2009 Yankees Game Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait, sorry. Its Chris Davis. Davis has 10 homers.

[Dipre]

Of course it's Chris Davis.

 

Jesus Christ.

[jacksonianmarch]

8 shutout innings for Hughes

[jacksonianmarch]

got him confused with another former Texas tall guy, Chris Young.

[jacksonianmarch]

101 pitches, I think that was it for Hughes. He earned another start IMO. 2 great starts, 1 good start, 2 below average starts and 1 absolutely terrible start

[a700hitter]

Wait' date=' sorry. Its Chris Davis. Davis has 10 homers.[/quote']He's hitting .200 and k's a lot.

[jacksonianmarch]

that he is. He's scuffling a bit. But he has a lot of power.

[a700hitter]

that he is. He's scuffling a bit. But he has a lot of power.

lots of power does not equate to being a good hiiter.

[Dipre]

lots of power does not equate to being a good hiiter.

 

Willy Mo Pena comes to mind.

[jacksonianmarch]

great game from hughes

[diony]

Phil Franchise

[Gom]

101 pitches' date=' I think that was it for Hughes. He earned another start IMO. 2 great starts, 1 good start, 2 below average starts and 1 absolutely terrible start[/quote']

 

Yeah. Unfortunately for me, I saw that one, and travelled 500+ miles for it. f*** him.

 

Seriously, hopefully he can build on this.

[diony]

against s***** pitchers.

 

New split statistic?

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah. Unfortunately for me, I saw that one, and travelled 500+ miles for it. f*** him.

 

Seriously, hopefully he can build on this.

 

I told you before Gom. He is an unfinished project. Some nights, he will be untouchable. Other nights, he'll be awful. You dont need to teach a pitcher how to be awesome when all of his stuff is working. You need to learn how to pitch when your stuff is off. Hughes hasnt learned that yet.

[jacksonianmarch]

Just for some comparison, David Price got through 3.1IP tonight on 100 pitches. No matter how good the stuff is, you gotta be able to throw it to the right spots. Hughes is learning this. Price will too.

[Gom]

I told you before Gom. He is an unfinished project. Some nights' date=' he will be untouchable. Other nights, he'll be awful. You dont need to teach a pitcher how to be awesome when all of his stuff is working. You need to learn how to pitch when your stuff is off. Hughes hasnt learned that yet.[/quote']

 

Look, I wouldn't have traded him for a deadline deal for a 2 month rental. To get the best pitcher on the planet at the time, it was a no-brainer for me. I'd love to be wrong about Hughes. If he doesn't rack up multiple Cy Youngs, then the Yankees made a huge error. Right now, I think most people believe that if you had put Santana on the team last year instead of Hughes, the Yankees are in the playoffs. Same thing this year. I didn't watch today's game, I was at the town pool, but I don't see any dynamite pitches. A slight plus fastball and curve, an ok cutter, and iffy control. He doesn't "wow" you with an electric fastball like King Felix or great breaking stuff like Price. In fairness, neither did Maddux, but he could put the ball in a teacup.

 

Plus, it isn't really Hughes that makes me hate Cashman. He could have pulled off the Santana deal for Hilligoss, Marquez, Melky and Kennedy. He said "no" to that deal. He should have been fired on the spot for that one.

 

If you can ever find logic to defend that non-deal, I'll eat my hat.

 

Hughes earned another turn in the rotation. Wang needs to pitch at least 3 consecutive innings without giving up a run before I'd want to see him in there over Hughes.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cashman debunked that rumor. Cash said that Hughes was absolutely in the Santana trade discussion. That being said, if Johan was in NYY pinstripes, CC is not a yankee. And to be honest with you, I think CC is the better bet going forward since he's just a horse, he's younger and Santana is built much slighter. We sacrificed one yr. I know, it sucked. But lets say Hughes develops into a #2 and we get 7 yr out of CC as a horse, then it was worth it.

[Gom]

Cashman debunked that rumor. Cash said that Hughes was absolutely in the Santana trade discussion. That being said' date=' if Johan was in NYY pinstripes, CC is not a yankee. And to be honest with you, I think CC is the better bet going forward since he's just a horse, he's younger and Santana is built much slighter. We sacrificed one yr. I know, it sucked. But lets say Hughes develops into a #2 and we get 7 yr out of CC as a horse, then it was worth it.[/quote']

 

Jacko...think for a second. Multiple sources reported it. Secondly, do you really believe that Cashman would admit to the media he made a colossal mistake? You think the Twins would? Both would look like idiots, one for turning down a deal for players who are worth nothing now [with the exception of Melky] and the other for proposing a deal for garbage [even though the deal, as it stood, would have been better for the Twins, because Melky is loads better than Gomez]. Look at what the Mets gave up for Santana...and going by what the players were thought to be valued, the Mets gave up less.

 

Hughes would surprise me if he ended up being anything more than a 3/4, or more likely 4/5 pitcher. A #2? Unlikely. Especially here in New York. However, I have been wrong, and sincerely hope I'm wrong. However, with Joba, CC, and Burnett on this team for at least 5 years [assuming CC doesn't opt out], he'd be lucky to be a #4 here.

[jacksonianmarch]

he will be a #4 here. But I think he'll end up performing better than that. Hell, he has absolutely dominated 2 of the better hitting teams in the league. But he also sucked balls vs the sox and vs the orioles. But the fact that, at 22, he can put up games like he has gives me a lot of hope. I dont know what your sense of a #4 or 5 is, but right now, Hughes is a good #5.

[Gom]

Jacko, he has a 5.16 ERA and a 1.55 WHIP. That's hardly a #5 starter. However, I hope he improves on it as the season progresses.

[jacksonianmarch]

actually, thats better than a #5 starter. Take a look at the averages for #5 starters.

[Gom]

actually' date=' thats better than a #5 starter. Take a look at the averages for #5 starters.[/quote']

 

Besides manually looking, is there a faster way of doing so?

[jacksonianmarch]

Nah, just take a look around the league at the slated #5. I was shocked last yr to see how bad a true #5 is Gom. ORS posted the stats at the latter half of last season and the average ERA was in the 5.8 range.

[jacksonianmarch]

For some examples...

 

The O's #5 was Adam Eaton before they released him this week. His ERA was 8.56

The Sox #5 is Brad Penny. His ERA is 5.96

The Rays #5 is Jeff Niemann. His ERA is 4.53.

The Jays really dont have a #5, as they have 6 pitchers outside of Richmond, Halladay, Litsch, and Tallet who have made starts in the #5 hole (or replacing Litsch)

The White Sox #5 is Colon, and his ERA is 4.23, but has a 1.59WHIP

The Guardians have used Laffey, Sowers, Huff and Lewis in the #5 hole, and their composite ERA is in the 7 range

The Royals #5 is a Ponson, Hochevar split, and their ERAs are 6.49 and 10.80 respectively

The Tigers #5 slot is split between Miner and Willis, and while their composite ERA is in the low 4s, their WHIP combined is 1.65.

Glen Perkins is the #5 in Minny and his ERA is 5.35.

The Angels #5 is Shane Loux and his 5.40 ERA

The A's #5 was Dana Eveland and his 7.40ERA

The Mariners #5 is Jakubauskas and his 6.45ERA

The composite ERA for the Rangers #5's is 5.24.

 

As you can see, Hughes' ERA beats most of them, and if his ERA doesnt, his WHIP does.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you look around baseball, teams try to experiment with their #5 position. If they find something, then great. If they dont, then they can live with a s***** performance 1 out of every 5 times through the rotation until they get it right. I'd say, right now, Hughes is a good #5 starter. I think that his last 2 starts have been encouraging to say the least (13IP 9H 3ER 2BB 15K). And he's had one absolutely ridiculously miserable start that is skewing his stats. I know its difficult to pull one start out of the mix, but lets take that one start against the O's out, and his line looks pretty good...

28IP 24H 9ER 12BB 25K (2.89ERA 1.29WHIP 2.1K/BB 8K/9IP)

[Gom]

Of course, that was the game I went to see in Baltimore. LOL!

 

According to your numbers, it seems like you are correct, he is a decent #5 starter. I guess Wang stays in the pen for now.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wang stays in the pen until he feels comfortable with his delivery and gets that sink on the ball that he used to. Thats the problem with one pitch pitchers. If that pitch were to ever have a decline in effectiveness, the overall production from that pitcher will plummet.

[jacksonianmarch]

Joba still having tough first innings, WTF? Throw the cheese!

[jacksonianmarch]

are you f***ing kidding me Joba? What the f***? his first innings suck so f***ing bad. Hey Eiland, earn your f***ing money you **********. Figure this out.

[jacksonianmarch]

throw your f***ing fastball Joba. What the f*** is this s***