Pin the date: When does Papi break out/get benched

[TedWilliams101]

Hey satch, nice screenname

 

I like the idea of sending him down to Pawtucket until/if he figures it out. Call up Carter and see what he can do. I'm fine with a 3-4 of Youk-Bay for the future.

[ms_sox]

I read that Ortiz quote on boston.com too, and I feel just horrible for him. It's heart-breaking.

 

That said, I don't think Tito will ever 'move him down' in the lineup, and just being benched won't help his confidence, so agree that sending Ortiz to Pawtucket is the best idea. Hopefully if he's not in the glare/pressure of the majors spotlight, he'll find his way again. If not...well, that can be decided later, if it comes.

[satch9841]

I did a poor job describing my thoughts. I was thinking of options outside the organization if all the in-house options go down the toilet. For now the best option is baldelli. He has been hitting so let's see what happens. I'm sure terry will have papi back in the lineup soon unless he is in total disarray, which could be.

[castigs850]

he'll come back batting 6th tomorrow. bank on it. i dont think HE wants to bat 3 anymore

[Spudboy]

I read that Ortiz quote on boston.com too, and I feel just horrible for him. It's heart-breaking.

 

That said, I don't think Tito will ever 'move him down' in the lineup, and just being benched won't help his confidence, so agree that sending Ortiz to Pawtucket is the best idea. Hopefully if he's not in the glare/pressure of the majors spotlight, he'll find his way again. If not...well, that can be decided later, if it comes.

 

I don't think Papi will be sent to Pawtucket unless it is for "rehab" subsequent to a report of injury. By the way, Pawtucket is about 45 miles south of Boston and is very much in the lime lite. The Providence Journal and most of the Rhode Island media swarm big name players that do a stint with the Pawsox. Certainly, the Boston media would be on top of his situation there.

[ms_sox]

By the way' date=' Pawtucket is about 45 miles south of Boston and is very much in the lime lite. ... Certainly, the Boston media would be on top of his situation there.[/quote']

What I meant was more along the lines that at least Papi wouldn't be in the "U SUCK UR COSTING US THE SEASON U FAT SLOB" type of limelight.

[redsoxrules]

he'll come back batting 6th tomorrow. bank on it. i dont think HE wants to bat 3 anymore

 

Doubt it

he'll be back in the 3 slot

[Dipre]

Doubt it

he'll be back in the 3 slot

 

He sounded defeated last night (which worries me) heprobably asked to be moved down himself.

[MNSoxChief102]

I can only hope he figures it out soon, because when he's on, our lineup will be devastating. For the time being, Tito has to drop him down just enough to take the pressure off and let him relax. Here's how the lineup should look when Youk gets back IMO...

 

1. Ellsbury - L

2. Pedroia - R

3. Drew - L

4. Youk - R

5. Bay - R

6. Ortiz - L

7. Lowell - R

8. Varitek - Switch

9. Lugo/Green - R

[TheKilo]

Radio team saying he's off all weekend

[mvp 78]

He sounded defeated last night (which worries me) heprobably asked to be moved down himself.

 

sometimes you have to hit the bottom before you can pull yourself out of it.

[Gom]

No steroids, no skills. It's kind of obvious at this point.

 

Manny and Ortiz..the greatest 1-2 steroid combo in baseball history.

[a700hitter]

No steroids, no skills. It's kind of obvious at this point.

 

Manny and Ortiz..the greatest 1-2 steroid combo in baseball history.

Skills that deteriorate with age and injury is the natural order of things, you trolling boob. A 37 year old whose performance spikes up like Ramirez gives cause for suspicion.

[TheKilo]

No steroids, no skills. It's kind of obvious at this point.

 

Manny and Ortiz..the greatest 1-2 steroid combo in baseball history.

 

How would steroids help Ortiz? Give me an honest answer.

[Gom]

No power. No ability to recover. Improved hand-eye coordination.

[jacksonianmarch]

roids would help Ortiz now.

[Gom]

Ironic how he joins Boston, where half the players were on the juice [like the Yankees, and yes, this is an assumption], and when he's just about to lose his job, goes on a tear that lasts for years. Then he cleans up, realizes he'd be a pariah in baseball due to his drug use, and he falls back to what he really was...a below-average hitter with no defensive skills.

 

This isn't a fall-off..this is a drop off the cliff. Declining skills without the help of steroids, and he's out of baseball in a year.

[Gom]

Jacko, please don't rip on Ortiz. You have the reverse Midas touch. Everything you say turns to s***. You've done it with our players, now you'll do it with them. Just don't rip anyone on the Red Sox, as they're bound to have All-Star seasons once you do.

[satch9841]

I can only hope he figures it out soon, because when he's on, our lineup will be devastating. For the time being, Tito has to drop him down just enough to take the pressure off and let him relax. Here's how the lineup should look when Youk gets back IMO...

 

1. Ellsbury - L

2. Pedroia - R

3. Drew - L

4. Youk - R

5. Bay - R

6. Ortiz - L

7. Lowell - R

8. Varitek - Switch

9. Lugo/Green - R

nice lineup. Can't hit ortiz 7th because opposing pitcher then would have 3 softies in a row, although nick green has been hitting well. I wonder what the coaching staff is doing with ortiz during his time on the pine? When you are on the road i don't suppose there is any access to video for ortiz/coaching staff to review. If there were serious fears on the health of his wrist u might think they might send ortiz to boston to have him checked out. But it looks like they will wait till the team returns home.

[TheKilo]

No power. No ability to recover. Improved hand-eye coordination.

 

Steroids don't improve hand-eye coordination.

[Gom]

Steroids don't improve hand-eye coordination.

 

I'm not sure about that, and here's why. If you increase your strength, you swing faster/harder. It would be my guess that you can turn on a pitch quicker.

[BoSox21]

hand-eye coordination means the ability to put the sweet spot of the bat on the ball, it has nothing to do with bat speed.

[ms_sox]

The biggest tragedy about steroids is how it's made so many people scream "steroids!" at every player who is either suddenly doing well, or suddenly doing terrible. Everyone's guilty.

 

Don't get me wrong...the suspicion is understandable by now...but it's still sad.

[Gom]

hand-eye coordination means the ability to put the sweet spot of the bat on the ball' date=' it has nothing to do with bat speed.[/quote']

 

But if you lack the skill to react in time...steroids would help. From what I've seen about Papi, he doesn't have the bat speed. Pitchers pound him with fastballs because he can't catch up, and steroids speed up your bat in my mind.

 

What you're seeing is how a player made a career due to drugs. This wasn't a superstar like Bonds who just wanted to be the greatest. Look at Clemens. When he started to fade, he did roids, and won two Cy Youngs. The difference [making the assumption that Papi did roids, which is of little doubt in my mind] is that they were great players before they did roids.

[ORS]

There is absolutely no way you can convince me steroids speed up your bat. You are talking about grown men swinging something that weighs less that 3 pounds. What strength gained through steroids would provide is more power when you load up on the back foot. It would aid in HR totals by allowing the player to hit more out that weren't on the sweet spot, ie to "muscle one out".

 

This is another example of the basis for your assumptions failing to match reality.

 

Here's a question, his best year was in 2006, which was the year in which the current testing standard was initiated. If he's cheating then, and he got away with it, why would he stop? He'd still be getting away with it, and if that is the case he's already a cheat so I don't think conscience stops him.

 

I get what you are trying to do by saying that "if there's smoke, there's fire", but it would help if you weren't pointing at clouds in the sky calling them smoke.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it could help him heal quicker, something that he may not have fully done. I dont think he's doing it, but if he did, I bet it would help

[Gom]

There is absolutely no way you can convince me steroids speed up your bat. You are talking about grown men swinging something that weighs less that 3 pounds. What strength gained through steroids would provide is more power when you load up on the back foot. It would aid in HR totals by allowing the player to hit more out that weren't on the sweet spot, ie to "muscle one out".

 

This is another example of the basis for your assumptions failing to match reality.

 

Here's a question, his best year was in 2006, which was the year in which the current testing standard was initiated. If he's cheating then, and he got away with it, why would he stop? He'd still be getting away with it, and if that is the case he's already a cheat so I don't think conscience stops him.

 

I get what you are trying to do by saying that "if there's smoke, there's fire", but it would help if you weren't pointing at clouds in the sky calling them smoke.

 

Steroids make you stronger. If you make your wrists stronger, you can swing quicker. Thats all I'm saying ORS.

 

I don't know this, this is just a guess of mine. I'd ask Jacko, but I'd need to ask a real doctor to get a good answer.

[ORS]

Paul Molitor had the fastest bat I've ever seen. He was lightning through the strikezone. He was not the biggest, strongest player, by far, of his era. Power and bat speed are two different things.

[example1]

Steroids make you stronger. If you make your wrists stronger, you can swing quicker. Thats all I'm saying ORS.

 

I don't know this, this is just a guess of mine. I'd ask Jacko, but I'd need to ask a real doctor to get a good answer.

 

 

But you avoided the main question ORS is asking, namely, if Ortiz was using throughout the first few years of the heightened testing era and was able to get away with it, why would he suddenly stop now?

[Gom]

But you avoided the main question ORS is asking' date=' namely, if Ortiz was using throughout the first few years of the heightened testing era and was able to get away with it, why would he suddenly stop now?[/quote']

 

Think of what his image in Boston would be if he was caught. He finally decided it wasn't worth the risk.