The Yankee Years

[26 to 6]

Keeping it real by calling ARod AFraud or by saying that he had developed a single-white female obsession with Jeter? This a beyond the pale of good taste. If he wanted to be critical' date=' he could have said that Arod is a lousy card player or that he can't sing or something. The stuff he said is scurrilous and undignified. It's obvious that you have Torre on a pedestal, but he doesn't deserve to be held with such reverence. He has revealed himself as a vindictive backstabber.[/quote']

What more do you know about the book other than the microscopic portions that have been exploited by the media in recent days? You have 2 things from the book, a book of 500+ pages, and you're already so judgemental towards Joe and the book. You don't know word for word what was written or the context in which it was written. Read the damn book when it comes out and then tell us your opinion of both the book and Torre. Have you even read the dozens of stories regarding the book and it's responses by all parties involved that have been published over the last few days, other than the initial story about the A-Rod stuff and his loss of trust in Cashman? SI posted an excerpt, go read it, it's well written and not in poor taste. You're judging the book by its cover, not it's contents.

[Dipre]

And as usual, some people take irrelevant s*** way too seriously before even having their facts straight and create a useless discussion that becomes a waste of time that could be better spent discussing the gratifying smell of Derek Jeter's new fragrance.......by Avon, of course.

[a700hitter]

What more do you know about the book other than the microscopic portions that have been exploited by the media in recent days? You have 2 things from the book' date=' a book of 500+ pages, and you're already so judgemental towards Joe and the book. You don't know word for word what was written or the context in which it was written. Read the damn book when it comes out and then tell us your opinion of both the book and Torre. Have you even read the dozens of stories regarding the book and it's responses by all parties involved that have been published over the last few days, other than the initial story about the A-Rod stuff and his loss of trust in Cashman? SI posted an excerpt, go read it, it's well written and not in poor taste. You're judging the book by its cover, not it's contents.[/quote']I realize that you are disturbed that the legendary Yankee manager has crashed and burned by fault of his own actions, but here is another report about the bitterness that he spewed in his book. You can keep him on your pedestal, but he is just bitter and vindictive.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9141768/Joe-Torre's-book-filled-with-bitterness

[Dipre]

I realize that you are disturbed that the legendary Yankee manager has crashed and burned by fault of his own actions, but here is another report about the bitterness that he spewed in his book. You can keep him on your pedestal, but he is just bitter and vindictive.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9141768/Joe-Torre's-book-filled-with-bitterness

 

Sir, have you read the book?

 

Because until you do, you're just wasting our time with your black-and-white comments, no offense meant, of course.

[a700hitter]

Sir, have you read the book?

 

Because until you do, you're just wasting our time with your black-and-white comments, no offense meant, of course.

I am just commenting on the information in the several articles written about the book. None of the articles paint Torre in a good light. Are you saying that the information in this article is wholly inaccurate or that each of the writers has an axe to grind with Torre?

[Dipre]

I am just commenting on the information in the several articles written about the book. None of the articles paint Torre in a good light. Are you saying that the information in this article is wholly inaccurate or that each of the writers has an axe to grind with Torre?

 

No, i'm saying that the few quotes that were taken from the book were MEANT to have this effect so the book would fly off shelves, and you, my friend, are a great example of what good marketing can accomplish on people.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' i'm saying that the few quotes that were taken from the book were MEANT to have this effect so the book would fly off shelves, and you, my friend, are a great example of what good marketing can accomplish on people.[/quote']I have no intention of buying or reading the book.

[Dipre]

I have no intention of buying or reading the book.

 

But you're creating discussion that might persuade some of the members of this message board to go ahead and buy it, thus, you're being used by the system.........,

[a700hitter]

But you're creating discussion that might persuade some of the members of this message board to go ahead and buy it' date=' thus, you're being used by the system.........,[/quote']Yes, I am sure that my posts will be responsible for several book sales.

[26 to 6]

Wow, you are too much my friend.

[a700hitter]

Wow' date=' you are too much my friend.[/quote']You do realize that the criticism of Torre is coming almost entirely from NY Sportswriters and commentators that covered him? Also, there is heavy criticism from the more mature Yankee fans on this forum who are old enough to remember other Yankee managers prior to Joe Torre. Me, i am just happy to see phony myths about the Yankees come crashing down. That just makes me happy.

[Dipre]

Wow' date=' you are too much my friend.[/quote']

 

Lol, i was just playing with the man.

 

But he's right about the whole "Yankee mystique" being torn asunder by Torre's book, that makes me smile.

[a700hitter]

Lol, i was just playing with the man.

 

But he's right about the whole "Yankee mystique" being torn asunder by Torre's book, that makes me smile.

Common ground! It is fun to see the two camps of Yankee fans on this. Those who realize that he betrayed his players and broke the clubhouse code which he lived by, and those who are so crushed by this hypocritical and selfish act that they have rushed to his defense and tried to focus their attention on Torre's alleged mistreatment by the FO. Legends die hard in the minds of those who believe them. I am enjoying every minute of it.

[26 to 6]

Look I agree that things should stay in the clubhouse, but this isn't the first book written by a coach/manager to air dirty laundry. and you act as if the entire book is a a slap in the face to the Yankees and his players, and all he's doing is talking s*** and airing dirty laundry. That's not the case. I still have the utmost respect for Torre despite all of this. Nobody's perfect, not even Torre lol. No matter what comes of this book, it can't take away 12 great years, 6 pennants, and 4 championships.

[a700hitter]

Look I agree that things should stay in the clubhouse' date=' but this isn't the first book written by a coach/manager to air dirty laundry. and you act as if the entire book is a a slap in the face to the Yankees and his players, and all he's doing is talking s*** and airing dirty laundry. That's not the case. I still have the utmost respect for Torre despite all of this. Nobody's perfect, not even Torre lol. No matter what comes of this book, it can't take away 12 great years, 6 pennants, and 4 championships.[/quote']

Which group do you fall into? Hmmmm? But I thought the myth was that Torre was the consummate professional, a respected father figure to his players, yada yada yada. According to the myth, he was better than those other guys who wrote books stabbing their friends in the back and telling tales out of school. Now, all of a sudden it's okay, because lots of other guys did it before him. According to the myth, he was better than those guys. Another myth that I used to find amusing was the myth about his calming influence and about how you couldn't tell from his demeanor whether his team was winning or losing. Of course, it's quite easy to maintain a calm demeanor when your team is winning all the time. In his last few years with the Skanks, he looked distressed quite a bit on the Yankee bench. Many times when they would show him in distress I would ask my son if he could tell whether the Yankees were winning or losing just by looking at Torre. Good times. I was calling him a push button manager long before any Yankee fans acknowledged it. He was considered a genius from 1996 to about 2002. The bloom started coming off his rose around 2003 as his push button tactics became obvious after the championships had stopped and he started burning out bullpens. He was never a genius. He was just fortunate enough to step into the job after Stick Michael and Buck Showalter had built a powerhouse. Buck being the tragic Greek figure quit in a huff before he could enjoy the fruits. Sadly for him the same thing happened in Arizona. Clueless Joe and the weasel Cashman became huge beneficiaries of the work done by their predecessors. They rode it to fame and fortune, but neither of them is tops in their field. They are both pretenders and it is they who are the frauds.

[CrespoBlows]

But you're creating discussion that might persuade some of the members of this message board to go ahead and buy it' date=' thus, you're being used by the system.........,[/quote']

 

Discussion on a topic of interest = being used by the system?

 

First of all, why is this wrong? Second of all, wouldn't this line of thinking extend to any topic of discussion? The chemical evolution conversation led me to go buy Cosmos. USED BY THE MAN! OWNED BY THE MAN! CAN'T ESCAPE FROM THE MAN!

[BSN07]

You do realize that the criticism of Torre is coming almost entirely from NY Sportswriters and commentators that covered him? Also' date=' there is heavy criticism from the more mature Yankee fans on this forum who are old enough to remember other Yankee managers prior to Joe Torre. Me, i am just happy to see phony myths about the Yankees come crashing down. That just makes me happy.[/quote']

 

See you point it out right there, it's a big deal in NY, everywhere else it's a story. That will be put to the side as soon as ST starts.

 

 

 

As far a Book sales goes, DiperG is right there with my thinking. I said before these stories where leaked on purpose to create buzz for the Book, And it has done a spectacular job. And even if 1 person buys a book because of the things you have said, then it is considered a win. Unless you on Torre's payroll:lol:

 

 

 

You can say what you want about him being a Yenta in Brooklyn, Torre doesn't care. Why should he? He's made millions, enough to support his family and his kids kids familys. He lives and works in LA now. I bet he couldn't give 2 flying you know whats about how the sportwriters and the players/FO of the Yankees feels about him.

 

We live in a different time a700. 30 years ago this probably wouldn't have happened. But 30 years ago there wasn't publisher's lined up to write your book either. No one cared about this crap 30 years ago, it was a different time, a different perspective, different ideals, only women gossiped, men didn't take part in that crap. Now we live in a culture of information. And alot of Men(including us here) have fallen right smack in the middle of the rumor/gossip world. And when you can provide inside details and inside perspective it's goiing to have a market. And if it has a market, someone is going to try and sell it. Trying to deny it is pointless.

[a700hitter]

You can say what you want about him being a Yenta in Brooklyn' date=' Torre doesn't care. Why should he? He's made millions, enough to support his family and his kids kids familys. He lives and works in LA now. I bet he couldn't give 2 flying you know whats about how the sportwriters and the players/FO of the Yankees feels about him. [/quote']Just because something makes you a lot of money doesn't make it right. He should care that he has sacrificed a very lucrative source of future income from the Yanks for personal appearances. No matter how much he has, he still wants more.

 

We live in a different time a700. 30 years ago this probably wouldn't have happened. But 30 years ago there wasn't publisher's lined up to write your book either. No one cared about this crap 30 years ago' date=' it was a different time, a different perspective, different ideals, only women gossiped, men didn't take part in that crap. Now we live in a culture of information.[/quote']Sure publishers would have jumped at it. Ball Four by Jim Bouton was a huge best seller, but he became a baseball pariah. Publisher have always lined up to print scandalous information.

And when you can provide inside details and inside perspective it's goiing to have a market. And if it has a market' date=' [u']someone[/u] is going to try and sell it. Trying to deny it is pointless.

The question has never been whether there is or has been a market for this garbage. There is and always has been a market for scandalous information. How do you come to the conclusion that I am trying to deny that there is a market for this type of material? You are way off the mark. The issue is whether there has been a breach of trust. The issue is whether this action is antithetical to the image that Torre and the press cultivated for him for 12 years. The issue is whether this damages his image.

[BSN07]

The issue is whether this action is antithetical to the image that Torre and the press cultivated for him for 12 years. The issue is whether this damages his image.

 

Sorry, I got going and went off topic. What I am getting at is this will not damage his image. It will be a cliff note in years to come.

 

 

The Yanks have already hinted at what Torre can expect from them.... nothing. Hence the be left out of the Yankees big video montage. If they decided not include him then, can he really count on future events with the Yanks:dunno:

[a700hitter]

The Yanks have already hinted at what Torre can expect from them.... nothing. Hence the be left out of the Yankees big video montage. If they decided not include him then, can he really count on future events with the Yanks:dunno:

This is certainly not going to aid any reconciliation between the Yanks and Torre. I think it has closed that door for good. He did it to himself. He acted like a petulant child during his last salary negotiation and he followed up with insults in a book. His exit was not at all graceful.

[Keeper]

Few exits ever are graceful. When the FO is breathing down your neck and spoiled Yankee fans want your head to roll, you're probably not going to go out on your own terms.

 

Unless Tito decides he wants early retirement, his exit probably won't be graceful either.

[Dipre]

Lol' date=' i was just playing with the man.[/b']

 

But he's right about the whole "Yankee mystique" being torn asunder by Torre's book, that makes me smile.

 

Discussion on a topic of interest = being used by the system?

 

First of all, why is this wrong? Second of all, wouldn't this line of thinking extend to any topic of discussion? The chemical evolution conversation led me to go buy Cosmos. USED BY THE MAN! OWNED BY THE MAN! CAN'T ESCAPE FROM THE MAN!

 

Reading is cool..........

[26 to 6]

After seeing more and more of the details surface this really is beginning to make Joe look awful. But like I've said to others, I need to wait and read the book before forming a full opinion. It's not looking good so far though...

[jacksonianmarch]

Few exits ever are graceful. When the FO is breathing down your neck and spoiled Yankee fans want your head to roll, you're probably not going to go out on your own terms.

 

Unless Tito decides he wants early retirement, his exit probably won't be graceful either.

 

Exactly, but I dont expect him to write a tell all book about how theo betrayed him and his players and how David Ortiz is a prima donna.

[BSN07]

Exactly' date=' but I dont expect him to write a tell all book about how theo betrayed him and his players and how David Ortiz is a prima donna.[/quote']

 

But could you see him writing a book about everyday life with Manny?

[a700hitter]

After seeing more and more of the details surface this really is beginning to make Joe look awful. But like I've said to others' date=' I need to wait and read the book before forming a full opinion. It's not looking good so far though...[/quote']Reality is starting to set in.

[a700hitter]

The last paragraph of this article is interesting. Yankee fans on this forum have claimed that the 2000 team went into cruise control in September when they almost blew their entire lead. Torre's book suggests that maybe they were drying out from roids in September and got a new supply for the playoffs.

 

"You had two guys from New York doing all the talking in the Mitchell Report," Torre said. "That's why you have more information on New York players. If people want to devalue the 2000 team, is that how we lost 15 out of 18 down the stretch? We dried ourselves out and then got a heavy dose for the postseason? One thing I've learned is that people are going to feel the way they're going to feel, regardless of what happened."

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2009/01/27/2009-01-27_in_the_yankee_years_david_cone_spills_ju.html

[TheKilo]

I think that quote has a heavy dose of sarcasm associated with it.

[a700hitter]

I think that quote has a heavy dose of sarcasm associated with it.

I realize that it does, but I had never before heard or read anything making that connection. Even though he was being sarcastic, his sarcasm seems to be directed at some criticism he perceives regarding the 2000 team. I had never heard that criticism.

[ARod2212]

I don't understand how he can write this book while still a manager. How are the players in LA going to trust the guy?