Papi

[Lil D-Ped]

Am i the only one that thinks Papi is done..............?

 

I don't think he's done.. I expect him to bounce back sometime this season but I think he's had a major dropoff and won't have the same season he had before but still produce at maybe 20HR 80RBI .260ish but with solid OBP.

[BoSox21]

Who did that? Who expressed concern 3 days in? How is that comment at ALL appropriate in the context of this thread?

 

Jesus effing Christ, get off the CEG for a second...

 

I didnt say anyone expressed concern after 3 days, in fact I said as an example of someone's opinion on the the extreme side of the spectrum. If you expect Ortiz to hit 35+ HRs and 120+ RBIs, then yea, you should be concerned at this point but considering how deep this lineup is, I don't think he needs to carry that much of the offense to be effective.

[das11209]

I don't think he's done.. I expect him to bounce back sometime this season but I think he's had a major dropoff and won't have the same season he had before but still produce at maybe 20HR 80RBI .260ish but with solid OBP.

 

Define done. He will never be what he used to be. He will never be an elite hitter of the game. He might be servicable hitter who plays no position.

 

I will be shocked if he hits 20 HR's. But hitting 20 HR is underperformance for a good DH - let alone big papi.

[Lil D-Ped]

Define done. He will never be what he used to be. He will never be an elite hitter of the game. He might be servicable hitter who plays no position.

 

I will be shocked if he hits 20 HR's. But hitting 20 HR is underperformance for a good DH - let alone big papi.

 

done as in "he's done, there's no where to go but cut him," yeah i agree with the homeruns but as long as he produces OPS wise I'd be fine with him.

[rician blast]

Jesus effing Christ, get off the CEG for a second...

 

I didnt say anyone expressed concern after 3 days, in fact I said as an example of someone's opinion on the the extreme side of the spectrum. If you expect Ortiz to hit 35+ HRs and 120+ RBIs, then yea, you should be concerned at this point but considering how deep this lineup is, I don't think he needs to carry that much of the offense to be effective.

 

CEG? Yeah, ok, whatever. <_>

 

Still missing the point...now you're saying it's ok to be concerned if you had expected 35/120 but he "doesn't need to carry that much of the offense."

 

That's not at all what this recent discussion was about. It was about someone stating that for a #3 hitter Ortiz has thrown up a half season of suck between the last half of last year and beginning of this year and that there should be concern.

 

That poster caught s*** for it. My point has been that the concern expressed by the individual..any individual for that matter...is very valid. Some people simply won't acknowledge that point of view being legit.

 

Should probably drop it since the message isn't getting through, for whatever reason.

[rician blast]

Define done. He will never be what he used to be. He will never be an elite hitter of the game. He might be servicable hitter who plays no position.

 

I will be shocked if he hits 20 HR's. But hitting 20 HR is underperformance for a good DH - let alone big papi.

 

I htink you're right, we've seen his best. At the beginning of the year I figured he was good for .270 and 27 HRs..the average could be attainable, not sure about the dingers.

 

Hitting 20 HRs is not only underperformance for Ortiz..it is also underperformance for a #3 hitter on a team with around $130m in payroll. The Real #3 hitter on this team is probably Youk at this point...but Tito is loyal and wants Ortiz to work this out, pressure free, if possible..plus Tito likes the lefty, righty etc. line-up. I suspect if the Sox had a left handed bopper with decent OBP (i.e. a Bay or Youk type hitter, but a lefty) we'd have seen Ortiz slide down to the 5-hole or something like that.

 

Here's to hoping he turns things around in a big way...I'll be the first to say I underestimated him if he somehow exceeds the numbers I expected of him this year.

[das11209]

Tito's loyality to Papi will be a bigger problem. This will nor help the team not will it help Ortiz to figure out things as he will be under more pressure to perform on the 3 slot.

 

Ortiz is the my MVP of the Red Sox - forever. To me he is more valuable than Ruth, Williams, Frisk, Yaz etc. That said - we can put his photo on Mt. Rushmore - but we need to get him out of the 3 slot right now. I heard that Einstein was booed during his final days at Princeton - the last thing I want to see is Ortiz getting booed at Fenway.

[Soxfan1]

the last thing I want to see is Ortiz getting booed at Fenway.

 

That image makes me cringe.

[MannybeingBarryBonds]

Fat man isn't done. he just misses manny.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Seriously, get a lefty bat for the middle of the lineup. We're into May now and he's still homerless and his f***ing OPS is .552. That sucks, and he sucked all of last year too. At this point, I don't expect jack from him this season, and I think its foolish for anyone to do so since he hasn't been a fearsome hitter since 2007. I don't know how the hell he's still batting third, but its a f***ing embarrassment and he's going to keep holding back the offense until Francona finally grows a brain and realizes that he isn't producing a f***ing thing and moves him out.

 

I hope he proves me wrong, but he won't. Trade plz.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Fat man isn't done. he just misses manny.

If Ortiz is seriously sulking because the team cancer pissed his way out of town, that's reason enough to start looking for his replacement.

[BoSox21]

he's going to keep holding back the offense until Francona finally grows a brain and realizes that he isn't producing a f***ing thing and moves him out.

 

They're second in the AL in runs scored and averaging 5.6 runs a game, which is higher than any average since 2004. He is struggling but to say he is holding back the offense is just flat out wrong.

[TheKilo]

What good does moving Ortiz down the order do?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

They're second in the AL in runs scored and averaging 5.6 runs a game' date=' which is higher than any average since 2004. He is struggling but to say he is holding back the offense is just flat out wrong.[/quote']

And they could be scoring more. Holding the offense back doesn't automatically mean the offense is bad, it means what it says -- Ortiz is holding the offense back from doing more.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

What good does moving Ortiz down the order do?

Gets him out of the three spot.

[SCM33]

That will go over well. His whole world came crashing down by trading away his pacifier, I am sure moving him down in the order wont alienate him even further from the FO and the rest of the club.

[TheKilo]

Gets him out of the three spot.

 

Didn't answer the question.

 

PS - How you holding up after yesterday's news?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Didn't answer the question.

 

Does it help Ortiz? No. But its better for the offense, because maybe someone like Bay or Youk could move in there and prove to be much more productive than the black hole that is Ortiz.

 

SCM33 - If Ortiz is enough of a baby where he'll bitch and moan about being moved down in the order, when he couldn't hit a beach ball for f***s sake, then that in itself is a good reason to start the search for his replacement.

 

PS - How you holding up after yesterday's news?

 

Pardon?

[TheKilo]

Does it help Ortiz? No. But its better for the offense' date=' because maybe someone like Bay or Youk could move in there and prove to be much more productive than the black hole that is Ortiz.[/quote']

 

In terms of runs, wins, how much impact do you think this move has?

 

 

 

 

 

Pardon?

 

Manuel.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

In terms of runs' date=' wins, how much impact do you think this move has?[/quote']

 

Can't give a concrete number on runs and wins, but I do think we would grab our fair share of wins simply because I don't think we'd fall behind early as often (granted you can also attribute that to the starting pitching).

Manuel.

 

I'll live.

[schillingouttheks]

In terms of runs' date=' wins, how much impact do you think this move has?[/quote']

 

1 or, MAYBE, 2. Not significant.

[example1]

Can't give a concrete number on runs and wins, but I do think we would grab our fair share of wins simply because I don't think we'd fall behind early as often (granted you can also attribute that to the starting pitching).

 

 

I'll live.

 

I remember being introduced to you last trade deadline when you were freaking out about having traded Manny Ramirez, MANNY RAMIREZ, for some schlub named Jason Bay. You remember that Jacoby? You were so certain that the trade was a horrible one and that the Sox got hosed. How ya feeling now buddy?

[castigs850]

someone like Bay or Youk could move in there and prove to be much more productive than the black hole that is Ortiz.

 

thats racist, WHITE FLIGHT f***!

[Redguitar985]

If Francona doesn't want to move Ortiz out of the #3 spot, maybe it's because he's afraid he'd have to shift the whole lineup. He's shown that he really likes the lefty-righty-lefty-righty setup. If he moved Papi but kept that setup, I guess it would have to be Drew hitting #3, Papi hitting #5?

 

If he switched it to righty-lefty-righty-lefty, he could put Youk or Bay in the #3, but then he'd probably have Pedroia leadoff, Ellsbury second?

[Dipre]

If Francona doesn't want to move Ortiz out of the #3 spot, maybe it's because he's afraid he'd have to shift the whole lineup. He's shown that he really likes the lefty-righty-lefty-righty setup. If he moved Papi but kept that setup, I guess it would have to be Drew hitting #3, Papi hitting #5?

 

If he switched it to righty-lefty-righty-lefty, he could put Youk or Bay in the #3, but then he'd probably have Pedroia leadoff, Ellsbury second?

 

Thanks, but no thanks.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I remember being introduced to you last trade deadline when you were freaking out about having traded Manny Ramirez' date=' MANNY RAMIREZ, for some schlub named Jason Bay. You remember that Jacoby? You were so certain that the trade was a horrible one and that the Sox got hosed. How ya feeling now buddy? [/quote']

 

*grumbles*

[italstallianion]

I remember being introduced to you last trade deadline when you were freaking out about having traded Manny Ramirez' date=' MANNY RAMIREZ, for some schlub named Jason Bay. You remember that Jacoby? You were so certain that the trade was a horrible one and that the Sox got hosed. How ya feeling now buddy? [/quote']

 

 

Served.

[chakes17]

They should move ortiz down for sure he is horrible right now.

i think the lineup should be

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Bay

Youkilis

Ortiz

Lowell/Drew

Lowell/Drew

Varitek

Lugo/Green/lowrie

[Lil D-Ped]

what exactly is the problem with ortiz? slower swing due to injuries, mechanical flaws, slow start, one-in-a-while injury or just the good old aging process?

[TheKilo]

Can't give a concrete number on runs and wins, but I do think we would grab our fair share of wins simply because I don't think we'd fall behind early as often (granted you can also attribute that to the starting pitching).

 

 

 

You're off base. How many runs would have scored that wouldn't anyway? 10? 20?