2009 Yankees Game Thread

[Cocos Disciples]

Our ace can beat up your ace.

 

Well, probably not.

[diony]

Our ace can beat up your ace.

In October, sure.

[The_Destroyah]

Our ace can beat up your ace.

 

their ace could beat ours in a hot dog eating contest.

not only can he throw alot of cheese, he can eat alot of cheese too.

[Dutchy]

In October' date=' sure.[/quote']

 

Case in point. A Yankees fan making a goodhearted joke.

[The_Destroyah]

Case in point. A Yankees fan making a goodhearted joke.

 

I never said i didnt want them here i just dont get why they would want to be here, this isnt the most friendly place for the Yanks fans.

[Dutchy]

RBI single for Harris. Here come the Twins!

 

10-2

[Dutchy]

I never said i didnt want them here i just dont get why they would want to be here' date=' this isnt the most friendly place for the Yanks fans.[/quote']

 

I wasn't trying to disprove anything you said, just demonstrating that not all Yankees fans here act like Jacko.

[The_Destroyah]

this is true

[Dutchy]

Yanks have won 11 of their last 13. Guess we'll have to wait at least another day for them to come back down to earth.

[a700hitter]

Yanks have won 11 of their last 13. Guess we'll have to wait at least another day for them to come back down to earth.

...and they are still in second place.

[The_Destroyah]

...and they are still in second place.

 

I prefer to think of them as being the 1st loser

[Dutchy]

...and they are still in second place.

 

Hence why I'm not too worried about them. They performed well above their ability in May, they're performing well above their ability now. And we're still in 1st. That stuff evens out. I'm sure they'll perform well below their ability at some point this season and we'll get a chance to pad our lead.

[yankees228]

Hence why I'm not too worried about them. They performed well above their ability in May' date=' they're performing well above their ability now. And we're still in 1st. That stuff evens out. I'm sure they'll perform well below their ability at some point this season and we'll get a chance to pad our lead.[/quote']

 

Couldn't you also make the argument though that the Red Sox have performed well above their ability against the Yankees...

 

Each of those games represents a two game swing in the standings, so they are obviously extremely important.

[Dutchy]

Couldn't you also make the argument though that the Red Sox have performed well above their ability against the Yankees...

 

Each of those games represents a two game swing in the standings, so they are obviously extremely important.

 

Yes, but that's an 8 game sample sizes as opposed to the Yankees month of May and now their last 13 games. And each one of those games represents 1 game in the standings, not 2.

 

When you ask any objective fan what wins baseball games, they'll answer pitching. And the Red Sox have the better pitching, so I'd trust them more over the full haul of a season. Offenses get hot and cold (as we've seen by the Yankees ups and downs) but pitching remains relatively constant.

 

The Yankees do well when their offense overperforms and struggles when they underperform. The Red Sox have had a pretty steady improving record since April when Beckett and Lester came around.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd say that the pitching has become rather even to be honest with you. The difference in starter's ERA is 0.14 and that includes the three absolute stinkers from Wang to start the yr which absolutely skew the results. I know the sox had some DiceK stinkers, some Beckett stinkers, and some Lester stinkers in April. But the Wang level of suck in April was legendary. But after April, the pitching has been very much the same

 

May staff ERA

Yankees- 4.28

Red Sox- 4.41

 

June staff ERA

Yankees- 3.55

Red Sox- 3.44

 

July staff ERA

Yankees- 4.11

Red Sox- 4.04

 

So I certainly wouldnt agree with the statement that the pitching has been significantly different either way. Also, considering the fact that we were without our best player for a 28 game stretch had something to do with it as well. In ARod's absence, we were 13-15. With Arod back, we are 36-19 for a .655 win %. That is a bit more than just a hot spell.

 

Also, I would say that the sox have had a ton of luck against us, but at the same time, they did have the bullpen that has been able to lock leads down. And in our 3 series vs Boston, that had been the difference. We'd have a lead, then we'd give it up and the sox would hold onto it. It was like clockwork.

 

So, overall, I'd say we are very similar teams. The Yankees and Sox have very similar pitching with the Yankees having the better offense. It's gonna come down to the wire again, I think we all know this.

[Dutchy]

I'd say that the pitching has become rather even to be honest with you. The difference in starter's ERA is 0.14 and that includes the three absolute stinkers from Wang to start the yr which absolutely skew the results. I know the sox had some DiceK stinkers, some Beckett stinkers, and some Lester stinkers in April. But the Wang level of suck in April was legendary. But after April, the pitching has been very much the same

 

May staff ERA

Yankees- 4.28

Red Sox- 4.41

 

June staff ERA

Yankees- 3.55

Red Sox- 3.44

 

July staff ERA

Yankees- 4.11

Red Sox- 4.04

 

So I certainly wouldnt agree with the statement that the pitching has been significantly different either way. Also, considering the fact that we were without our best player for a 28 game stretch had something to do with it as well. In ARod's absence, we were 13-15. With Arod back, we are 36-19 for a .655 win %. That is a bit more than just a hot spell.

 

Also, I would say that the sox have had a ton of luck against us, but at the same time, they did have the bullpen that has been able to lock leads down. And in our 3 series vs Boston, that had been the difference. We'd have a lead, then we'd give it up and the sox would hold onto it. It was like clockwork.

 

So, overall, I'd say we are very similar teams. The Yankees and Sox have very similar pitching with the Yankees having the better offense. It's gonna come down to the wire again, I think we all know this.

 

The difference in team ERA is 0.34. It also includes Daisuke's starts, Beckett's 7.22 ERA in April and Lester's 5.40 April and even worse May which also skew the stats. Since May, the Red Sox have had a team ERA of 3.55, which is more than half a run better than their ERA on the season. Overall, the Red Sox rank 3rd in the AL in team ERA, the Yankees rank 11th. That's certainly a larger differential than the Yankees ranking 1st in the league in runs scored and the Red Sox ranking 3rd.

In fact, the Red Sox have allowed 45 less runs than the Yankees, and they've scored 30 less runs. So if you're trying to claim the pitching is similar but the offense isn't, then you're being a homer.

 

And don't give me the injury bull. We were without Youkilis who was leading the league in AVG, OBP and SLG at the time he got hurt, we're without Lowell now and we haven't had Lowrie all year. We've had just as many injuries to our starting lineup as you guys.

 

Of course your team has a better record when your best hitter's in the lineup. What does that prove? When Youkilis was on the DL we were 7-6, when he hasn't been on the DL we're 43-27 (.717). Wow, what a shocker.

 

Enough excuses already! We don't have the best record in the AL on accident.

[jacksonianmarch]

Since May, the sox and yankees have an almost identical ERA

 

and your win % with youk is .614, not .717

[yankees228]

Yes, but that's an 8 game sample sizes as opposed to the Yankees month of May and now their last 13 games. And each one of those games represents 1 game in the standings, not 2.

 

When you ask any objective fan what wins baseball games, they'll answer pitching. And the Red Sox have the better pitching, so I'd trust them more over the full haul of a season. Offenses get hot and cold (as we've seen by the Yankees ups and downs) but pitching remains relatively constant.

 

The Yankees do well when their offense overperforms and struggles when they underperform. The Red Sox have had a pretty steady improving record since April when Beckett and Lester came around.

 

I don't disagree with your reasoning why the Red Sox are the better team. If I had to make a prediction, I would say the Red Sox win the division and the Yankees win the wild card. I would be thrilled with that outcome.

 

The reason I say they represent two games is that lets say, for example, the Red Sox were only 7-1 this year against the Yankees. The Yankees would actually be winning the division by a game if that were the case. When you look back on it, those games represent a two game swing. The main reason the Red Sox are ahead of the Yankees is because of those eight games. The Yankees have been significantly better against everyone else than the Red Sox have. If the Yankees are able to play .500 ball against the Red Sox the rest of the season, they really have a good chance to win the division, especially if both team continue to play the same against everyone else.

 

However, like I said before, I think the Red Sox are a better team right now than the Yankees because of starting pitcher.

[yankees228]

I'd say that the pitching has become rather even to be honest with you. The difference in starter's ERA is 0.14 and that includes the three absolute stinkers from Wang to start the yr which absolutely skew the results. I know the sox had some DiceK stinkers, some Beckett stinkers, and some Lester stinkers in April. But the Wang level of suck in April was legendary. But after April, the pitching has been very much the same

 

May staff ERA

Yankees- 4.28

Red Sox- 4.41

 

June staff ERA

Yankees- 3.55

Red Sox- 3.44

 

July staff ERA

Yankees- 4.11

Red Sox- 4.04

 

So I certainly wouldnt agree with the statement that the pitching has been significantly different either way. Also, considering the fact that we were without our best player for a 28 game stretch had something to do with it as well. In ARod's absence, we were 13-15. With Arod back, we are 36-19 for a .655 win %. That is a bit more than just a hot spell.

 

Also, I would say that the sox have had a ton of luck against us, but at the same time, they did have the bullpen that has been able to lock leads down. And in our 3 series vs Boston, that had been the difference. We'd have a lead, then we'd give it up and the sox would hold onto it. It was like clockwork.

 

So, overall, I'd say we are very similar teams. The Yankees and Sox have very similar pitching with the Yankees having the better offense. It's gonna come down to the wire again, I think we all know this.

 

I think it's unfair to really blame the bullpen for the 0-8 start against the Red Sox. The first game was blown by Mariano Rivera. The second game, although Jonathan Albaledejo blew a one run lead in the seventh, is really more on AJ Burnett than anything else (6-0 lead). The only game where you can really fault the bullpen is the last game, although that is just as much on CC as it is on the bullpen.

[Gom]

I love how the Sox fans are touting their better record, but that could change...TODAY. A one game lead before the All-Star break, and if you listen to them, you'd think they were running away with the division.

 

The truth of the matter is the teams are much closer to each other than most of you think. The bullpens are pretty much a wash, the Yankees have a slight edge in offense, the Red Sox have a slight edge in the rotation, and defense is once again a wash overall. It's funny that the least heralded of the three off-season acquisitions for both teams are showing the most production [burnett for us, Penny for you]. Both of us have an Asian flop [Wang and Dice]. Both of us lost our most explosive hitter [Arod and Youk].

 

These teams are very, very close. The best statement in the whole thread is this one

The Yankees are a better team than the Red Sox right now' date=' but they just can't beat us.[/quote']

 

See if any of you actually understand this caveat of wisdom.

[Dipre]

I love how the Sox fans are touting their better record, but that could change...TODAY. A one game lead before the All-Star break, and if you listen to them, you'd think they were running away with the division.

 

The truth of the matter is the teams are much closer to each other than most of you think. The bullpens are pretty much a wash, the Yankees have a slight edge in offense, the Red Sox have a slight edge in the rotation, and defense is once again a wash overall. It's funny that the least heralded of the three off-season acquisitions for both teams are showing the most production [burnett for us, Penny for you]. Both of us have an Asian flop [Wang and Dice]. Both of us lost our most explosive hitter [Arod and Youk].

 

These teams are very, very close. The best statement in the whole thread is this one

 

 

See if any of you actually understand this caveat of wisdom.

 

Fantastic.

 

You've just broken the ******** meter.

 

No one is saying the Red Sox are head and shoulders better than the Yankees, but that, in fact, the Sox have the better record and run differential, meaning they currently seem to have brought all elements of the game better than the Yankees.

 

Right now, basically because of health, the Yankees are a better ballclub, however, let's wait for the Red Sox' walking wounded squad.

[Gom]

And how is that run differential if you take out Wang's three starts?

 

I contend the following: If the Yankees split the remaining games with the Red Sox, we win the division by 5 games.

[Dipre]

And how is that run differential if you take out Wang's three starts?

 

I contend the following: If the Yankees split the remaining games with the Red Sox, we win the division by 5 games.

 

I contend the following.

 

The Yankees don't split their remaining games with the Red Sox.

 

Oh, and Dice-K anyone?

[BoSox21]

And how is that run differential if you take out Wang's three starts?

 

Probably about the same if you stack them up with Dice-K's starts and Penny's 2-3 godawful starts at the beginning of the year. This could go on all day.

[TheKilo]

And how is that run differential if you take out Wang's three starts?

 

I contend the following: If the Yankees split the remaining games with the Red Sox, we win the division by 5 games.

 

I'd take that bet in a heartbeat

[TedWilliams101]

And how is that run differential if you take out Wang's three starts?

 

I contend the following: If the Yankees split the remaining games with the Red Sox, we win the division by 5 games.

 

How about the 8 starts Dice-K made with that 8.23 ERA and 2.2 WHIP? How about the first four starts Penny made, where he gave up 21 runs in just 17 2/3 innings? How about Lester's slow start, giving up 5+ runs in 6 of his first 10 starts? Or those back-to-back starts Beckett made in April, giving up 7 and 8 earned runs?

 

We could play this game all day, it is pointless. You can't throw out "outlier" stats from one team and compare them to another team's full stats. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Also, if we Sox-Yankees split the rest of the series, how does that give the Yankees a 5 game lead?... You just flat out made that up.

[jacksonianmarch]

So now you are going to contend that it is health setting aside the sox and the yankees? You guys had your chance.

 

ARod missed 28 games

Posada missed 24 days with a hammy injury

Bruney missed most of two months with elbow problems

Our backup catcher, Molina, has been out for two months.

We had a rookie catcher who hadnt played above AA ball starting for the better portion of 3 weeks.

We have lost Nady for the season

Wang missed a large chunk of time and figures to be out for another month.

 

Right now, for the red sox, the only injuries that matter are to Lowell and to DiceK. And neither are guaranteed to return to the level of their previous performance. Lowell has an arthritic hip that is irritated to a point that he is getting joint effusions. DiceK has a shoulder issue and a mental hiccup that seems to be a big hangup for him. If you are going to hang your hat on them alone and then cry foul, I am sorry. Neither of those guys are absolutely critical to your team. Now, you did lose Youk for 13 games, but you made do.

 

For the most part, I will ride the ebb and flow of the season because it seems that both our teams are riding relatively highly these days. But dont fool yourselves. This yankee team is a different team than they were in April when we were 2 games under .500 and struggling to score or get good pen work. And over that period of time, we have been the best team in baseball and nearly 5 games better than the sox. Even when you include the 3 game sweep awhile back. I do think the yankees are the better team. I thought it in ST. I think it now. I think that over the rest of the season, it will bear out. I also think that the sox are the second best team in baseball even though they have a 1 game lead on us. I have a feeling both of us will be meeting in the playoffs and I hope to god that our regular season record doesnt reflect the potential outcome of that meeting when it all counts.

[jacksonianmarch]

How about the 8 starts Dice-K made with that 8.23 ERA and 2.2 WHIP? How about the first four starts Penny made, where he gave up 21 runs in just 17 2/3 innings? How about Lester's slow start, giving up 5+ runs in 6 of his first 10 starts? Or those back-to-back starts Beckett made in April, giving up 7 and 8 earned runs?

 

We could play this game all day, it is pointless. You can't throw out "outlier" stats from one team and compare them to another team's full stats. It just doesn't work that way.

 

Also, if we Sox-Yankees split the rest of the series, how does that give the Yankees a 5 game lead?... You just flat out made that up.

 

I think he was taking what the lead would be if the sox lost half the games we played to this point and projected that forward. If the yankees and sox had split our 8 games thus far, we would be 7 games up on you guys.

[BoSox21]

I do think the yankees are the better team. I thought it in ST. I think it now. I think that over the rest of the season' date=' it will bear out. I also think that the sox are the second best team in baseball even though they have a 1 game lead on us. I have a feeling both of us will be meeting in the playoffs and I hope to god that our regular season record doesnt reflect the potential outcome of that meeting when it all counts.[/quote']

 

I think that's a very fair assessment actually even if it comes from a trolling prick.

[Dutchy]

I love how the Sox fans are touting their better record, but that could change...TODAY. A one game lead before the All-Star break, and if you listen to them, you'd think they were running away with the division.

 

The truth of the matter is the teams are much closer to each other than most of you think. The bullpens are pretty much a wash, the Yankees have a slight edge in offense, the Red Sox have a slight edge in the rotation, and defense is once again a wash overall. It's funny that the least heralded of the three off-season acquisitions for both teams are showing the most production [burnett for us, Penny for you]. Both of us have an Asian flop [Wang and Dice]. Both of us lost our most explosive hitter [Arod and Youk].

 

These teams are very, very close. The best statement in the whole thread is this one

 

 

See if any of you actually understand this caveat of wisdom.

 

Actually, the Red Sox could lose and the Yankees could win and the Red Sox would still have the best record in the AL.

 

Yeah, other than the .85 difference in bullpen ERA, the bullpens are a wash. Whatever you say Gom.