlett a fifth place MVP vote last year. Does that prove a Rays bias?