Looking Back at Tex

[Paradisecity]

OK, so we are now into June.

 

Looking back, does anybody think that not getting Mark Teixeira was a good idea?

 

I know that this can't truly be judged in hindsight until we see what the trade deadline, and ultimately, this offseason bring, but I also know that our lineup would be a lot different with Papi sitting and Teixeira playing, not to mention the rest it would give Youk and Lowell.

 

How do people feel about this non-move so far, looking back?

[TheKilo]

I don't know how anyone, knowing what we know now, could be opposed to signing Teixeira.

 

Worst case scenario has been realized. God help us if Lowell regresses in the 2nd half (fully expecting it).

 

A sub-.600 OPS is unacceptable from a position player, but getting out of a DH is simply unheard of.

 

Add in the fact that Lars is struggling in AA and may not be the 20x all star some thought he would in the offseason, and it makes the non-signing even more puzzling.

[BoSox21]

Judge the signing in 8 years from now, not two months in.

 

Anyone regret not trading for A-Rod in '03 despite the piss and s*** we've had at short ever since? Didn't think so.

[Paradisecity]

Judge the signing in 8 years from now, not two months in.

 

Anyone regret not trading for A-Rod in '03 despite the piss and s*** we've had at short ever since? Didn't think so.

 

Reminds me of the zen master quote from Charlie Wilson's war.

[Dipre]

Had we acquired Teixeira, Lowell was a goner, and Ortiz' struggles would not have been fixed with Teix in the lineup.

 

IMO, we need to wait for Lowell to decline (high chance) in the 2nd half before we go ape s*** about not signing Teix.

[BoSox21]

no, you need to wait and see if Mike Lowell becomes the reason this team doesn't win the World Series along with whoever plays 1st and 3rd over the next several years

[Paradisecity]

See, I don't think they would have traded Lowell right out of the gate.

 

I remember when they were interested in Tek, talking about the possibility that EITHER Ortiz OR Lowell would not come back to form, and how it was significant enough to pretty much expect that you would need someone else. I think if they had signed Teixeira, they would have started the season with the pieces they have, rotated people around, and got everyone both at-bats and playing time, knowing that the situation would be temporary.

[BoSox21]

I never heard anyone talking about the possibility of an Ortiz/Lowell platoon DH. All the talk I heard was that Lowell would be the odd man out with the reports that the FO had found a landing spot for Lowell had they signed Tex

[VA Sox Fan]

Texiera said he always wanted to go to the Yankees, but we know that $$ talks.

 

Would have been an awsome addition to the Sox.

 

I DON'T expect Lowell to decline in the 2nd half.

 

This trade deadline is going to be very interesting.

[TheKilo]

Texiera said he always wanted to go to the Yankees, but we know that $$ talks.

 

Would have been an awsome addition to the Sox.

 

I DON'T expect Lowell to decline in the 2nd half.

 

This trade deadline is going to be very interesting.

 

Can I ask why?

[a700hitter]

Screw him. Let him lose with the Yankees.

[Dojji]

Tex was not the move that would have helped us. Teixeira would be playing first base with Youkilis at third.

 

His produciton would have helped cover Ortiz, but Bay and Youks are doing that already and there was no way that having Teixeira in the lineup would have meant the Papi Saga would have gone any differently between Opening Day and the third of June.

 

We do have a problem. But not getting Teixeira is not that problem.

[TheKilo]

It's not just this year, though. When Lowell leaves, what then? When Youk starts to decline, what then?

 

Teixeira would have stabilized this lineup for a decade. Instead, he's going to hit 300 HRs in the Bronx.

[example1]

I think that they should have offered him a billion dollars because then he probably would have picked the Sox over the Yankees. Instead they stupidly set a value and stuck to it, thinking that he was actually interested in coming to their team rather than just using their interest to ultimately land where he wanted to go, our rivals the Yankees.

 

I also think it is really productive to look back and lement the ones that got away. I also like to whip myself.

 

Finally, I think it is absurd to argue that Tex wouldn't have helped this team. Lowell is getting on base at a .330 clip and is keeping himself afloat with occasional power. Tex at one corner, Youk at the other, would have been great. Even without Ortiz:

[Dojji]

It's not just this year' date=' though. When Lowell leaves, what then? When Youk starts to decline, what then?[/quote']

 

Needless panic.

 

Youkilis won't go into a major decline for at least another 3-4 years, barring injury or disaster. In the intervening time, first basemen from Carlos Pena to Albert Pujols are potential free agent acquisitions and we will have some power hitters of our own such as Anderson, Rizzo and Still who might fill the DH/1B role we need as well. And that's without even needing to get creative.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is an interesting topic. Couple points.

 

1. Mark Teixeira was going to the highest bidder, period. You dont sign with Boras if you dont go to the highest bidder. Only a few players ever do (Tek being one of them apparently) sign for less money. No matter what Tex said, if Boston offered 190 mil, he'd be donning a red uni instead of a pinstriped one

 

2. Mark Teixeira would have been a replacement for Lowell. I know it was said before, but the rumor was that the Angels were willing to take him for a pay cut and would send over a pitcher. It never got out of the infancy stages because Tex wasnt signed. But think about that. Tex at 1st would provide GG defense and would seriously outperform Lowell offensively, while right now, I think Youkilis is just as good if not better defensively than Lowell right now due to his serious lack of range

 

3. Adding Teixeira would have made the sox corner IF spots be elite in terms of production for the next 5-8 seasons. As it stands right now, Lowell has all signs pointing to a decline this yr (look at the IsoPatience and his career) and without a resurgent Papi, the sox O will be in serious trouble.

 

Those are my points. I think the yankees needed the pitching to get into the conversation with Boston and I think the Tex signing put us over the top. If the sox got Tex, Giambi would be back in NY and our D as well as our O would be in serious dire straits. As it stands, Tex is a rising MVP candidate and I am glad he is in pinstripes.

[redsoxrules]

Even if lowell gets traded this lineup is MUCH better with Tex in than Lowell

 

Tex at 1st & youk at 3rd >>>> youk at 1st & lowell at 3rd and its not even close

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I don't know how anyone, knowing what we know now, could be opposed to signing Teixeira.

 

Worst case scenario has been realized. God help us if Lowell regresses in the 2nd half (fully expecting it).

 

A sub-.600 OPS is unacceptable from a position player, but getting out of a DH is simply unheard of.

 

Add in the fact that Lars is struggling in AA and may not be the 20x all star some thought he would in the offseason, and it makes the non-signing even more puzzling.

Hindsight = 20/20

[jacksonianmarch]

By the way, Tex would also bring steady leadership qualities, a middle of the order bat and the willingness to sacrifice his body for a win. His play last night was awesome, taking out the SS, keeping the inning alive and we went on to score 6 more times and put it out of reach

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Yeah, how dare the Red Sox not forsee Ortiz's epic levels of FAIL and take pre-emptive measures against them.

[VA Sox Fan]

Can I ask why?

 

 

Because I watch the games, I like him and I think he's cool. :lol:

 

At 35, a lot of players start their decline.

His decline last season was obviously due to the hip injury.

His being a "throw in" with the Beckett trade turned out to be good for the team, 2007 WS MVP etc.

 

He's hitting a lot better than I expected (.300), errors have increased but still making some good plays at 3rd (I don't know about you but I don't cringe when a ball is hit to him). He's in good shape, he's missed one game this season and DH'd another. Barring injury, I just don't see why he would decline.

 

You make good points about the future of the team etc. Gotta hope Theo has a plan.

 

I'm more worried about Ortiz being done. And Lugo has got to go, I think we've all been as patient as we can with him, he's almost as big of a bust as Renteria was (maybe more?)

 

Why do you think Lowell will decline in the 2nd half?

[jacksonianmarch]

Nobody could predict his precipitous decline. But some writing was on the wall..

 

1. He is a big man who is entering his mid 30s and is coming off knee and wrist injuries

2. His batting average started slipping after July

 

Granted, I think everyone expected him to hit 20 or more homers and I dont think there were too many people who thought he'd OPS under .850, but the writing was on the wall pertaining to his decline. So a blanket FO backing statement about the absolute shock of Ortiz' poor performance is off because any casual fan could see Ortiz just wasnt the same last yr.

[jacksonianmarch]

Because I watch the games, I like him and I think he's cool. :lol:

 

At 35, a lot of players start their decline.

His decline last season was obviously due to the hip injury.

His being a "throw in" with the Beckett trade turned out to be good for the team, 2007 WS MVP etc.

 

He's hitting a lot better than I expected (.300), errors have increased but still making some good plays at 3rd (I don't know about you but I don't cringe when a ball is hit to him). He's in good shape, he's missed one game this season and DH'd another. Barring injury, I just don't see why he would decline.

 

You make good points about the future of the team etc. Gotta hope Theo has a plan.

 

I'm more worried about Ortiz being done. And Lugo has got to go, I think we've all been as patient as we can with him, he's almost as big of a bust as Renteria was (maybe more?)

 

Why do you think Lowell will decline in the 2nd half?

 

First off, Lowell has had a history of significant declines over the past 4 seasons. Now, they may be due to injury, but you have to remember, this is a post injury Lowell.

 

Second, Lowell isnt walking, at all and he is striking out a tick more than he usually does.

 

Third, his OPS looks really nice right now, but how many guys in their mid 30s suddenly have their second best slugging season in their careers? Not many, and I would assume that wont continue with Lowell.

 

And fourth, if you go by the rules of BABIP which I loosely follow, Lowell has been a bit lucky with a BABIP of around .320.

 

Put it all together and I think Lowell ends up with an OPS in the mid .700s by seasons end. Not terrible, but not what a 3b on a championship caliber team should be OPSing.

[VA Sox Fan]

First off, Lowell has had a history of significant declines over the past 4 seasons. Now, they may be due to injury, but you have to remember, this is a post injury Lowell.

 

Second, Lowell isnt walking, at all and he is striking out a tick more than he usually does.

 

Third, his OPS looks really nice right now, but how many guys in their mid 30s suddenly have their second best slugging season in their careers? Not many, and I would assume that wont continue with Lowell.

 

And fourth, if you go by the rules of BABIP which I loosely follow, Lowell has been a bit lucky with a BABIP of around .320.

 

Put it all together and I think Lowell ends up with an OPS in the mid .700s by seasons end. Not terrible, but not what a 3b on a championship caliber team should be OPSing.

 

Didn't Posada in 2007 or 2008?

[TheKilo]

Yeah' date=' how dare the Red Sox not forsee Ortiz's epic levels of FAIL and take pre-emptive measures against them.[/quote']

 

How dare they not have a contingency plan in place.

[BoSox21]

So a blanket FO backing statement about the absolute shock of Ortiz' poor performance is off because any casual fan could see Ortiz just wasnt the same last yr.

 

Yea....he was injured. I guess the FO just decided to go by that age old theory that humans tend to recover from injuries. I wonder where they would've gotten that idea...

[Dipre]

Jacko's bias is so severe it's not even funny anymore.

[BoSox21]

its such so premature to be discussing the themes of this thread that it makes it almost irrelevant

[Dojji]

How dare they not have a contingency plan in place.

 

For their DH? I'd like to know what kind of contingency you could arrange for a DH who isn't going on the DL without reducing your ability to back up key defensive positions adequately.

[laxtonto]

Here is my question.

 

If the Sox signed Tex, would they not in the long term solved their SS problem for this season? If the team is dealing Lowell, he was going to go to a team that would be needed a 3B and would be sending a player with some monetary cost back to the Sox. I would not have been surprised to see a Lowell and Bowden for Young and Teagarden deal at that point with Texas kicking in some money to balance the deal.

 

That would not have solved the WDH problem, but it would have left Lowrie as the Util INF and one less hole in the lineup.