ARod tested positive

[schillingouttheks]

Cool so when i go to a Yankees game, weve got 2 new chants for him. A-Fraud and Steroids

 

Anyways, if there was ever a year for him to rise up and carry the team (especially in October)... this is the season. Since he's been in New York, 1 trip to the ALCS, 3 losing ALDS series, and finishing in 3rd place this past season. Add on the Yankees getting the big 3 free agents, Torre's book and now testing positive for steroids for his 2003 campaign

 

I agree that it's the perfect opportunity for him, but it won't happen. He'll need another 5 shrinks after the 2009 season.

 

Nope according to SI he was warned a couple of weeks ahead of time.

 

... I'm missing your point. That's why he passed his test. A couple weeks for anabolic steroids is more than enough time. Anabolic steroids don't stay in your system for a prolonged period of time.

 

He is not strong enough mentally. His fragile psyche will be his downfall this season.

 

Agreed. To rub it in, the Yankees fans will probably rip him worse than the Red Sox fans if he doesn't produce because of this.

[schillingouttheks]

Threads merged.

[a700hitter]

We may never know the full extent of PED use, and we may never have "proof", but the "maybe none of them did it" theory is absolutely the same head in the sand thought process that had some here proclaiming ARod to someday be the true, clean HR champ.

 

You'd have to be pretty naive not to think that a high % of the guys I have listed, many who's HR totals skyrocketed then fell off equally as fast, didn't juice. Legally, obviously, allegations and indictments require evidence...but we can speculate as we see fit...and IMO to assume they're innocent until proven guilty is a huge leap of faith.

 

WHen I was in my college years,working at a gym (in the 80's) I was approached numerous times by HS and college athletes looking for hard core anabolic products. 'Roids were rampant. When I got to college, many of the college athletes I knew were using stuff. SO by the mid to late 80's I was already suspicious that professional athletes HAD to be using.

 

As usage in MLB increased, and fringe players became stars, and middle infielders hit 40 HRs, and utility players jobs were in jeopardy because players in the minors were bigger, stronger and faster, the usage became epidemic. Players now hit 400 Ft. HRs to the opposite field with virtually one-handed swings. Players necks and heads and arms and legs grew beyond which we know they can grow in the offseason from clean intense training. The stats, the bodies, the players attitudes are some of the indicators.

 

We don't need proof positive here folks...we need only be realistic and objective to know that PED use in MLB extends to far more players than most are willing to admit.

It's like speeding in an automobile. Everybody does it, but it's only a crime for those who get caught. All the speculation means nothing. It only matters for the unlucky ones named in an MLB report or if they are otherwise publicly exposed. But for this leak, the press, with the cooperation of MLB and the Players Union, would have been marketing a "clean" ARod as he broke every record.

[YANKEESRULE]

I agree that it's the perfect opportunity for him, but it won't happen. He'll need another 5 shrinks after the 2009 season.

 

... I'm missing your point. That's why he passed his test. A couple weeks for anabolic steroids is more than enough time. Anabolic steroids don't stay in your system for a prolonged period of time.

 

 

 

Actually I think he'll be fine, he's already had a lot of distractions in his career and still flurished. I think this will be addressed in spring training, like with Pettite. The only negative will be when he's on the road. He's already scorned on the road anyway, so what's the difference?

 

That may be the case, but Orza said he didn't warn anyone and we have to believe him until he's proven that he's lying. It may suck but that's way our judicial system works.

[riverside sluggers]

Dont tell me that he's safe in his home park, because he is not. The Yankee fans get after him plenty

[YANKEESRULE]

Dont tell me that he's safe in his home park' date=' because he is not. The Yankee fans get after him plenty[/quote']

 

oh no i'm sure he'll hear it until he starts to produce then all will be forgiven and then he'll hit a slump then it will start again. We all do it whether your a Yankees, Red Sox, Royals, Dodgers, etc. fan!!!!!

[schillingouttheks]

That may be the case' date=' but Orza said he didn't warn anyone and we have to believe him until he's proven that he's lying. It may suck but that's way our judicial system works.[/quote']

 

If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and smells like a duck, it's a duck.

[rician blast]

It's like speeding in an automobile. Everybody does it' date=' but it's only a crime for those who get caught. All the speculation means nothing. It only matters for the unlucky ones named in an MLB report or if they are otherwise publicly exposed. But for this leak, the press, with the cooperation of MLB and the Players Union, would have been marketing a "clean" ARod as he broke every record.[/quote']

 

 

You're right, only those "caught" are "guilty" in MOST people's eyes...not mine. The stats and records and performances of virtually all MLB players are now tainted in my mind...I'm just not sure how far back this goes. In my opinion, there were probably some players using in the 1980's. s***, eastern Europeans Olympic weightlifters were accused of doping back in the 70's, so 'roids aren't some new phenomena.

 

I trust no one now. I hear people say "Griffey is clean" or "Jeter never used" and wonder how the f*** they know that?

 

Sorry, baseball stats and records are forever tainted, and personally I think a lot of guys are using stuff still that isn't or can't be detected. There is too much to gain for that not to be the case.

 

Edit: If one were to go to a hard core bodybuilding site, i.e. Anabolic Minds, one could purchase products not listed on MLB's banned substance list which have fairly significant anabolic properties. WIth the right "coaching," and continual monitoring of testosteroone levels in the blood, someone could manage their levels to fall within MLB's guidelines while gaining a competetive edge.

[ARod2212]

RED SOXS CONSIPRACY!!

********. It's a reporter who's able to dig up sealed, anonymous information on one out of 104 people. There's no reason for that to happen.

 

If they were worried about journalistic integrity, they'd get as many names off the list as they could. She's just trying to sell her book.

[Dipre]

********. It's a reporter who's able to dig up sealed, anonymous information on one out of 104 people. There's no reason for that to happen.

 

If they were worried about journalistic integrity, they'd get as many names off the list as they could. She's just trying to sell her book.

 

Someone needs some training on the age old art of picking up sarcasm over the interwebs.

[TheKilo]

********. It's a reporter who's able to dig up sealed, anonymous information on one out of 104 people. There's no reason for that to happen.

 

If they were worried about journalistic integrity, they'd get as many names off the list as they could. She's just trying to sell her book.

 

No you don't understand...if this happened to a Red Sox player you wouldn't have heard a thing about it.

[26 to 6]

Of course there's an issue of the other 103 names not coming out and the fact that this anonymous information was made public, but I don't really care. No Yankee fan should be more about that than the fact that our best player used steroids, for whoever brief or long a period. I'm still angry, I don't see those feelings subsiding anytime soon.

[26 to 6]

So what happens when one guy gets through the Hall of Fame election process, and then comes out and says he took steroids? In fact, I'm sure there's somebody in there already who probably used steroids at some point.

 

Selig is going to have to grant amnesty to the entire generation regarding steroids. They fostered the culture of drug use by looking the other way, now they have to deal with the consequences. They'll never get every name, and that's unfair to the people who gets outed, tarred, and feathered.

I think the Hall of Fame should consider adding a mark or branding of sorts to the plaques of players who used steroids. If a player who was proven to have used steroids gets inducted, add a notation of some kind to the plaque. And if a player who is already in, or gets inducted and is later proven to have used add the notation at that point. You could even take it a step further and include it for all players who broke or violated a rule, that way guys like Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose can get in, but still have their infractions recognized. Idk maybe a black plaque or some kind of mark. That's opening up Pandora's box though, and the Hall of Fame debate is a whole other conversation in itself. Just an idea to throw out there though.

[rician blast]

I don't think asterisks are necessary at all. This simply puts the HOF and records in a different perspective...let the fans make up their minds what it means. I do feel sorry for guys who never used and who's accomplishments pale in comparison to those who did use, to the extent that the difference in their performances were driven by PED use.

[a700hitter]

From Curt Schilling's blog he says that all 104 names should be made public:

 

http://38pitches.weei.com/

 

I agree with him. I had been thinking about full disclosure of the list before Schilling posted it on his blog. The Union should meet with the players and recommend a full disclosure of the list of offenders. If they do this in one fell swoop, the number of marginal players and non stars will probably overwhelm the number of star players. Listing all the names will have the effect of forcing the attention of the press to be dispersed. The stars that are caught up in this would not have the 24/7 coverage that ARod is getting. The fan and press focus will not be as intense for anyone star player. In a couple of Weeks or months, the conclusion will be that roid use was widespread. The stars did it as well as the bench warmers. If everyone was doing it, people will realize that the playing field was more level than they had thought. If the Union tries to suppress this information, the result will be a continuing circus where periodically a star's name will be leaked out.

 

This reminds me of when free agency was in its inception. At that time, Charlie Finley proposed that every player be a free agent every year. The other owners, who were hanging on to the ghost of the reserve clause opposed him, and the union was happy to agree to a limited number of free agents each year. The result was that the limited number of Free Agents drove up their value and inflated pay scales enormously. If each player had become a free agent every season, the economic principles of supply and demand would have been more effective at controlling pay scale growth. The owners were too stupid to realize that they were slitting their own throats by limiting FA.

 

Here the Union is stubbornly protecting this information. In reality what are they protecting? We all think that everyone was doing the stuff anyway. Releasing the information might have the effect of somewhat exonerating some players. The owners and the union should be looking to put this behind them. Periodic leaks of stars names will be no good for the Union, the players, or the owners.

[THE ARS]

You're right, only those "caught" are "guilty" in MOST people's eyes...not mine. The stats and records and performances of virtually all MLB players are now tainted in my mind...I'm just not sure how far back this goes. In my opinion, there were probably some players using in the 1980's. s***, eastern Europeans Olympic weightlifters were accused of doping back in the 70's, so 'roids aren't some new phenomena.

 

I trust no one now. I hear people say "Griffey is clean" or "Jeter never used" and wonder how the f*** they know that?

 

Sorry, baseball stats and records are forever tainted, and personally I think a lot of guys are using stuff still that isn't or can't be detected. There is too much to gain for that not to be the case.

 

Edit: If one were to go to a hard core bodybuilding site, i.e. Anabolic Minds, one could purchase products not listed on MLB's banned substance list which have fairly significant anabolic properties. WIth the right "coaching," and continual monitoring of testosteroone levels in the blood, someone could manage their levels to fall within MLB's guidelines while gaining a competetive edge.

 

Thank you, Rician.

 

Think about it, guys.

 

If you are a minor league player, you know the best hitter and the best pitcher are using steroids.

 

What would you do?

 

 

Tom

[SCM33]

Oh i'm fine,sir.

 

How's the gardening going?

 

 

 

I make a LOT MORE than you, seeing how you're unemployed and live from your daddy's allowance.........

 

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i204/drumsforever88/e-thug.jpg

[Keeper]

Thank you, Rician.

 

Think about it, guys.

 

If you are a minor league player, you know the best hitter and the best pitcher are using steroids.

 

What would you do?

 

 

Tom

 

A fair point, but it doesn't excuse the players who used. Two wrongs don't make a right. The end doesn't justify the means. Pick a proverb. They both apply. Nothing could be more fundamental.

 

I'm with 700hitter. The fans deserve full disclosure from the Union. Get it all out in the open, and then maybe you can get a clean slate. Protecting players now will only add fuel to the fire when more light is shed on the steroid era in the future.

[Ray10]

Really no surprise that he tested positive can't expect anything different.

[riverside sluggers]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9199590/A-Rod-huddled-with-Boras-amid-controversy

 

lol A-Rod is relying on advice from Madonna's manager

 

He went on a short trip to the Bahamas. From the WBC/spring training on, he and his team mates will be constantly asked about this

[rician blast]

A fair point, but it doesn't excuse the players who used. Two wrongs don't make a right. The end doesn't justify the means. Pick a proverb. They both apply. Nothing could be more fundamental.

 

I'm with 700hitter. The fans deserve full disclosure from the Union. Get it all out in the open, and then maybe you can get a clean slate. Protecting players now will only add fuel to the fire when more light is shed on the steroid era in the future.

 

Disclosure won't allow baseball to start with a clean slate. Disclosure of the other 103 will still leave out a hefty number of individuals who either flew under the radar despite being users or who just happened to cycle off before their test, or guys who simply weren't part of the random selection process (I'm assuming they didn't "survey" EVERY player).

 

You also can't have a clean slate when even now there are players using PEDs...the players and their handlers are getting smarter, there are labs creating new designer steroids, and there is stuff out there that is not on MLB's banned substance list.

 

Frankly I am not at all appalled at ARod's alleged usage. Put yourself in ARod's shoes:

 

Here you are, one of the most naturally gifted players the game has seen, multi-tool player, in a league that increasingly loves the long ball (I'll focus a lot on HRs, just to make a point):

 

In 1991, only 2 players hit 40 HRs, only 12 hit over 30.

In 1992, 2 hit over 40 and only 10 reached 30.

 

In 1993, while you are in the minors, in MLB 5 reached 40 HRs, a total of 22 hit 30+...and that list includes such "powers" as Ron Gant, Phil Plantier, Dean Palmer, Mickey Tettleton, R. Wilkins..and there are hints that some of these guys are using steroids.

 

In 1994, you're still in the minors during this strike shortened season where no one played more than 116 games...25 players were on pace to reach 30+ Hrs, many of them being those rumored to be using PEDs.

 

In 1995 you're almost ready to break in to the league, and here you are, KNOWING that your 10x better than many of MLB's sluggers...you see Albert f***ing Belle slug .690 with 50 HRs, the first 50 HR season in some time, Dante Bichette hits 40, Buhner hits 40, Palmeiro hits 39, 21 guys end up with 30+, christ even John Valentin hits 27, and you hear more whispers of 'roid use.

 

So you break in in 1996, want to make a splash, you've got an ego to start with, maybe you choose to use right away...or maybe your 36 Hrs as a rookie are legit...who knows. What you DO know is that your 36 HRs puts you around 23rd in MLB...23rd! f*** that, I'm not going to be outperformed by guys that can't hold my jock, guys like Ellis Burks, Todd Hundley, Caminiti, Vinnie Castilla, Dean Palmer, Jorge Berroa. Now you're in the bigs and you KNOW what these guys are doing to reach the heights they're reaching...so you consider doing it too.

 

In 1997, still knowing you have more talent than most, you only hit 23 Hrs, .300 Avg, 84 RBI's and you're not about to watch Nomar, or Raul Mondesi, or Chili Fkn Davis, Eric Karros, Matt Williams, Tony Clark, Burks, etc. outhit you. You're gonna get yours.

 

1998 you hit 42, 12th in MLB

1999 you hit 42

2000 you hit 41, but that isn't enoough...so you turn up the juice.

2001 you hit 52, and you're out-homered by Luis Gonzalez? f*** that!

2002 you hit 57

From 2003 to 2008 you go 47, 36, 59, 35, 54, 35.

 

You've got yours and you know that there are only 3 definites in life...death, taxes and steroids work really well.

 

While I'm speculating, it is not hard to imagine this playing out this way for ARod and for many other MLB players. Now, where exactly he started using? We can speculate on that, but I'm pretty sure it was before being caught in 2003.

 

Steroid and PED use in baseball is epidemic and contagious. There's a lot of ego involved and the financial rewards are too huge to forego. I understand why these guys do what they do and since they're not my role models, heroes or friends I don't really give a f***.

[BSN07]

Jose Canseco's attorney told The Post last night that not only does the Alex Rodriguez steroid report act as "substantial confirmation" of Canseco's past claims - but that there are going to be future revelations regarding Rodriguez and others. "According to Jose, there's a lot more that'll be forthcoming," Greg Emerson, Canseco's attorney, said. That claim, Emerson said, was with regard to A-Rod and others.

 

 

 

When the New York Yankees re-signed Alex Rodriguez in the fall of 2007, they envisioned the "clean" alternative to Barry Bonds - the knight in shining armor who would erase the stain of steroids from the all-time home run record, and they would bask in the glory of it with their brand, according to New York Daily News baseball columnist Bill Madden. Now that A-Rod's pursuit looks as counterfeit as Bonds', they should do what's best for the organization: Cut him loose -- no matter the cost. As difficult as it is to imagine eating $270 million, the Bombers will be making a statement, not just for the Yankee brand but for baseball as a whole. They will be applauded for it. The Yankees operate under two basic tenets: The relentless pursuit of championships and the fierce protection of their brand. If they are going to remain true to both, then they have no choice but to sever ties with Rodriguez. This winter the Yankees invested $423 million with the signings of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Mark Teixeira. All of that figures to be offset now by the reports that A-Rod was a steroid cheat. Everywhere the Yankees go this spring and into the season, they will be greeted by choruses of "A-Fraud!" and "A-Roid!" And if you think A-Rod wilted under the pressure of big games before, just imagine his delicate psyche now under the heightened scrutiny of the media and fans. Don't think for a minute that Derek Jeter and the rest of A-Rod's teammates are privately reveling in his exposure as a true phony, as some people are suggesting. This affects all of them, and their pursuit of championships is hindered by his being a constant source of unwanted turmoil.

 

LOL @ the thought if the Yanks trying to get rid of Arod. What team can afford him besides the Sox? Maybe LAD.

[Keeper]

I understand why these guys do what they do and since they're not my role models' date=' heroes or friends I don't really give a f***.[/i']

 

You obviously do give a f***, since you've given it so much thought. That's okay, though. Any baseball purist worth a damn should give a f***. Or fan, for that matter.

[jacksonianmarch]

but the problem is keeper, that the use is so prevalent and the detection is impossible that to single out one player is ridiculous. Trust me man, I played at a pretty high level of baseball. I didnt get drafted. But I played with a bunch of players who did and a few who have made MLB debuts. And I am still in contact with them to some degree. And I will tell you this. It is RAMPANT. Everyone IMO is a user. My friends are users. Its a sign of the times. Here, inject this into your ass and you might make it to the majors where you'll have health benefits and a MLB pension if you spend one day on the 25 man roster. Think about that. One day on the roster and you get money for the rest of your life and your health insurance is taken care of. Then imagine if you actually make an impact. Millions thrown your way.

[jacksonianmarch]

And if I didnt have something to fall back on in terms of medicine, I would have roided my balls off. It was easy to get. I was a pretty big guy in college. I got scouted pretty heavily after my junior season in college. If I roided in the offseason and came out hitting more moonshots, I would have had a shot. And I would have continued roiding, no doubt. The fact is, the majority of minor league and major league athletes dont have much to fall back on. If you dont make the bigs you dont have a name for yourself and all the time spent in the minors was wasted. You go from having a shot at being a household name to being a guy with nothing. Its an easy choice. ARod wasnt that guy, I know. He was a premier talent and he didnt have to do this. But he did and I dont blame him. He got the two richest contracts in baseball and the roids helped. If you could have the chance at making 550 million dollars, would you roid? I sure would.

[rician blast]

You obviously do give a f***' date=' since you've given it so much thought. That's okay, though. Any baseball purist worth a damn [i']should[/i] give a f***. Or fan, for that matter.

 

 

OK, let me be a little more clear...I don't give a f*** if these guys poison their bodies, s*** out their livers, etc. because they get what they've brought on themselves...and in terms of baseball's purity, I've known since the 80's that guys are cheating, so this is no revelation to me, not in the slightest..I'm numb to it, baseball has been impure in my eyes for 15 yrs or so. Spare me the "every fan should care crap" cuz I love the game, not the players.

 

As for the bulk of my post, my point was I DO understand why they do it, and to be honest if I were in the same position I might also.

[rician blast]

ARod wasnt that guy' date=' I know. He was a premier talent and he didnt have to do this. But he did and I dont blame him. He got the two richest contracts in baseball and the roids helped. If you could have the chance at making 550 million dollars, would you roid? I sure would.[/quote']

 

Amen, brother.

 

In terms of ARod, he didn't HAVE to do it, but then again, why should he have stats that might have put him as say the 25th best offensive player, despite being better than 95% of the league...and why should he sit, stastically, behind a bunch of juicers with less talent, when he could join them in their usage and be in the top 5?

 

I don't blame him at all. I dislike him...I'm kinda glad that if someone had to get exposed it was him...but I don't blame him for doing what he did. BTW, I KNOW Sox players have juiced as well...I don't blame them either.

[YANKEESRULE]

Really no surprise that he tested positive can't expect anything different.

 

Your full of s***! I think its funny everyone is damning A-rod for this (he deserves some of it, but not all of it). Now what is everyone gonna do when this list comes out and some of your precious Red Sox are on it.

 

Alls I can say is the list better come out now, because if there gonna just name him they need to name them all, because if not the whole accusation is suspect, from the sources to the reporters. Now Im not saying he didn't do it, but why just say him and why now. I heard this in XM and I wish I came up with this theory, but what if one of the so called sources is his ex-wife.

[Keeper]

Yes, the money would be incentive to do it. And the glory would be incentive to do it. I'm not saying the temptation isn't there because it is. But me personally, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror.

 

To me, the integrity of the game is far more important than contracts and prestige and sponsors and all that s***. Cheating, in any form, shouldn't be condoned. It should be condemned. Period.

[26 to 6]

At least he's not hiding and denying it. He admitted to Peter Gammons and ESPN that he did in fact use during his tenure in Texas. Starting in 2001 after he signed the contract until he got hurt in Spring training of 2003. He claims he stopped using after that. He claims that all of his time in New York he has been clean. I have no reason not to believe him, but of course the possibility exists that he isn't being 100% truthful.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3894847

 

Interview will air on Sportscenter at 6.