Postgame grumblings thread

[ORS]

Guys, don't you think you are giving the umps too much power? Strike zone issues have been part of the game since its inception. There is no good solution like instant replay in football. Like ORS said, the assumption is that calls even out in the end. Calls and no calls is part of what makes this game so great.

 

The stats are a good guide and I am sure there are MLB Corporate geeks that study this stuff. However, at the end of the day it is about weighing the cost and benefits. For instance, would there be a tangible benefit to the game if the balls were micro chipped w/having some sort of sensor near the box that could accurately call a ball and strike? In my opinion, no. Human element is what gives our cherished games greatness. The moment you bring computers into the fray to fix perceived on field "issues" you jeopardize the tenants that made those games great in the 1st place. What fixes to strike zone issues would you guys recommend?

This is where I totally disagree. The human element exists in the game itself. The game produces great drama on its own. A cleanly called close game is every bit as riveting as a poorly called one. Why would you object to the outcome being more legitimate?

[ItRaysAlot]

When you are in marriage, watching sports non-stop becomes difficult. I got 2 uninterrupted hours w/toggling to the game during Lost commercials. If it were the ALDS or ALCS, it would be a different story. Gotta pick my spots.

 

With the rare exception of some ref debacles such as the NBA ref from a year or two ago, I believe officials do desire to be in the background. I have no clue about the "Hawk" system as I don't watch tennis. Look, perceptions of a “liberal” strike zone have spurred this entire thread. Calls one way or another is fuel for sports nuts and ESPN to talk sports. You take away "human element" and you are left w/less to discuss. I personally don't want a perfect game. I want the agony of being pissed at refs for s*** calls such as Bert Emmanuel’s catch w/a minute left in the NFC Championship game against the Rams. I also want the highs of getting calls too. It is part of the emotional rollercoaster of being a sports fan.

[ItRaysAlot]

This is where I totally disagree. The human element exists in the game itself. The game produces great drama on its own. A cleanly called close game is every bit as riveting as a poorly called one. Why would you object to the outcome being more legitimate?

 

ORS...to say a game is not legitimate implies a degree of corruption. This is where I disagree. I don't think refs/umps want to change an outcome of a game. They are just as human as the rest of us and will have good and bad days at the "office".

[ORS]

That's BS. You don't get a high from getting the call. You get the fan-high from your team winning. Have you ever really said, "YES! That bad call went in our favor!" ... or was it ... "YES! Touchdown!" (or HR or whatever)? You are lying if it's the former.

 

Maybe it's just me, but the ultimate fan-high is when they win and you know it was clean, and when they lose, I don't like it if it was clean or dirty.

[ORS]

ORS...to say a game is not legitimate implies a degree of corruption. This is where I disagree. I don't think refs/umps want to change an outcome of a game. They are just as human as the rest of us and will have good and bad days at the "office".

Legitimate -

 

1. according to law; lawful: the property's legitimate owner.

2. in accordance with established rules, principles, or standards.

3. born in wedlock or of legally married parents: legitimate children.

4. in accordance with the laws of reasoning; logically inferable; logical: a legitimate conclusion.

5. resting on or ruling by the principle of hereditary right: a legitimate sovereign.

6. not spurious or unjustified; genuine: It was a legitimate complaint.

 

 

I would say #6 fits my usage. I see no corruption requirement. Everyone perceives words differently, so I don't know what it implies to you, but to me it is what it is, an unjustified result. A poor strikezone call is outside the rules, and a player's "bad day at the office" should decide a competition on the field of play, not the person administering the rules.

[ItRaysAlot]

The point I am trying to make is that "calls" are part of the rollercoaster ride of being a sports fan. You work w/what you have. What we have are refs/umps that get calls wrong. As a reult, it leads to me being happy or pissed depending on the outcome of the occasional controversial call. Don't tell me that Pats fans were not happy w/the infamous "tuck rule" call!! My teams have r/c favorable calls and I can tell you that my chest was pounding in anticipation awaiting the outcome of those calls. Again, part of the rollercoaster ride.

 

Look at the state of the BCS. That is what you get when you instill too much technology in a sport. That is the reason why I don't want MLB to dramatically change things up.

[ORS]

The point I am trying to make is that "calls" are part of the rollercoaster ride of being a sports fan. You work w/what you have. What we have are refs/umps that get calls wrong. As a reult, it leads to me being happy or pissed depending on the outcome of the occasional controversial call. Don't tell me that Pats fans were not happy w/the infamous "tuck rule" call!! My teams have r/c favorable calls and I can tell you that my chest was pounding in anticipation awaiting the outcome of those calls. Again, part of the rollercoaster ride.

 

Look at the state of the BCS. That is what you get when you instill too much technology in a sport. That is the reason why I don't want MLB to dramatically change things up.

You are all over the map here. You like the added drama of "awaiting the outcome" of a reviewed call, but that review system is put in place for exactly what you are arguing against, getting the call right. You don't have that system if the mindset of embracing the "human element" from those administering the rules of the game was widely accepted by the powers that be in the NFL.

[ItRaysAlot]

Point missed and probably my fault for not being clear. Even w/technology, calls are wrong at times. W/little to no technology assistance such as basketball calls are wrong at times. I enjoy the element of waiting for the call whether assisted or not by technology, right or wrong. To me, it is part of the game and since technology in sports has proven to be problematic (BCS), I would rather leave certain games untouched such as baseball. Where you see a broken strike zone system, I see nothing wrong at all.

[Dojji]

Exactly why does a Rays fan care about the ancient traditions of the game?

[Keeper]

If managers are allowed to challenge balls and strikes with a review system, baseball will have officially jumped the shark, like Lost about 2 seasons ago.

[ORS]

I agree, but we haven't embarked on getting into the specifics of how an improvement would be made, just whether the improvement is needed. I think many people are overly dismissive of the impact a missed strikezone call can have. Again, just looking at the AL, you are talking about a swing of .200 OPS points just on the first pitch. From there, the impact is magnified. This is no minor differential, IMO.

[BoSox21]

I'm just in favor of any alterations to the game that further enable a player and team's skill level to win out as often as possible and inconsistent strike zones severely hinder a player's talent at seeing the ball

[yeszir]

Exactly why does a Rays fan care about the ancient traditions of the game?

 

I feel like sometimes we're too hard on Rays fans. A lot (most) of them are blowhard idiots, but it's not like they were all attempting to piss on Cy Young's grave before they got their team.

[rician blast]

If managers are allowed to challenge balls and strikes with a review system' date=' baseball will have officially jumped the shark, like Lost about 2 seasons ago.[/quote']

 

Lost jumped it when they found the underground lair and someone started seeing Unicorns....what was that....the 5th episode?

[Cocos Disciples]

Well I'm taking my ball and going home now.

[Dojji]

We nearly won this game with only two hitters. This teams' gotta get on the ball, but I don't think that we have too much to worry about in the long run.

 

I mean, heck, we've come out to much slower starts in the past.

[Redguitar985]

Man, the Rays just know how to beat the Sox at Fenway now. There aren't many teams that can say that.

[ORS]

It's good to be selective, get a good pitch to hit and all that, but I think they need to move the lumber a little more. Lots of looking K's, and they are getting stuck having to hit pitcher's pitches after letting a hittable pitch go by for a called strike.

 

IIRC, Magadan was known as a player for his selectivity, so the approach of the team makes sense from the perspective of how he played. I think to some degree, they may be taking that approach too far.

[TheKilo]

Drew and Lowrie are disappointing and Lowell failed in a clutch spot.

 

Oh yeah DiceK sucked too.

[a700hitter]

We nearly won this game with only two hitters. This teams' gotta get on the ball, but I don't think that we have too much to worry about in the long run.

 

I mean, heck, we've come out to much slower starts in the past.

Agreed. This is a very strong team. They should cut through the weaker teams like a hot knife through butter. I have a couple of things that make me uneasy. The 1st is whether Dice K spent too manuy bullets at that stupid meaningless WBC. The second is a concern about Ellsbury's consistency in the leadoff spot. If he has 2 hot months hitting .340 and he hits .220 the rest of the time that could have a devastating effect on run production.

[Mr Crunchy]

Ellsbury has to produce or we are in deeeep s***, if he hits 300 we score 900-950 runs.

if he dont then we got to tinker with the order a bit and move his ass down, coco crisp was a better ballplayer than ells was last year for the most part.

Hes been subpar since last April and the effects are obvious.

The dice man will be fine, 3 hrs is an issue of course but i think our worries will be more offensive related than pitching related this summer.Dice never looks like hes a winner, i cant even watch him pitch with all that f***ing nibbling but all he does is win.

Matt Garza has owned us for quite a while, he beat us so bad last year in the playoffs i used his name to lead off my dads eulogy the monday after he beat us in game 7.

want to wake a funeral up and get a few laughs while making the priest nervous??

Start a eulogy by mumbling into the microphone ""matt f***in garza""....

It wont get you into heaven any quicker but it will make sad people smile and laugh

[das11209]

The foundation of this team is pitching(starting + bullpen) and defense and just enough offense. If we have problems with pitching and defense - we will not win - period. Unlike the Yankees - who might be able to hit their way to win even if their pitching does not show up. I think the way this team has been constructured - they will struggle to score more than 6 runs consistently. That gives very little room for errors for other areas of the game.

[TheKilo]

You're a f***ing idiot. Just stop already. You've beat this dead horse since you joined this board.

 

What would you have this team do? Seriously.

[das11209]

You're a f***ing idiot. Just stop already. You've beat this dead horse since you joined this board.

 

What would you have this team do? Seriously.

 

Actually to be exact - I started bitching about offense last year - and this year I am not complaining.

 

I am saying that if the pitching and defense does not work out as intended - no way we will win - you disagree?

[TheKilo]

Actually to be exact - I started bitching about offense last year - and this year I am not complaining.

 

I am saying that if the pitching and defense does not work out as intended - no way we will win - you disagree?

 

Answer my question first douchebag.

 

What would you have the Sox do?

[das11209]

Answer my question first douchebag.

 

What would you have the Sox do?

 

You mean what they can do now? Nothing I guess - just hope things(pitching etc.) work out. Hopefully make a trade at the deadline if someone is available.

[ORS]

I think every team in MLB is going to struggle to score more than 6 runs consistently, at least if you use an acceptable definition of "consistently" that will be the case. Consistently means reliable, steady, constant....meaning you'd have to push the limits and apply a loose definition to have it mean 50% of the time, which would make it the median and close to the mean. That means we are back to where das is using a 960 run offense as the measuring stick. Nobody has surpassed that amount since 2003, and I don't think anyone will this year.

[TheKilo]

You mean what they can do now? Nothing I guess - just hope things(pitching etc.) work out. Hopefully make a trade at the deadline if someone is available.

 

What should they have done

[das11209]

I think every team in MLB is going to struggle to score more than 6 runs consistently' date=' at least if you use an acceptable definition of "consistently" that will be the case. Consistently means reliable, steady, constant....meaning you'd have to push the limits and apply a loose definition to have it mean 50% of the time, which would make it the median and close to the mean. That means we are back to where das is using a 960 run offense as the measuring stick. Nobody has surpassed that amount since 2003, and I don't think anyone will this year.[/quote']

 

Most teams will struggle ORS - not much doubt about that. As I said - our offense is OK only if pitching can do what it is supposed to. I gave the example of the Yankees where though they have a fantastic starting pitching - the offense can ( and will ) carry the team if the pitching falters. Our margin of error is less than them. Add to that that we are in the toughest division, the Yankees have improved ( and we have not) and Tampa does not look like they lost a bit from last year. So our benchmark should be better than the rest of the league.

 

I understand that it is not 2003 any more. I am not looking to see long balls every night - just saying what the team has to do to win that's all.

[TheKilo]

Complaints with no solutions.

 

So bad.