2009 Yankees Game Thread

[example1]

While you're at it' date=' why don't you also send them the tape of Phil Coke walking Trevor Crowe to lead off the inning?[/quote']

 

I thought it was a little unfair when the umpire turned Girardi around on his way to the mound when he was going to put Rivera in.

 

Also, did you guys notice the umpire first moving A-Rod toward 2nd and then moving the 3B line on that last basehit? ********. Serious ********.

[yankees228]

Terrible decision by Girardi in my opinion. You have the top of the order coming up in the 10th. That is going to be your best chance to win the game, so you have got to find a way to get there.

 

Once Cabrera bunted Crowe to second, you had the heart of the order coming up with a chance to win the game. Go to Rivera for the final two outs of the 9th, and then hope that the top of the order could produce a run in the top of the 10th.

[a700hitter]

Hughes looks really good' date=' just frustrating about the runs.[/quote']

His line 5-IP 4-ER 5-H 1-BB 6-K

 

Does this look really good?

[yankees228]

I thought it was a little unfair when the umpire turned Girardi around on his way to the mound when he was going to put Rivera in.

 

Also, did you guys notice the umpire first moving A-Rod toward 2nd and then moving the 3B line on that last basehit? ********. Serious ********.

 

I'm not going to go nearly as far as Jackson and say the umps cost the Yankees the game. However, the two calls that he's talking about were influential in the outcome. It's just frustrating. I don't see how you guys could have a problem with that attitude.

 

As for the bunts, not many, but he's got the speed to do it. I don't think it's a great play, but you're making it out to be a terrible thing.

[a700hitter]

this run should be unearned. Inning should be over if Gardner played the double appropriately

You were a one man whine-fest today. This had nothing to do with the umps that your CF sucks.

[yankees228]

His line 5-IP 4-ER 5-H 1-BB 6-K

 

Does this look really good?

 

Ah, we're going to have this discussion again, I see. He is showing a lot of promise. The strikeouts are a good sign, as are the lack of walks.

 

If we take a look at the first three runs, it's not like he got hit all around the ballpark. The double to Crowe was entirely his fault, but the single to Cabrera, which was the hit that really put Hughes in trouble, was lucky. It was a very good cutter, in on the hands, that Cabrera blooped into the outfield. After that I completely blame Hughes for losing Francisco, and then giving up the two run single to Peralta. They then scored the third run, mainly, because Hughes came a little too far inside to Choo on an 0-2 pitch. The HBP is on Hughes, but it's just unfortunate.

 

As for the fourth run, that is due, completely, to Gardner misplaying the ball in center field.

 

He threw the ball really well today. That is what I was talking about, but he is still making some mistakes. Again, it's encouraging that he seemed to throw the ball quite well today.

[diony]

I've watched a lot of the game. The name of this thread should be changed to the "Whiny Game Thread".

 

Like the Sox threads.

[example1]

His line 5-IP 4-ER 5-H 1-BB 6-K

 

Does this look really good?

 

When Lester does it he's "getting pounded", but it's a good start for Hughes.

[diony]

His line 5-IP 4-ER 5-H 1-BB 6-K

 

Does this look really good?

 

Better than last year.

[a700hitter]

Ah, we're going to have this discussion again, I see. He is showing a lot of promise. The strikeouts are a good sign, as are the lack of walks.

 

If we take a look at the first three runs, it's not like he got hit all around the ballpark. The double to Crowe was entirely his fault, but the single to Cabrera, which was the hit that really put Hughes in trouble, was lucky. It was a very good cutter, in on the hands, that Cabrera blooped into the outfield. After that I completely blame Hughes for losing Francisco, and then giving up the two run single to Peralta. They then scored the third run, mainly, because Hughes came a little too far inside to Choo on an 0-2 pitch. The HBP is on Hughes, but it's just unfortunate.

 

As for the fourth run, that is due, completely, to Gardner misplaying the ball in center field.

 

He threw the ball really well today. That is what I was talking about, but he is still making some mistakes. Again, it's encouraging that he seemed to throw the ball quite well today.

All of that good stuff made him a loser and increased his 5+ ERA.

[yankees228]

When Lester does it he's "getting pounded"' date=' but it's a good start for Hughes.[/quote']

 

I would love to see where I've made a statement like that.

 

Again, my main point is that there are positives that can be taken from his outing today. Is that an absurd conclusion?

 

And also, for how big a deal you have made about our comments regarding the calls today, do you have an issue with my assessment of it in an earlier post?

[a700hitter]

When Lester does it he's "getting pounded"' date=' but it's a good start for Hughes.[/quote']When Lester does it, we are debating how many more starts he should get before he is yanked from the rotation. When Hughes does it, they are alerting the Yankeeography production crew.

[yankees228]

All of that good stuff made him a loser and increased his 5+ ERA.

 

Look, I don't see what there is for us to be disagreeing about. His final line, in terms of ERs, leaves a lot to be desired. However, there are things about his outing that are very encouraging moving forward.

[a700hitter]

Look' date=' I don't see what there is for us to be disagreeing about. His final line, in terms of ERs, leaves a lot to be desired. However, there are things about his outing that are very encouraging moving forward.[/quote']You must have low standards. Every time that I would look at him, I would see Johan and I would be furious that Hughes sucks.

[yankees228]

You must have low standards. Every time that I would look at him' date=' I would see Johan and I would be furious that Hughes sucks.[/quote']

 

Haha, unfortunately, that is a thought that passes through my head every now and then.

 

However, I feel like you're ignoring the point I'm making. His final line was disappointing, but for someone making their 28th career start, their were encouraging signs.

[diony]

You must have low standards. Every time that I would look at him' date=' I would see Johan and I would be furious that Hughes sucks.[/b']

 

Then you remember than CC Sabathia is on your team.

[example1]

Then you remember than CC Sabathia is on your team.

 

Could have had both, right?

[Gom]

When are people going to realize that Hughes is not the answer?

 

I don't blame the umps today. One bad call at first base, and Shoppach did a nice job framing today. I am totally shocked that Posada is trying to frame pitches.

 

What's really funny is that Michael Kay asked Posada what he did when he was hurt, and he told him he watched every single game. The announcers were killing Posada's defense behind the plate, maybe he actually listened.

 

Every time I see Hughes, I see what should have been Santana. It's really not fair to the kid, it wasn't his fault he wasn't traded. He's just not that good. I wonder if he'd be an effective bullpen pitcher. He can't be any worse than Veras.

[Cocos Disciples]

Wang looked pretty good, his velocity seemed to be higher (at least from the TBS guns).

[yankees228]

Gardner ignored the sign to steal yesterday in the 9th inning, because he was afraid of getting picked off (according to what I heard on the postgame). That may very well have cost the Yankees the game.

[CrespoBlows]

When are people going to realize that Hughes is not the answer?

 

I don't blame the umps today. One bad call at first base, and Shoppach did a nice job framing today. I am totally shocked that Posada is trying to frame pitches.

 

What's really funny is that Michael Kay asked Posada what he did when he was hurt, and he told him he watched every single game. The announcers were killing Posada's defense behind the plate, maybe he actually listened.

 

Every time I see Hughes, I see what should have been Santana. It's really not fair to the kid, it wasn't his fault he wasn't traded. He's just not that good. I wonder if he'd be an effective bullpen pitcher. He can't be any worse than Veras.

 

Cite evidence that proves your point.

 

There's not a shred of evidence that would suggest that some catchers have a higher percentage of called strikes than other catchers. You are taking a missed call by an umpire, and then take the incredible leap of attributing a wildly overinflated figure to the value of framing pitches.

[Gom]

Cite evidence that proves your point.

 

There's not a shred of evidence that would suggest that some catchers have a higher percentage of called strikes than other catchers. You are taking a missed call by an umpire, and then take the incredible leap of attributing a wildly overinflated figure to the value of framing pitches.

 

Sure there is. It's called CERA. The Yankees CERA is much lower when anyone but Posada catches. I've always said the defensive contributions of a catcher are VASTLY underrated. In my opinion, the most important defensive player, by far, is the catcher [not including the pitcher].

[ORS]

You've been told why CERA is pretty close to worthless and have yet to address the criticisms.

 

Anyway, has anyone ever seen Jeremy Sowers and Eli Manning in the same room?

[Gom]

You've been told why CERA is pretty close to worthless and have yet to address the criticisms.

 

Anyway, has anyone ever seen Jeremy Sowers and Eli Manning in the same room?

 

CERA is not worthless in the least when comparing catchers on the same team. If you really think that catchers behind the plate don't make a significant difference, then I don't really think you understand the game, my friend.

 

Refresh my memory..what exactly are the criticisms of CERA you would like me to address.

[ORS]

I never said catchers have no impact, so quit sucking your own dick with that strawman.

 

How do you make the biggest contributing control variable, the performance of the pitcher, equal for both catchers, even on the same team? Backups tend to get tied to one member of the rotation and then pickup day games after night games. How their usual battery-mate pitches will be the biggest contributing factor to their CERA. Look at who the Yankees' best pitcher was last year, the one you think proves your case, and then look at which catcher caught the majority of his games. Then, just for the fun of it, look at who caught most of Kennedy's and Hughes' games. Think that might throw the results off a bit? It's a worthless stat for catcher comparisons, and since that is the only reason people started tracking it, then it's pretty much worthless overall. This is why no credible baseball analyst cares about it. And no, you aren't in that group.

[Gom]

That's the problem, then isn't it, ORS?

 

You readily admit that catchers have an impact. How significant that impact is, well...that's up for debate.

 

There is no solid statistical matrix for determining the value of a catcher behind the plate. Framing pitches, calling pitches...there is no suitable matrix, according to you.

 

What then? Ignore it exists? The best statistical matrix we have is CERA, and it is fundamentally flawed according to you.

 

So...such a quandry. Maybe actually watching the games? Nah..that would be too easy. While admittedly this type of information would be qualitative and not quantitative in nature, it would be valid. What would stat-heads do? I mean..how could they possibly determine anything on their own? Without logging into websites and quoting the results complex formulas [many of which are fundamentally flawed in their own right], they'd be lost. Confused. Unable to use the information on the internet, and not intelligent enough to form their own opinions, they'd probably denounce it completely or ignore it until someone tells them what to do and think by coming up with another formula. They'd lack the ability/knowledge to formulate an opinion by watching [some would also call it "scouting"].

 

Oh...and I do include you in THAT group.

[ORS]

Or, they'd look at how hitters perform once the count has reached a certain point, and they'd compare the difference across the league and find that one pitch being called a ball or strike would have massive impacts on expected performance from that point on. Then, they'd bring to your attention that the difference is so significant that if the skill were indeed repeatable, it would be measurable and the best would consistently be the best. Of course, you'd ignore that, becuz u watchezz teh gamezzz.

 

BTW, Bill James is one of those that finds little to no value in CERA, and I'd bet the house he's watched more games than you'd ever think to.

[diony]

Joba with a gem so far.

[ORS]

Victor Martinez is not impressed.

[Dipre]

Martinez ties it up with a monster shot.